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  1. #51

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    ragman1
    you play beginer staff and you try to coment all new takes...what for...?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris View Post
    ragman1
    you play beginner stuff and you try to comment all new takes...what for...?
    To know that, you'd have to be me, Kris. And you're not :-)

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyppolyte Bergamotte View Post
    still a few years of work Ragman 1,and that will be all right
    HB
    Thanks for your like.

    The thing is that I'm not actually trying to play that kind of jazz. I went through a period of playing, spider-like, the stream of 8ths across the board and, frankly, got bored with it. It felt mechanical and, to be honest, I don't think I was ever going to be that good at it. It was okay but...

    So one day I threw it up and just played as I felt and heard it. Liberation! And that has become my style for better or worse. So I don't think a few more years will make a lot of difference!

    But it's still jazz as far as I'm concerned, just not the kind of jazz most people like, want, or are probably expecting. I use all the same scales, licks and tricks as everybody else, of course, and I have to say I know them pretty thoroughly. As other posts of mine amply demonstrate, I hope.

    Anyway, that's the explanation. They do say one should find one's voice and I think I probably have. And if no one likes it, well, I guess that's the cross I have to bear :-)

  5. #54

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    It is still the same here every new standard thread here...
    Ragman 1 made a lot of beginers versions and dominate every time.
    and he really like do it...
    ragman 1 are you looking for coments about your playing?

  6. #55

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    more climatic take on my new Telecaster:
    https://app.box.com/s/v5coth5sbaol932bagzmcbfobz80al6q

  7. #56

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    Very nice kris, love the sustain on your tele. The chords remind me of Ed Bickert!

  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by kris View Post
    more climatic take on my new Telecaster:
    https://app.box.com/s/v5coth5sbaol932bagzmcbfobz80al6q
    Very nice. Live take with bass and drums?

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Very nice. Live take with bass and drums?
    backing track from Aebersold-without the piano.
    Thanks
    Kris

  10. #59

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    "Tenderly on tele"

    That is really beautifull, Kris!
    Beautifull tone and playing.
    That is quit some sustain this tele has. What kind of Tele?
    Do you use a compressor?

    Hans

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatim View Post
    "Tenderly on tele"

    That is really beautifull, Kris!
    Beautifull tone and playing.
    That is quit some sustain this tele has. What kind of Tele?
    Do you use a compressor?

    Hans
    Hello Hans,
    This is a Hamadyk Telecaster-hand made special order with humbucker at the neck/push-pull pot for single mode/. I use a tube 8 watt combo directly to the computer.
    I do not use compressor.
    Thanks for nice coment...:-)
    Best
    Kris

  12. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by kris View Post
    backing track from Aebersold-without the piano.
    Thanks
    Kris
    Ok. Very cool. I enjoyed this very much. Great job of playing with the other "players". :-)

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Ok. Very cool. I enjoyed this very much. Great job of playing with the other "players". :-)
    Thanks a lot Matt,
    All The Best
    Kris

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Very nice kris, love the sustain on your tele. The chords remind me of Ed Bickert!
    Thanks a lot for nice coment.
    Best
    Kris

  15. #64

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    lol

    knock it off guys you’re both awesome
    White belt
    My Youtube

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris View Post
    more climatic take on my new Telecaster:
    https://app.box.com/s/v5coth5sbaol932bagzmcbfobz80al6q
    Really nice Kris.

    After listening to it a couple times I can see that what I've been working on needs more open space. Thanks again for providing great examples. (Lessons)

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Honestly not being a shitstarter-- Ragman, how would you say the concept here is different from your first three, other than that this one seems a bit more "in tempo?'
    looks like a little faster beginner player...
    but still two choruses of solo...no coments.

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramps View Post
    Really nice Kris.

    After listening to it a couple times I can see that what I've been working on needs more open space. Thanks again for providing great examples. (Lessons)
    Thanks Gramps
    Jazzingly Yours
    Kris

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaichen1 View Post
    ...
    It's probably this PC at fault, but I wanted to hear your improv' better, relative to guitar 1.

  20. #69

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    Very slow tempo Tenderly:


  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Honestly not being a shitstarter-- Ragman, how would you say the concept here is different from your first three, other than that this one seems a bit more "in tempo?'
    Fair question.

    Well, first, I do single note over a chordal backing. In that respect I admit they can sound similar. However, the tune is the tune so we're stuck with that somewhat.

    Second, although there are versions on the net that play it much more quickly, I see it as a slow tune, so that's not going to change much.

    The first one was in Eb. I found the changes on the first outing fairly tricky but thought I'd basically got it.

    The second one was in C. That gave me greater scope on the neck, as I said. But I agree, they're not vastly dissimilar.

    The third one had a completely different backing, very clunky. I had the idea myself and then found a Miles Davis version that did the same... which was quite interesting.

    https://www.youtube.....com/watch?v=ISnrLn4LnZs

    Rhythmically, of course, this one's quite different. It's faster and the bass predominates. I was also using different scales, or using them in a different way, a lot sparser. So I'd say that was a 'concept shift', if you want to put it that way.

    The last one's about the same speed as the first two although the rhythm's different. It's not as smooth as the other two. It's also played completely differently. It's far more outside and syncopated, including the two heads.

    So maybe none of them are that completely different, except for No. 3, but they certainly represent different takes, different keys, and different mindsets at the time. And I think it shows, enough to want to post them anyway.

    You did ask :-)

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    knock it off guys you’re both awesome
    No, I am awesome, he wants to be awesome

    don't take me too seriously :-)

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    No, I am awesome, he wants to be awesome

    don't take me too seriously :-)
    he...who?

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Fair question.

    Well, first, I do single note over a chordal backing. In that respect I admit they can sound similar. However, the tune is the tune so we're stuck with that somewhat.

    Second, although there are versions on the net that play it much more quickly, I see it as a slow tune, so that's not going to change much.

    The first one was in Eb. I found the changes on the first outing fairly tricky but thought I'd basically got it.

    The second one was in C. That gave me greater scope on the neck, as I said. But I agree, they're not vastly dissimilar.

    The third one had a completely different backing, very clunky. I had the idea myself and then found a Miles Davis version that did the same... which was quite interesting.

    https://www.youtube.....com/watch?v=ISnrLn4LnZs

    Rhythmically, of course, this one's quite different. It's faster and the bass predominates. I was also using different scales, or using them in a different way, a lot sparser. So I'd say that was a 'concept shift', if you want to put it that way.

    The last one's about the same speed as the first two although the rhythm's different. It's not as smooth as the other two. It's also played completely differently. It's far more outside and syncopated, including the two heads.

    So maybe none of them are that completely different, except for No. 3, but they certainly represent different takes, different keys, and different mindsets at the time. And I think it shows, enough to want to post them anyway.

    You did ask :-)
    I think you do not understand "Fair question".
    Not keys,not backing are important.Most important in jazz is improvisation...solos.
    I hear a lot of not controled outs in your solos...do you hear them?
    May be this help...

  25. #74

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    I think Rag's general approach is a pretty good one. It reminds me of something Peter Bernstein said that changed the way I prepare to solo on a tune. I'll paraphrase, and also keep in mind I could have I missed his point lol.

    Essentially, if you have the time for this approach (I think he says few do), just play the tune to death. Start with it as written, play it all over the fingerboard until you're so bored you can't stand it. You'll naturally start adding flourishes, which lead to replacing melody notes, which eventually leads to a solo.

    If you have a month to work on one tune it's a pretty cool process. Music students or pros generally wouldn't have that sort of time I guess

    Rags, not sure if that's what you do, but your take after take made me think of it
    White belt
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  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris View Post
    I hear a lot of not controled outs in your solos...do you hear them?
    Sometimes, but I won't sacrifice what is otherwise a good solo for a note here or there.

    For instance, there is one note in No.4 which is really awful. I reckon too bad, that's live music for you.

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    play the tune to death. Start with it as written, play it all over the fingerboard until you're so bored you can't stand it. You'll naturally start adding flourishes, which lead to replacing melody notes, which eventually leads to a solo
    Done all that a hundred times. In fact, I do it naturally, it comes naturally.

    But I wouldn't say it led to a solo, though. I think if you're starting out then it can sort of push you in that direction. After that, if you know what you're doing, it becomes restrictive and you'll inevitably branch out. Then it's not so much the tune-as-a-framework that becomes the solo but the mood and structure, harmonic and rhythmic, which guides.

    I mean, put on some pro recordings and see which of them really sound like the melody when they solo. Not many, that's for sure.

    But as a kick-off idea, sure, why not? But I'd say don't get too trapped by it. Formulas work only partially.

  28. #77

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    I work totally different.
    When I cheque my recorded take and one or two notes I do not like I cancel all my recorded track.
    Also I control my solos...I mean I try to build my solo not just play right notes.
    how to build the solo? it is a good question.Special in jazz music.
    To play a good solo is a very hard work.

  29. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post

    I mean, put on some pro recordings and see which of them really sound like the melody when they solo. Not many, that's for sure.
    I don’t know about that man. I think a lot of the greats had the melody going through their head as they solo. You can tell by small hints they drop almost to remind you of the fact. rhythmic motifs sometimes. for some reason the first one to come to mnd is Sony Rollins. If you sing the melody aloud or in your head during his solos on sax colossus you can hear how it lines up in bits and pieces.

    Or some solos always fit the lyrics no matter how far from the tune. Ben webster or chet baker come to mind
    White belt
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  30. #79

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    remember my point wasn’t that the solo sounds like the tune, but that it starts as the tune and becomes flourish on top of flourish until it grows into somehing else
    White belt
    My Youtube

  31. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    I don’t know about that man. I think a lot of the greats had the melody going through their head as they solo. You can tell by small hints they drop almost to remind you of the fact. rhythmic motifs sometimes. for some reason the first one to come to mnd is Sony Rollins. If you sing the melody aloud or in your head during his solos on sax colossus you can hear how it lines up in bits and pieces.

    Or some solos always fit the lyrics no matter how far from the tune. Ben webster or chet baker come to mind
    Giant Steps- John Coltrane

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    remember my point wasn’t that the solo sounds like the tune, but that it starts as the tune and becomes flourish on top of flourish until it grows into somehing else
    melody and chord progressions...
    You can not improvise if you know only melody.

  33. #82

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    alright cool i’ll shutup now
    White belt
    My Youtube

  34. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris View Post
    melody and chord progressions...
    You can not improvise if you know only melody.
    I wonder if this is true? I have no way of knowing personally, but I'm wondering if some players (probably pretty old school pre-bop horn players) learned in a purely melodic way?

  35. #84

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    BTW, the suggestion made by Joe is exactly the way Peter Bernstein teaches improvisation... Lee Konitz too IIRC.

    EDIT: lol I just scrolled up. Seems people are quite dismissive of Peter's ideas. Ah well, their loss.

    Guitarists are terrible for fixating on the chords at the expense of the melody. I know I am.

    TBF Peter is teaching players at a high level who have already mastered changes playing, but I do sometimes wonder what one could achieve by developing the ear and embellishing and improvising melodies rather than focussing expressions of the chords.

    Sure you wouldn't be able to roast Giant Steps, but the only people who care about that are other jazz musicians.

  36. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    alright cool i’ll shutup now
    I was with you Joe! It makes total sense to me what you're saying.

  37. #86

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    thanks guys, I don't have the confidence to debate a pro musician lol.

    I did have one more piece of info: In Monk's biography he reportedly said he doesn't like to always tell the horn players what the chords are because "they sound sad"

    supports Christian's comment about old school players
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  38. #87

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    People care far too much about the chords. They are only there to support the melody.

    (Well, in the case of tunes written as songs...)

  39. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10 View Post
    I was with you Joe! It makes total sense to me what you're saying.
    Joe - "I don’t know about that man. I think a lot of the greats had the melody going through their head as they solo. You can tell by small hints they drop almost to remind you of the fact. rhythmic motifs sometimes. for some reason the first one to come to mnd is Sony Rollins. If you sing the melody aloud or in your head during his solos on sax colossus you can hear how it lines up in bits and pieces.
    Or some solos always fit the lyrics no matter how far from the tune. Ben webster or chet baker come to mind"

    I think your observation about "I think a lot of the greats had the melody going through their head as they solo." is probably accurate and no matter how far "out" they take their solo they can drop right into the melody at any time. They at least knew where they are in the changes of the song.

    Paul - Are you doing a CM thread this month or just joining this one? I have a CM version worked out for Tenderly but am still working on a solo and will just submit it here.

  40. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramps View Post
    Paul - Are you doing a CM thread this month or just joining this one? I have a CM version worked out for Tenderly but am still working on a solo and will just submit it here.

    Hi Gramps,

    I enjoy reading these threads but I'm just a lurker here!

    The plan had been to go ahead and use Tenderly as the next solo guitar CM thread as well as it was #2 in our poll. This thread here seems more dedicated to improv than the solo guitar thread. I'd suggest posting in both threads as it will be applicable to both (if that's not against a rule of some kind

    The solo guitar thread has been sputtering in recent days. Although we were thinking of a new thread each month on the "ides", it may be time to get the new thread going.

    Sorry to everyone for sidetracking this thread!!

  41. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    supports Christian's comment about old school players
    I like Peter Bernstein’s approach to this, I know exactly what you mean Joe. He says don’t throw away the melody and forget it because you can’t wait to display all your clever stuff in your solo; instead use the melody to work from, at least for the first chorus or so.

    I like it because if nothing else, it gives you a defined set of notes to work on, maybe generate some fresh ideas from that limitation. He talks about it here:


  42. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10 View Post
    Hi Gramps,

    I enjoy reading these threads but I'm just a lurker here!

    The plan had been to go ahead and use Tenderly as the next solo guitar CM thread as well as it was #2 in our poll. This thread here seems more dedicated to improv than the solo guitar thread. I'd suggest posting in both threads as it will be applicable to both (if that's not against a rule of some kind

    The solo guitar thread has been sputtering in recent days. Although we were thinking of a new thread each month on the "ides", it may be time to get the new thread going.

    Sorry to everyone for sidetracking this thread!!
    I say go ahead ‘cos then I can dump my solo Tenderly straight into the other thread too, for once I will be ahead of the field!

  43. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    I say go ahead ‘cos then I can dump my solo Tenderly straight into the other thread too, for once I will be ahead of the field!
    Sounds like a great idea!!

  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    I say go ahead ‘cos then I can dump my solo Tenderly straight into the other thread too, for once I will be ahead of the field!
    Well at least someone's got time to do one :-(

    It's :-) really, but I don't have a lot of time to just play at the minute.

  45. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulW10 View Post
    Hi Gramps,

    I enjoy reading these threads but I'm just a lurker here!

    The plan had been to go ahead and use Tenderly as the next solo guitar CM thread as well as it was #2 in our poll. This thread here seems more dedicated to improv than the solo guitar thread. I'd suggest posting in both threads as it will be applicable to both (if that's not against a rule of some kind

    The solo guitar thread has been sputtering in recent days. Although we were thinking of a new thread each month on the "ides", it may be time to get the new thread going.

    Sorry to everyone for sidetracking this thread!!
    Every month I tell myself "Wait, you still have work to do on the last 3 songs you learned. You should should delve into them some more" but then another song thread comes along and I think "This is a cool song. I should take advantage of the opportunity to learn it."

    I'll post in both and if I'm out of line I have no doubt some one will set me straight. I can always go back to the last 3 or 4 songs and digest them a bit more later.

  46. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    remember my point wasn’t that the solo sounds like the tune, but that it starts as the tune and becomes flourish on top of flourish until it grows into somehing else
    sure, I agree--but see above. I'm talking about a process not a result
    White belt
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  47. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris View Post
    When I cheque my recorded take and one or two notes I do not like I cancel all my recorded track.
    Me too. I throw away much more than I post. But for the sake of a note or two? Not worth it.

    These two should have definitely scrapped this. The ghastly clashing! OMG!!


  48. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    sure, I agree--but see above. I'm talking about a process not a result
    Not sure who you're talking to here

    Well, whether it's for me or not, absolutely right. You can do that, start with the tune, build on it, do fills, maybe branch out a little, change a line here and there... and so on.

    But it's a formula, that's the trouble. Sorry, I'm repeating. Do you see that formulas are limiting, restricting?

    (Oh, by the way, argue as much as you like whether they're 'pros' or not. Don't be dumbed down, and don't dumb yourself down either. A decent player will hear you and answer you. We all had to start somewhere - so speak!)

  49. #98

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    Kris, I really enjoyed your last version, very tasteful.

    Here's my contribution in 3/4 -



    Paul

  50. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulD View Post
    Kris, I really enjoyed your last version, very tasteful.

    Here's my contribution in 3/4 -



    Paul
    Hi Paul,
    Thanks.
    Your take in 3/4 is really nice and very optimistic.
    Fantastic jazz sounding Tele in your hands.
    You have a big jazz vacabulary and every note is clean for me.
    Perfect single line solo with great jazz feel.
    You are my nr 1 .
    You just play without any philosophy.
    Jazzingly Yours
    Kris

  51. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Me too. I throw away much more than I post. But for the sake of a note or two? Not worth it.

    These two should have definitely scrapped this. The ghastly clashing! OMG!!

    I/ve got this Cd about 20 years ago.
    Great legendary players!
    Good material for transcribing solos...:-)