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  1. #26

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    I never think about scales really. Mainly I just think of melodic ideas based around the chords, after all these years I seem to be able to do this largely by ear, I don’t even know what notes I’m playing most of the time.

    If I get a bit stuck on a tricky chord change, I just pick out the chord tones and build some ideas off that.

    If I’m playing solo guitar, I’ll tend to play more using lines constructed around the actual chord shapes, it seems to make things easier for integrating chords and lines.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    I didn't think scales either, at first. I was just doing something with Abm6 over the m7b5 and maybe a b9 over the dom.

    Worked perfectly well till I realised that those two chords were in Eb harm. As I said, that gives the nat D. I probably wouldn't have used that otherwise but it does actually give a different flavour to it... hence my post. That's all really :-)

  4. #28

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    There are different chord changes for this tune...

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    There are different chord changes for this tune...
    For this part of the tune I've only seen Db9 instead of Fm7b5 - which I'd still play basically as Abm6. (No one is going to play Gb major).

    Elsewhere the main difference is in the second bar where Bb7+ has become Ab7. Do you know of any others?

  6. #30

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    9-12 bars
    Aebersold version:
    Abmin /Bb7/Abmin/Dmin7b5 G7+9/

    another version;
    Fmin7b5/Bb7/Fmin7b5/Bb7 Bdim/

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    People care far too much about the chords. They are only there to support the melody.

    (Well, in the case of tunes written as songs...)
    Melody and chord changes are very important.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I never think about scales really. Mainly I just think of melodic ideas based around the chords, after all these years I seem to be able to do this largely by ear, I don’t even know what notes I’m playing most of the time.

    If I get a bit stuck on a tricky chord change, I just pick out the chord tones and build some ideas off that.

    If I’m playing solo guitar, I’ll tend to play more using lines constructed around the actual chord shapes, it seems to make things easier for integrating chords and lines.
    The best way for me is transcribing solos of masters and analyse what they play.
    It takes a years of work.You play what you learn.
    Scof,Stern and others doing that all the time.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    9-12 bars
    Aebersold version:
    Abmin /Bb7/Abmin/Dmin7b5 G7+9/

    another version;
    Fmin7b5/Bb7/Fmin7b5/Bb7 Bdim/
    I don’t really see that as different. The voice leading is very similar. Basically b6-5. And then move to relative minor with a #5.

    (And Barry Harris people may note the sub Bb7 Bo7 for Dm7b5 G7, and the whole progression is an expression of maj6-dim.)

    What’s different is the bass you choose to use. But if you aren’t playing in a group with a bass player that decision should be made by you based on what makes a good counterpoint to the melody.
    Last edited by christianm77; 03-11-2018 at 05:27 AM.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    9-12 bars
    Aebersold version:
    Abmin /Bb7/Abmin/Dmin7b5 G7+9
    Thanks... so really it's all much the same (your second version is my first one).

    Melody and chord changes are very important.
    Of course they are. I am not of the school that just sort of 'plays something' and then obfuscates when asked about it, like they just pulled something out of a hat. All players know exactly what they're playing otherwise they couldn't do it. Even if they make mistakes and then cover them.

    The best way for me is transcribing solos of masters and analyse what they play.
    I used to do that until I realised they weren't doing anything particularly different, just the normal stuff. But it was the way they did it, their style or fluency that made it attractive. I'd go looking for the magic secret... and find there wasn't one.

    At least, I haven't found one yet unless it's practice and thoughtfulness :-)

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    Melody and chord changes are very important.
    Perhaps I should be more specific. People often analyse things from the point of view of chord symbols. Harmony isn’t chord symbols, chord symbols are just a simplification.

    A good standards player will understand the voice leading encoded into the chord symbol if they can’t just hear the harmony intuitively.

    Again this is one of those things that is much easier I think to appreciate on a piano keyboard than the fretboard. Coupled with the fact that the piano is often the first choice for harmonic instrument so get to play this material lots and lots on gigs, it’s easy to see why pianists are far and away better at this stuff then the vast majority of guitar players. It’s not our fault! )

    Unfortunately I think sometimes chord symbols become the basis of theory and jazz education and you can’t half hear it in people’s playing (i hear it mine.) I think the melody oriented approach acts as a useful corrective to this.

    Ideally we would play the chords we play not because the chord symbol says play Fm7b5 but because we know from the melody there is Cb in the key of Eb. (If you are looking at things through CST prism you can link that into a chord scale organisation of course.)

    In fact one thing about the melody of Tenderly is just how much it says about the harmony. It’s very descriptive, not all vocal standards are, in fact.

    So melody often gives you the harmony.
    Notice that a really important feature of the tune is this b6-5 motif. Also b3-2.

    Not true for all standards but very true for this one I think.
    Last edited by christianm77; 03-11-2018 at 05:30 AM.

  12. #36

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    one of the versions:
    March 2018 - Tenderly-tenderly-1-jpg

  13. #37

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    Quite, which is why, when I hear the melody for bars 9-12, I think ivm - V. So it doesn't matter whether it's played Abm, or Abm6, or Fm9, or Fm7b5 to Bb7, it's all the same.

  14. #38

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    Daylight savings time sucks. Kids were up way too early, but I like this tune, so I tried a little something...tenderly.



    As far as concept, if anyone's interested I'll explain, but it's pretty generic...I thought of chords, I thought of subs, I thought of the notes in those chords, practiced the tune a few times, then hit record.

    Btw, this tune has really pretty, non cheeseball lyrics for a standard. No pug nosed dreams stuck like kittens in a tree here.

    Oh, and comments and suggestions are fine.
    Last edited by mr. beaumont; 03-11-2018 at 10:27 AM.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    comments and suggestions are fine.
    Masterful.

    I wish that had been recorded for a CD, really.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Masterful.

    I wish that had been recorded for a CD, really.
    ....CD - but with singing jazz baby,

  17. #41

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    I think that Tenderly it is not so easy to improvise.
    To play the head is not the problem.

  18. #42

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    This is my favortite take from youtube.I have to transcribe this solo of Cifford Brown:


  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    I think that Tenderly it is not so easy to improvise.
    To play the head is not the problem.
    If I had to pin it down, these are my trouble spots in terms of changes running:

    Ebmaj7 --> Ab7#11
    Ab7 --> Fm7
    And the last 8 is tricky

  20. #44

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    Very nice classical guitar take of bossa artist Luiz Bonfa/Manha de carnaval/.


  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Daylight savings time sucks. Kids were up way too early, but I like this tune, so I tried a little something...tenderly.



    As far as concept, if anyone's interested I'll explain, but it's pretty generic...I thought of chords, I thought of subs, I thought of the notes in those chords, practiced the tune a few times, then hit record.

    Btw, this tune has really pretty, non cheeseball lyrics for a standard. No pug nosed dreams stuck like kittens in a tree here.

    Oh, and comments and suggestions are fine.
    Mr B.
    Splendid sir. My only suggestion is that you keep doing more of these.. You are awesome bro.
    Joe D

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    If I had to pin it down, these are my trouble spots in terms of changes running:

    Ebmaj7 --> Ab7#11
    Ab7 --> Fm7
    And the last 8 is tricky
    I wonder if you could get away with playing this like a I-VI7-ii7-V7-I

    Eb-Ab7-Fm7-Db7-Eb

  23. #47

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    or a I-biiidim- ii7-V7-I

    to be slightly more in

  24. #48

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    Some nice single lines from Tal Farlow:


  25. #49

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    This tune has some harmonic similarities with Four

  26. #50

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    Four... first bars similarity.
    March 2018 - Tenderly-four-part-jpg
    Last edited by kris; 03-14-2018 at 12:01 AM.