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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    taking the vanilla changes and building stuff on that
    Yes, at first glance that seems a nice option. I can see issues with it though, as you say.

    the more you know and the more you can hear the less confusion there is
    Sure, but you've really got to know your stuff to sort out the wheat from the chaff. I mean, a lot of folks just want to know what the chords are and throwing ten different versions in the air looks highly confusing. Even I find myself asking 'Are these good changes or their reharm of them?'. And it can be very confusing, let's be honest!

    Going back to our current tune, it seems the basic idea is E7 Am D7 G7 but a little research shows many, many players are doing the Bm Bbm chromatic thing. That must be terribly confusing for certain people, and I don't exclude myself. I mean, we're already into 2 pages on this right here!

    So Joe's harmony of the tune starts on the m7b5?
    His harmony of the chorus, yes. He does an intro too. It's the Virtuoso 4 version.

    (Your dropbox thing swings along nicely at the end )
    Last edited by ragman1; 12-03-2016 at 10:45 AM.

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzthebee View Post

    My goal with a reharm is to let the melody remain unchanged, but still have a progression that is vaguely logical.
    You did what I did on my initial effort, basically put it into the relative minor. Seems to work most of the time anyway and it opens up improv ideas.

    I did that with my Summertime rehash too, I believe.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Yes, at first glance that seems a nice option. I can see issues with it though, as you say.



    Sure, but you've really got to know your stuff to sort out the wheat from the chaff. I mean, a lot of folks just want to know what the chords are and throwing ten different versions in the air looks highly confusing. Even I find myself asking 'Are these good changes or their reharm of them?'. And it can be very confusing, let's be honest!

    Going back to our current tune, it seems the basic idea is E7 Am D7 G7 but a little research shows many, many players are doing the Bm Bbm chromatic thing. That must be terribly confusing for certain people, and I don't exclude myself. I mean, we're already into 2 pages on this right here!



    His harmony of the chorus, yes. He does an intro too. It's the Virtuoso 4 version.

    (Your dropbox thing swings along nicely at the end )
    Thanks! I think the direction I am taking with chords is more melody down, but also I am obsessed with bass lines. If you can get a good bass line and a good melody, the rest will take care of itself. Obviously bass lines in steps with occasional jumps are the traditional way to do it.

    On the other hand, grabbing a random chord under a melody note can be fun too.

    I'm thinking in general, I'm thinking more in terms of contrary, parallel and similar motion, diatonic, chromatic and modal interchange more that 'here's a chord x'

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    If you can get a good bass line and a good melody, the rest will take care of itself.
    A lot of players say that about arranging chord melodies, I think. Top note and bass, then fill in the rest. And motion is definitely good, no question.
    Last edited by ragman1; 12-03-2016 at 01:58 PM.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    ... His harmony of the chorus, yes. He does an intro too. It's the Virtuoso 4 version.
    I'm not very much of a reader and I haven't listened to Joe's (Pass) version, but as far as I could tell from the notation on the link you provided couple posts above, he starts chorus with CM7 A13 over melody notes B C A ...
    with Bm7b5, E7#5#9,, Am7, Eb7 played on each beat of the 3rd meassure over melody notes D E C ...


    Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube
    Last edited by Vladan; 12-03-2016 at 02:33 PM.
    ^ ^ ^
    <<< My BlogSpot Page >>>
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  7. #56

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    I think I'm hearing some real growth, ragman. Fun to hear multiple takes as you figure out what this song will be for you.

    Christian, sounded great too.

    I think I'll do multiplease vids for this. Here's my first "sit down" with the tune today...trying a few impractical Johnny Smith isms.

    So far, my ears like B half diminished to kick off bar 3 and a D#dim to end bar 4. We'll see where this goes over the next few days.

    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    I think I'm hearing some real growth, ragman. Fun to hear multiple takes as you figure out what this song will be for you.

    Christian, sounded great too.

    I think I'll do multiplease vids for this. Here's my first "sit down" with the tune today...trying a few impractical Johnny Smith isms.

    So far, my ears like B half diminished to kick off bar 3 and a D#dim to end bar 4. We'll see where this goes over the next few days.

    (Big smile. Applause.)

  9. #58

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    You don't think your latest take sounds better than your first?
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    he starts chorus with CM7 A13 over melody notes B C A ...
    with Bm7b5, E7#5#9,, Am7, Eb7 played on each beat of the 3rd meassure over melody notes D E C ...
    You're quite right, of course! Sorry, I meant the infamous bars 3/4.

    Christian take note :-)

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzthebee View Post
    Here is another quick chorus. I'm sticking with my reharm (sorry), but trying out some BIAB styles. In retrospect, the intro is too long..
    Hey, that was good! Martino-esque, sort of understated but not at all bland, you know... nice. Nice tone on the guitar too.

  12. #61
    Great to hear everyone's versions. A lot of solo takes this month. Here's one from me. Very straight ahead phone-video version, complete with bumble bee noise. Sorry. Not the first take, but not the 4th. Left a clam in to keep it "real". :-)

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Of course it's better, but your assumptions as to why are patronising.

    I dashed off the first one without thinking much because my heart wasn't in it, the tune wasn't grabbing me. I said that in the post, I believe. The second one took time and a little more thought, which I wanted to give it. I prefer 'feeling' music to fast zoomy stuff, that's all.
    Wow, wasn't intended to be patronizing. Was intended to say you found something you liked, and angle you could work, in a tune that wasn't doing it for you. Whatever. If you thought I meant something else, you could have at least used a pm.
    Last edited by mr. beaumont; 12-03-2016 at 10:15 PM.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  14. #63

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    Agreed.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  15. #64

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    Here's a version i recorded on the occasion of Les Paul's 100 birthday last year:

    Using a Limited Edition Les Paul Custom, and trying for just a little bit of the way he played the tune
    (in his later years, anyhow).
    Last edited by dogletnoir; 12-04-2016 at 02:44 PM.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    I think I'm hearing some real growth, ragman. Fun to hear multiple takes as you figure out what this song will be for you.

    Christian, sounded great too.

    I think I'll do multiplease vids for this. Here's my first "sit down" with the tune today...trying a few impractical Johnny Smith isms.

    So far, my ears like B half diminished to kick off bar 3 and a D#dim to end bar 4. We'll see where this goes over the next few days.

    Nice CM version Mr. B! I saw many of my favorite chord forms and some really nice usage of them. I have been following your progress for a few years and I love the resulting progress I hear. Wonderful!!

    wiz (Howie)
    Howie

  17. #66

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    I could not help it... I just like this version Jordan made and I add a link... hope he does not mind





    Keep it up, Jordan

  18. #67

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    Oh lord, I might have to do a weird version now! Bugger


    ... and it's only the 7th of December... arrgh

  19. #68

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  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-ster View Post
    Great playing. Your submissions always sound professional. How did you record/master this? what kind of guitars/amps?

  21. #70
    very pleasant,nice playing,nice impro,M-ster !

    You don't need the Bass line behind,it doesn't add more to your lines
    cheers
    HB
    "you approach harmony in a unique way.Very original,and the more I listen to your posts,the more I appreciating it."
    Chris Whiteman,professor of jazz music,University of Miami

  22. #71
    mine

    "you approach harmony in a unique way.Very original,and the more I listen to your posts,the more I appreciating it."
    Chris Whiteman,professor of jazz music,University of Miami

  23. #72

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    Thanks, gent's. Now I have to go back and finish my Nov submission ... !

    Quote Originally Posted by pkirk View Post
    Great playing. Your submissions always sound professional. How did you record/master this? what kind of guitars/amps?
    At the risk of eliciting a "quaint" from Christian, I'm recording into my now-aging DAW.

    Guitar slightly left is an Eastman T-145, played fingers; guitar slightly right is Ibanez GB-10 with pick. Both are just direct-in with no modelling or amps in the chain. Both received a bit of compression during mixing. No additional mastering (which is why the .mp3 is relatively quiet).

    I often end up browsing the forum on a Surface Pro 3, which employs some kind of Dolby processing to all the audio that greatly compresses (and distorts) it, in my opinion. If you disable the Dolby, the audio is so quiet, it barely can be heard, unless no one else is home. My own tracks sound *so* awful on that device, that I haven't done *any* mastering moves on my last few submissions. (Just in case some of you folks are listening on similar devices!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyppolyte Bergamotte View Post
    very pleasant,nice playing,nice impro,M-ster !

    You don't need the Bass line behind,it doesn't add more to your lines ...
    Ha! Well, I was trying to make this one somewhat of a guitar duet. The finger-style chord melody stands alone fairly well, but then it seemed to make no sense when Mr. Plectrum joined for the solo ... so I let both play throughout.

  24. #73

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    M-ster -

    Whoops, I missed your post. Nice indeed! Different too.

    Um, how do you get it on that mp3 player? I'm intrigued :-)

  25. #74

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    Didn't need the drums etc. Can you take that out? Apart from that, beautifully played. Lovely feel to it :-)
    Last edited by ragman1; 12-12-2016 at 01:34 AM.

  26. #75

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    I had trouble getting into this tune due to the almost incessant 6-2-5-1 cycle. What saves the tune is that the colors of chords change each time through the cycle -- e.g., the 6th chord alternates between min-7 and dom-7. The dom-7 chords in the bridge also provide sone relief and provide an opportunity for some bluesy lines.
    Here's a sloppy sketch of the tune reinterpreted as a waltz in Bb, played on nylon string into an iphone.
    https://app.box.com/s/cgi086f6f6ewngz62ibwlp0ynkrnv7zp

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    I had trouble getting into this tune due to the almost incessant 6-2-5-1 cycle. What saves the tune is that the colors of chords change each time through the cycle -- e.g., the 6th chord alternates between min-7 and dom-7. The dom-7 chords in the bridge also provide sone relief and provide an opportunity for some bluesy lines.
    Here's a sloppy sketch of the tune reinterpreted as a waltz in Bb, played on nylon string into an iphone.
    https://app.box.com/s/cgi086f6f6ewngz62ibwlp0ynkrnv7zp
    Yeah it's a bit annoying. I think this is a time where melodic variation is probably the answer, although the melody can get a bit trite too.

  28. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    ... Here's a sloppy sketch of the tune reinterpreted as a waltz in Bb, played on nylon string into an iphone. https://app.box.com/s/cgi086f6f6ewngz62ibwlp0ynkrnv7zp
    Ha! I like​ it in 3. Nice.

  29. #78

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    I'm glad I didn't hear these till now ...

    Jim Mullen


    Barney Kessel (this may be the most moving thing I've ever heard from BK!)


    Wow.

  30. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    I had trouble getting into this tune due to the almost incessant 6-2-5-1 cycle.
    That's what I thought, a bit pop-ish. So in the end I just gritted my teeth and got on with it :-)

    as a waltz in Bb
    I thought that too and started to do it in 6/8, quite zippy, but gave up on it. I might try it again sometime. But I did like your waltz a lot! It's so nice it could have a future...

  31. #80

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    Man, everyone is sounding so good on this that it's sort a shame to take it down a few notches, but I missed out on the last couple (few?) tunes, so I thought I'd throw in a quick chorus.

    Get ready for some meandering and overused devices. I welcome criticism, be it constructive or just plain insulting.

    Jay

    'boobadoobadoobaooababop!'

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu View Post
    I welcome criticism, be it constructive or just plain insulting.
    Oh, never insulting, it's counterproductive :-)

    Okay, well, some of your licks tend to lose steam at the end. They start well, goodly jazz stuff, and then sort of end on a bit of a spare note. It's as though you've got the idea for the lick down but haven't followed it out to more than about five notes. You probably want at least seven or eight ( a full bar's worth) firmly fixed in your mind/brain/fingers, as strongly as the first four or five. That way they can be linked, if you see what I mean.

    You don't mind? It's meant to be helpful. Being objective about one's own playing is always awkward. I know I ought to patiently put stuff on the back-burner till I can hear it fresh again but the urge to finish it and get it out there usually takes over

  33. #82

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    Afterthought...

    Watching pros on videos, I remember them demonstrating some sort of run. I was watching myself too. They'd start on the top string and go down a run or scale - right the way through to the bottom 6th string, right across the fretboard. I remember my mind was sort of expecting them to stop at about the 4th string because that's what I'd do!

    That's when I realised I was weak on the bottom string extensions... still am, I rather suspect.

  34. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu View Post
    Man, everyone is sounding so good on this that it's sort a shame to take it down a few notches, but I missed out on the last couple (few?) tunes, so I thought I'd throw in a quick chorus.

    Get ready for some meandering and overused devices. I welcome criticism, be it constructive or just plain insulting.

    Really nice Jay, I hear a Jimmy Raney influence in your version. Nice tone, good lines!

    wiz
    Howie

  35. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-ster View Post
    I'm glad I didn't hear these till now ...

    Jim Mullen


    Barney Kessel (this may be the most moving thing I've ever heard from BK!)


    Wow.
    wonderful music from master Barney and Jim

    wiz
    Howie

  36. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehu View Post
    Man, everyone is sounding so good on this that it's sort a shame to take it down a few notches, but I missed out on the last couple (few?) tunes, so I thought I'd throw in a quick chorus.

    Get ready for some meandering and overused devices. I welcome criticism, be it constructive or just plain insulting.

    You are a poopyhead!

    Sorry I couldn't resist. :-)

  37. #86

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    I see you two know each other...

  38. #87
    joaopaz Guest
    Hi guys,

    Here's another take - still very much a work in progress; but I needed to get this stage out of the way, to see if I can come up with fresh ideas.

    It's a bit repetitive, I'm somewhat entangled on the tune's inner melodic repetition, but that's challenging at the same time.

    Now I'm going to sit down and catch up with what you guys have been doing, too!


  39. #88

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    Thank you Ragman and Christian for your valuable insights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Okay, well, some of your licks tend to lose steam at the end. They start well, goodly jazz stuff, and then sort of end on a bit of a spare note. It's as though you've got the idea for the lick down but haven't followed it out to more than about five notes. You probably want at least seven or eight ( a full bar's worth) firmly fixed in your mind/brain/fingers, as strongly as the first four or five. That way they can be linked, if you see what I mean.
    I think you're giving me too much credit by saying I've thought five notes ahead, but otherwise this is spot on. I've had difficulty with my phrases just trailing off. I think I'm getting better, but more often than not there is still no definite resolution. Something to work on!
    Jay

    'boobadoobadoobaooababop!'

  40. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by wizard3739 View Post
    Really nice Jay, I hear a Jimmy Raney influence in your version. Nice tone, good lines!
    It's more than influence, Howie -- it's outright theft! I appreciate the kind words.
    Jay

    'boobadoobadoobaooababop!'

  41. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by joaopaz View Post
    Hi guys,

    Here's another take - still very much a work in progress; but I needed to get this stage out of the way, to see if I can come up with fresh ideas.

    It's a bit repetitive, I'm somewhat entangled on the tune's inner melodic repetition, but that's challenging at the same time.

    Now I'm going to sit down and catch up with what you guys have been doing, too!
    Your work with those inner voices is really nice!

  42. #91

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    I can't get M-ster to play it opens the file but when I press the play button nothing happens , anybody else having this problem?

  43. #92

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    Trevor -

    I'm not, and I've got adblock, ghostery, and all kinds of security stuff on my laptop. But it does open so it's probably something on your computer/phone. Bloomin' technology, you need a black belt in IT just to get through the day...

    Hopefully M-ster will help out if he sees this. Otherwise try another browser or someone else's machine. There are ways round this but better try the sensible stuff first :-)

    We want you to hear this!
    Last edited by ragman1; 12-14-2016 at 06:41 AM.

  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by trevorS View Post
    I can't get M-ster to play it opens the file but when I press the play button nothing happens , anybody else having this problem?
    As an alternative, you might try to right-click the link, and then select "Save link as ..." (or similar, depending on your platform) from the resulting context menu. Once you've saved the .mp3 locally, you should be able to double-click it to play it.

    Hope that helps?

  45. #94

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    M-ster

    I went to your Noise site but couldn't find that file. It's not under mp3s or the others as far as I could tell. Technically, unless it's cleverly hidden, no one can open it!

    Btw, I was a bit impressed with Giant Steps. Bloody hell!
    Last edited by ragman1; 12-14-2016 at 02:35 PM.

  46. #95
    joaopaz Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by M-ster View Post
    Wonderful, M-ster!
    Any particular reason for the key change?

    Love it when people keep a connection to the more classic stuff... that ending is precious

  47. #96
    joaopaz Guest
    Quite a trip listening to all the versions. Very inspiring and enlightening at times.
    I can see why this forum feature gets so much love ...

    Barney Kessel, though, takes the trophy home

  48. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    M-ster

    I went to your Noise site but couldn't find that file ...
    Ha, I haven't updated that site in several years! There's no link to the .mp3 on the site itself, but you can follow the link that I provided to get to the file, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by joaopaz View Post
    Wonderful, M-ster!
    Any particular reason for the key change?

    Love it when people keep a connection to the more classic stuff... that ending is precious
    Ha! Well, the key change was just to center my voicings more on the neck. (It felt better to me for the guitar.) If I would have approached the melody with single notes, I might have lowered it a 4th or 5th. It just depends. Nothing deeper than that ...

    And, yes, the ending is cliche, but it recapped the "back door" ii - V that precedes the bridge. So, it seemed to fit the arrangement, such as it is.

  49. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by joaopaz View Post
    ...but then you brought it in quite intensely.
    funny thing, when the bass solo entered I could swear I heard the audience clapping
    The audience in my head was clapping

  50. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-ster View Post
    Ha, I haven't updated that site in several years! There's no link to the .mp3 on the site itself, but you can follow the link that I provided to get to the file, right?
    Right, absolutely. But how come we can open the file at that site when it's not on there? I do not always understand the ways of modern technology :-)

  51. #100
    joaopaz Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Right, absolutely. But how come we can open the file at that site when it's not on there? I do not always understand the ways of modern technology :-)
    The file is on the site server. You just need the link provided here. It's just the link missing on thew website, not the file. ... at least that's what I'm reading.