The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I'd still recommend giving it a go if it is new to you. Writing this is making me realise I should get back into it.

    Did Joe talk much about the nuts and bolts, or was he more of a 'learn by playing and listening' guy?

    Joe got high most the time. He did a long stretch for drugs. He and Warren Marsh (Art Pepper too) were the guys that really got nailed for long prison terms behind drugs. Joe was messed up. He didn't talk about much except where to score.

    I played with Jim Gordon too. That was before he killed his wife's mother with a hammer and then sent his wife a bereavement card.

    Boy, I had some spicy bandmates....

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  3. #27

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    Oh, and I played the memorial for Frank Rosolino after the shot his 2 sons and then himself. He wasn't around to enjoy the performance unfortunately.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by docdosco
    Yes, but we were talking about the natural 4 and raised 4 over the IV chord. The raised 5th (lydian concept) is not a bebop thing. It seemed to occur in the cool jazz period and mostly on the tonic (I guess, although there are harmonic changes like the diatonic chords on the 7 steps of a major scale that occur with that pesky raised 4th).
    Sorry duh - yes I think I've just understood your last post. Yes. It may help to think that way. But however you construct this scale on those different roots with the added it still outlines a dominant seventh chord, so in this sense it is always a dominant scale.

    Here's a fourth example - Locrian with a natural 5th.

    Personally, I would tend to frame this as - starting a dominant scale on the different chord tones, and adding an extra note as required to make the thing work. Really it doesn't matter what that added note is. Here is a variation with no chromatics.

    1 6 b7 6 5 4 3 2 1

    You could even use an open string or a ghost note. Say we are in C, we can play the second note as an open G or something and then play Bb. It all works. The point is, of course, the rhythm.

    The major 4th is the 7th in a dominant 7th chord, and it of course resolves down a half step to resolve. That is pretty obvious, however using the raised 4th is a tricky deal in when and where to stick it. I love it in a dominant chord... b5. Very tasty.
    It's particularly, how you say, a la mode on things like II7, IV7 and bVII7. I don't actually like it over-emphasised on V7's.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by docdosco
    Joe got high most the time. He did a long stretch for drugs. He and Warren Marsh (Art Pepper too) were the guys that really got nailed for long prison terms behind drugs. Joe was messed up. He didn't talk about much except where to score.

    I played with Jim Gordon too. That was before he killed his wife's mother with a hammer and then sent his wife a bereavement card.

    Boy, I had some spicy bandmates....
    I think I'd file that under 'experiential learning.' ;-)

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Sorry duh - yes I think I've just understood your last post. Yes. It may help to think that way. But however you construct this scale on those different roots with the added it still outlines a dominant seventh chord, so in this sense it is always a dominant scale.

    Here's a fourth example - Locrian with a natural 5th.

    Personally, I would tend to frame this as - starting a dominant scale on the different chord tones, and adding an extra note as required to make the thing work. Really it doesn't matter what that added note is. Here is a variation with no chromatics.

    1 6 b7 6 5 4 3 2 1

    You could even use an open string or a ghost note. Say we are in C, we can play the second note as an open G or something and then play Bb. It all works. The point is, of course, the rhythm.



    It's particularly, how you say, a la mode on things like II7, IV7 and bVII7. I don't actually like it over-emphasised on V7's.
    The way I really started to nail playing through changes was duo gigs I played with Sid Jacobs. (thank heaven for duos) I would get these supper club jobs and instead of calling a bass player, I'd call Sid. He was scary. It was like playing with Joe Pass.

    He slapped targeting 3rds and 7ths into my noodle. I was never really, really proficient playing changes until I began resolving my lines as I played and targeting 3rds and 7ths. (and b9 on a dominant) I had a Eureka moment with Sid. I became a player that played off the chord tones, targeting, using enclosures, chromatics and approach tones and such.... and playing melodically, with good phasing and letting the lines breath, from a player that noodled through scales.

    I was never a bebopper. I was happy just to play straight ahead well enough. Once I got these concepts under my belt, when I pulled Joe Pass or Barney Kessell or Wes Montgomery lines the underlying structure of jazz vocabulary (in this style) sunk in.

    Here is Sid playing All the things you are with Juampy Juarez. I can't play anything that sounds like this at these tempos. Slow it down somewhat and I'm cool though....



  7. #31

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    Here is another. Guide tones.


  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    (I know, nothing to it right? :-D)
    Now that the term BH school has been mentioned several times I have a small question. When you write dominant in your scale overview .. Is there a default BH scale?

    My own instinct is to play altered (so in case of Eb dominant, Id play the notes of the E melodic minor)

  9. #33

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    Dominant = mixolydian

    That's the simplest choice. It's not the only one of course.

  10. #34

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    It is the witching hour here 4 AM and I can't sleep, so I am engaged my Jazz Guitar Forumula night sleep therapy.

    Working on tunes is cool, Maybe working on other aspects of constructing solos and the trick, devices, approaches would be cool for chord melody, schools of imporov or comping too. I have grey areas I need to work on. Much is in the archive here I assume, but perhaps we might do a tune and trade choruses like found on a bandstand jam

    W could post a few of our sparkling solos and sling them out them for kudos or critisim

    Takers?

  11. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzthebee
    If I understand your last sentence correctly, I think that's where this thread is headed. Some people put it out there right off the bat, while others work on getting a good performance/recording.
    Yeah that's the purpose of the practical standards threads.

    Anyway, Old dog/new tricks and all.... I'm a skimmer. Every time I see "PS", while scanning, I tend to think/see "PSA", if I'm not careful.

    Perhaps "P.Stan" or"p-shiz" for the abrev.? :-)

    .....kidding....

  12. #36

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    my contribution


  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I think I'd file that under 'experiential learning.' ;-)

    Yep.

    BTW, Jim Gordon is still in prison unable to get parole again until 2018. This has to be one of the saddest displays of a musician with mental issues ever. He played with so many great artists, and still has a sizable income just from the royalties from writing Layla etc. I guess he gives away a lot of money to fellow inmates. But he still hears voices in his head.

    He was decent to me, that's all know.

  14. #38

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    I have to hook up a recorder this week..I bought a Zoom a while back and have never used it. Here is my kick in the pants.

    In the meantime, Jimmy Bruno has a cool cut of All the things you are.

    He is the Paganini of Guitar. He isn't loved by all because his technical prowess and virtuosity is otherworldly and in your face, but I dig him just fine. I guess some don't understand his style. He rocks to me though:




    Thoughts?

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzthebee
    Quote Originally Posted by docdosco
    ... but perhaps we might do a tune and trade choruses like found on a bandstand jam

    W[e] could post a few of our sparkling solos and sling them out them for kudos or critisim

    Takers?
    ... that's where this thread is headed. Some people put it out there right off the bat, while others work on getting a good performance/recording.
    Yes! The Practical Standards threads are about participants posting ***audio*** of their takes, performances, or interpretations of the chosen song-of-the-month.

    I know we love it, but, as Garson O'Toole said in 1918, "... writing about music is as illogical as singing about economics."

    [Later (1983?), Elvis Costello attributed to Martin Mull a similar analogy: "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture."]

    So, let's post some audio or video, gents! There are plenty of other posts dedicated to Barry Harris, CST vs. chord-tones, and other theoretical excursions, no?

  16. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by M-ster
    Yes! The Practical Standards threads are about participants posting ***audio*** of their takes, performances, or interpretations of the chosen song-of-the-month.

    I know we love it, but, as Garson O'Toole said in 1918, "... writing about music is as illogical as singing about economics."

    [Later (1983?), Elvis Costello attributed to Martin Mull a similar analogy: "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture."]

    So, let's post some audio or video, gents! There are plenty of other posts dedicated to Barry Harris, CST vs. chord-tones, and other theoretical excursions, no?
    Thoughts on approach are welcome and appreciated IMO, especially from more knowledgeable participants. That's been common practice, especially the earliest ones.

    It probably shouldn't be a back and forth DEBATE though. I'd agree with you that there are better places for THAT.

  17. #41

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  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    Thoughts on approach are welcome and appreciated IMO, especially from more knowledgeable participants. That's been common practice, especially the earliest ones.

    It probably shouldn't be a back and forth DEBATE though. I'd agree with you that there are better places for THAT.
    True, sorry about that.

  19. #43

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    Short clip from a recent gig:


  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by unknownguitarplayer
    Short clip from a recent gig:


    I like this. Very nice. I listened 4 or 5 times. (it is short though)

    The development of the short melodic motifs with the quick triplet phrasing is cool, and the melody skips to slightly unusual intervals (and do I hear 4ths?) I'll listen again because it is a well constructed and 'musical' solo. No wasted notes.

  21. #45

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    Thanks for the kind words, Doc. Much appreciated.

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by unknownguitarplayer
    Thanks for the kind words, Doc. Much appreciated.
    Reminds me of Joe Diorio. Same touch and attack on the lines, plus he loved intervallic shapes that were spread out and unusual......

  23. #47

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    One of the best solos over All The Things.....

  24. #48

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    Don't forget the Master, for inspiration:


  25. #49

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    Giving it a shot, just playing it from memory...

    Sorry, it's been awhile.
    Next time i'll look at the lead sheet first.

  26. #50

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    Hi,
    Here is some soloing of me. Or more like practice. No theme.

    That great meandering solo from Fuzzthebee(great 8ths!) made me rethink about my not always so swinging and right timed notes. Back to the drawing table again. Ah, it is the offbeat, the 1e and 2e etc.
    Here you'll hear me practicing starting and ending on mostly those offbeats. I nearly don't dare to play more than four 8th in a row and when you'll hear me doing that, it loses its swing. Of course the most important thing is that it will becomes a feeling and your lines come out of that feeling and more important, some (old) lines don't. So my next step is to play a couple of 8ths.

    So for now, it is offbeat time:



    Hans
    Last edited by Hatim; 11-11-2016 at 03:39 PM.