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  1. #1

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    The winner is "Naima", a John Coltrane jazz standard. Below, you will find a backing track consisting of a BIAB jazz trio with an intro, 3 choruses, a standard ending and a lead sheet. Good luck with this song and have fun with it.

    wiz (Howie)

    Backing track---->https://app.box.com/s/a99f4v438h27q0ft0yzggdvxr382zk2o

    Lead Sheet------->https://app.box.com/s/qt3i20h6m5xfihgsux4b61ytnhqud0j4

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I can but the lead sheet looks way different than my real book Naima version which sounds very similar to Coltrane's recording. At the very least Howie's version will allow us to practise our 16th notes at a slow tempo.

    Edit: After trying to learn the first 4 bars of the melody I think that this tune is a perfect vehicle for me so count me in this month.
    Last edited by Liarspoker; 04-04-2016 at 09:11 AM.

  4. #3

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    I'll start us off, as I had a little time to play through this weekend.

    So my idea this month, since I really love this tune, is to post a few videos as my playing on it evolves...so this is day 1, you're hearing below, I did not previously know this tune...So basically we'll see what a month of getting "inside" a tune can do for me.

    Last edited by mr. beaumont; 04-04-2016 at 08:53 AM.

  5. #4

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    So, to start an actual conversation--this is a cool piece that isn't really "functional" in it's harmony...my first run through here is by ear, so you can hear a little tentativness as I'm working things out.

    Today, I sat down and tried to actually figure out what the "harmonic environments" I was hearing are...here's where I'm at now:

    (I'll analyze in Ab, the common key, keep in mind to use the low open E as a pedal in my solo version I moved the tune up a half step)

    So the first four bars go between Dorian and Mixolydian sounds--to my ears. So a Bb Dorian sound to an Eb Dorian, then two descending dominant sounds to an Abmaj sound. Most charts seem to talk b5 or #11 on the dominants, which is cool, but the 13th is the most important note in those...

    In the bridge, we get a little Spanish...4 bars of Phrygian and Phrygian Dominant alternating...and then some stuff I'm not so sure what to call yet...I'll be reporting back again in a bit, once I can put a name to these note sets and not sound like an idiot.

  6. #5

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    Very nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I'll start us off, as I had a little time to play through this weekend.

    So my idea this month, since I really love this tune, is to post a few videos as my playing on it evolves...so this is day 1, you're hearing below, I did not previously know this tune...So basically we'll see what a month of getting "inside" a tune can do for me.


  7. #6

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    I've never worked on this one before, either. I was thinking about it, and I never called this tune ever. Had it called on me, but there was always a horn player and a full combo.

    So when you talked about this one as a solo piece, I looked at it and there are some really interesting problems to solve.

    The thing I wrestled with was those pedals in the bass are important, but the original key is a beautiful key. I was remembering who wrote this one, too.

    I decided to play this one my steel string acoustic, too. John McLaughlin's "My Goals Beyond" is one of my favorite records, you know

    so I did sort of like you did and moved everything up a half step, then I tuned my A to a B so I'd have the pedal for the B section on an open string, then I tuned the whole mess down a half step back to the original key. Or at least the original key as it sounds on my turntable.

    so here is a sketch of the head and ending tag with my attempt at keeping the bass part going

  8. #7

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    Sounds great, Nate!

  9. #8

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    thanks, Jeff!

    yours also sounds really good. I was checking out how you played the pedal in the B part, too. That, I think is the more practical playing solution. I have a guitar in "Naima tuning" this month, which isn't how you would go about it in real life playing situations


    BTW, you got me into playing this one, so thanks! I've been having some fun with this tune. I got my old vinyl copy of Coltrane's Greatest Hits on the turntable. Wynton Kelly, Paul Chambers and Jimmy Cobb on that cut with Trane. So that's my model.

  10. #9

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    i done a quick solo version, loving the interpretations so far

  11. #10

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    I'd like to talk a bit about harmonic analysis on this one. First, I want to note that the form is clearly ABA. It's unfortunate that the bass pedals aren't notated on the sample lead sheet, because those notes are important not just for the texture, but I think also for the real meaning of the harmony.

    The bass pedal in the A section is on Eb and in the B section it is on Bb. This bass motion alone would give us an ABA form in Eb, wouldn't it? How many times did the great composers go to the dominant key in the B section? Lots of times. So just tuck this idea of the bass parts outlining a form in Eb for now and I'll come back to this idea later.

    Now we note that the key signature is in 4 flats. The A section and the tune itself end on the Ab harmony. but you know what's missing? A leading tone. Look at the second bar. That Eb minor. That's Gb, not G natural in that chord. Remember, John Coltrane knew what the **** he was doing. The leading tone is intentionally flatted. Is this done to obscure or delay the Ab tonality, or is it done because Ab isn't really the key? (rhetorical question)

    There's some other things I noticed. Both parts cadence with an Eb in the melody and always in the same register. The melody and the bass part alone would put this tune in Eb. But there is no doubt that the Ab harmony is where this tune comes to rest. This is the engine on this tune. That right there. The outer voices outline a tune in Eb and the cadence is made in Ab. 2 + 2 = 4. The key to the complexity and beauty in the harmony is this combining the keys Ab and Eb.

    Now in the second part, the B section there is a B major. Very hard to reconcile that chord. But without this chord, I wouldn't even make the case for the key of Ab. In the B section, there is tension. A B major over a Bb pedal sure makes tension. But what is the relationship between Ab and B? Its a minor 3rd. Wasn't Coltrane exploring harmonic relationships of keys a minor 3rd apart around the time he wrote this one? So this B section goes back and forth between the tension chord and the release chord. the second phrase of the B section does the same thing, but it starts off on the triton sub of the Bb7 we've been using as home base in our tension/release

    anyway,so there are some of the things I noticed as I figure out an improvisational approach to this tune. I'm certainly not explaining everything, but I think I'm getting a grasp on what it is that makes the unique harmonic tension in this tune.

  12. #11

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    Yeah, the pedal tones are important...if you look at where Trane took this one a few years later, it's all about shifting note sets against pedals...and it's gorgeous...

    The version from "Live at the Village Vanguard Again" is just one of the best things I've ever heard...and Pharoah Sanders' solo is otherworldly...he goes so far out...you start thinking, "awww, he's just blowing," and then BAM! he nails a resolution in a way that you realize he knew exactly where he was the whole time. It's magical.

  13. #12

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    I got to check that out. I have an old double vinyl albumn with Trane and Pharaoh called "Live in Seattle" or something like that. I'm going to dig that record out tonight. The version I have on his Greatest Hits, Trane doesn't take a solo, Wynton Kelly does a chorus on piano and then they come back and play the head out.

    back to the bass notes...I always saw this tune in Ab and thought of the pedals as just being the 5th in the bass, but I only gave this tune a cursory look over before the boys kicked it off in the past. After looking at it seriously, I'm not so sure that's really what's going on.

    One thing I always noticed about this tune was that the harmony is beautiful, but its also very fragile. Its pretty easy to play something that "breaks the spell" and effs everything all up. So why is that? Also, why is it so hard to find harmonic ideas that are different from the record but still work? That doesn't happen in jazz very often. That's what I mean by "fragile"

    I think the complexity comes from Trane purposefully not giving us an EbDom7 with a G natural leading tone. Its just enough to blur things. Is that the 5th in the bass or the root? We'll never know...and that might be the key to the whole thing

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Miller

    One thing I always noticed about this tune was that the harmony is beautiful, but its also very fragile. Its pretty easy to play something that "breaks the spell" and effs everything all up. So why is that? Also, why is it so hard to find harmonic ideas that are different from the record but still work? That doesn't happen in jazz very often. That's what I mean by "fragile"
    Boy is that a good point. It is remarkably fragile...

    I mean you take most standards...really, you got 12 notes to use, there's ones to land on and ones to pass through...

    But Naima...you can't play bop on Naima...to quote Miles, you gotta "play the pretty notes, M----------r."

    The melody is soooo important here. Which is interesting, because on the original, the melody is played so simply...long tones...and as Trane progressed with it, he added a lot. But the melody is still there, guiding all.

  15. #14

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    the melody has some very interesting things going on in it. One thing that strikes me is how many of those long notes are on upper extensions...either the 9th or the 13th. The only time you see a note lasting more than a single beat that isn't an upper extension is at the cadences... the Eb

    also notice that the first chord, that 9th of the Bb minor is also a 13th against the pedal in the bass. Not sure if there's any significance to that yet, but it is interesting.

    also, the opening of the B section puts that long note as the major 7th above the pedal, which is a very tense interval

    as I write this, I am beginning to realize that these intervallic relationships of the melody to the bass pedals on those long notes is what makes this tune fragile.

  16. #15

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    Yeah, if you play the chords without the pedal, it loses all of that.

    It's a "modal" jazz piece, really...

    I'm noticing I'm having an easier time creating melodic lines if I treat the pedal as the root...so in the beginning, NOW I'm thinking E mixolydian to E dorian. The notes don't change, but my approach does.

  17. #16

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    see, I was starting to think like that last night, too. I even looked at the notes in each of the chords to see if there were ways of seeing those harmonies in Eb. I was thinking that first chord might be another voicing for an Eb6, but there's an Ab in there and all that. I came up empty, but I was finding all these good arguments for seeing this in Eb, I just had to take a look

  18. #17

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    I'm thinking there's something to this...relating everything to the pedal...the drone...

    I've been giving it a good workover the last few days...I'll do another video soon...I'll just cut right to the improv, take a chorus or two, see what comes out.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzthebee

    There is a leading tone on the second last chord of the A section. I guess most charts say A13 or A7b5, which would contain G, and essentially outlines Eb7#9#5.

    .
    well spotted! yes, that's the tritone sub for the A13 and there's a G in there for sure. Here I was focused on why the Eb minor in the 2nd bar, but there's a leading tone right where you'd expect: leading to the cadence




    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzthebee

    The weird thing is I hear Gma7, not Gmaj7#5 or Gma7b5 (which would normally be part of A13 or Eb7alt). Even though the melody hits Eb, there seems often to be a D in the piano chord. Gma7/Eb!!!

    In fact I hear the preceding chord as Amaj7. To confirm this, just listin to the tag at the end a few times and you'll hear the E to D to Eb in the voice leading.

    The A section can be thought of as a constant structure idea over a pedal tone, with the melody always on the Ma7:

    Dbma7, Gbma7, Ama7, Gma7, Abma7, all over an Eb pedal.

    The B section can also be thought of as types of Ma7 chords over a pedal, also with the melody always on the Ma7:

    Bma7, AbdimMa7, Dma7b5, Abma7, Ema7b5 all over a Bb pedal.

    very interesting. "Dbma7, Gbma7, Ama7, Gma7, Abma7, all over an Eb pedal." I think you are onto something there with the first chord a Dbma7. That is the same chord that starts the B section, too, it just has a different relationship to the bass note in the B section

    that right there actually makes a lot of sense, fuzzy.

  20. #19

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    I'm confused...you guys are hearing the last chord of the A section as a dominant sound?

    I'm hearing maj7...over the pedal tone...so really more like a maj6 chord with the pedal as the root...

  21. #20

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    no, I'm hearing an Abma7 at the end of the A section for sure. I was talking about the G leading tone in the A13 in the 3rd bar. He was talking about hearing a Gma7/Eb in that spot which would give you all the notes of an Eb7#5#9

    but all that is about the chord in the 3rd bar leading into the Abma7

    it gets a little confusing for me, though, because I moved the tune up a half a step on the fretboard. I'm talking about the tune in the key its written, but all my mental images are a half step up from there
    Last edited by Nate Miller; 04-05-2016 at 03:44 PM. Reason: for clarity

  22. #21

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    Ah, I see.

    Ok, so in the original key, I hear....or I should say, my brain WANTS to hear...those two chords in bar 3 as a Gbmaj9/Eb and a Emaj9/Eb...no 5th in either...
    Last edited by mr. beaumont; 04-05-2016 at 04:15 PM.

  23. #22

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    I noticed that too. I sort of took an adapted Schenkerian approach to analyzing this at one point last night. Another thing I noticed is that both phrases end on the same Eb in the same register.

    In the A section, we are filling in the space from the C to the Eb.

    In the B section, it starts with a smaller interval, but look what happens at the end of that phrase. The only time we get the second degree of the scale above that Eb in the B section (I'm saying 2nd degree because melodically I am taking Eb to be the first degree) but the only time we get it is in the middle of a triplet that then immediately goes up to the highest note up to this point in the B section.

    then we complete the B section by filling in from the Db to the Eb

    the upper and lower bounds of the two sections was something I'm thinking about as I think about how to approach improvising solo guitar on this one.

  24. #23

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    So what are you guys gaining by "compartmentalizing" the harmony? It's interesting to me, but it doesn't seem particularly useful.

    I've actually decided the tune is pretty simple...An opening sequence that goes from dominant to minor, then a cadence to a point of resolution.

    The bridge is all about Phrygian/P. Dominant sounds against a pedal, and that cool Lydian Dom chord...

    Anyway, that's how I see it...new vid coming today, I think.

  25. #24

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    I worked a bit on this last night. I've got a nice little chord-melody arrangement using the Real Book changes, but haven't done any improvising with it. I'm going to try not to analyze it too much, but just play and see what sounds good.

  26. #25

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    While it is quite easy one (to memorize), I don't think it is simple, at all. You can harmonize it in so many ways, with pedal, or without and still sound pretty good playing along Coltrane's band. Problem is, nothing sounds good enough. There is always one note in excess, making unpleasant tension. Like someone said above, seems Coltrane's way is the only real way. Even in original recording, as soon as pianist tried to do "his thing" it crashed at wrecked, IMO, of course. Luckily enough, he was smart enough to realize how inadequate and not try doing it again.
    That's what makes Coltrane great. It's his song, all the way, not some random Jazzy junk standard progression to blow over.

    BTW, my hobby horse, that's why people don't like listening to instrumental Jazz for extended period of time, first place, they sense it as being some generic junk to blow over, or force hardness where it's no place, without strong appealing personal touch. That's why it's so fit for elevator music.

  27. #26

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    well, sorry if I over analyzed things, but what's the point of studying music if you never apply what you know, right?

    I played this one for a couple hours last night, and it isn't really hard to noodle over, that's for sure, but I knew that when I was a teenager

    organizing my music thoughts so that I'm going someplace and not just wandering around...that's another story

    that is why I looked so hard at the form and melodic features

    anyway, on the A section I take triads out of Db (remember, I think in triads, not modes so that is just how I do things)

    now since I'm effectively tuned up a half step, that for me meant key of D. Also, any 3rds, 6ths, or 10ths will follow the key of D (sounding as Db)...AND I have open D and G strings.

    then in the 3rd bar, you have to leave that and create tension. Side slipping will suffice, but I also played symmetric runs over that bar, too. I also at one point drew triads from Gb to create tension, which is something I'll try and remember to play when I record next so you can hear that

    what I had trouble with last night was finding interesting things to say in the B section and keeping the bass part going

    In the next couple days I'll post a clip of what I've got going so far. I have to go up to town tonight, but its only April 6th so I figure I got a couple days

  28. #27

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    No worries, I'm not sure it is over-analyzing...I just genuinely wondered if it was making any lightbulbs go on for you guys--because I was getting confused!

    Vladan, I maintain it's simple...but simple tunes can be the hardest

    It's actually reminding me of learning a Shorter tune now...functional analysis goes out the window...you're left with tension and resolution, harmonic "environments" where ears are uber alles...you find a note set that agrees with your ears that you can visualize...internalize, a roadmap...and you go.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    It's actually reminding me of learning a Shorter tune now...functional analysis goes out the window...you're left with tension and resolution, harmonic "environments" where ears are uber alles...you find a note set that agrees with your ears that you can visualize...internalize, a roadmap...and you go.

    that's exactly why I resorted to Schenkerian techniques because functional analysis wasn't gong to tell me anything

    when it comes to music theory, the whole point is to try and get some sort of insight that is going to help your interpretation. At the same time, its good to remember what the first four letters of "analysis" are.

    There were two things that came out of our discussion yesterday that helped

    the first was the idea that the first chord was (aside from being a Bb minor9) was a Db maj7. I had doubts about Ab from the beginning. Now I'm not as interested in the official tonality as I am which key center to draw triads from. But Db worked out better than Ab for that, so that was a good thing

    the other part I was thinking about was related to what I was saying about the range the melody was filling. This helped me to have some sort of direction. For example if the A section comes around twice, then the first time I am filling in a smaller interval than the second. I'm also aware of when I play the highest note in each section

    but I like the idea of really learning to play this tune as a solo guitar piece. Yea, sure its simple. ...Until you try and move around on it

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    So, to start an actual conversation--this is a cool piece that isn't really "functional" in it's harmony...my first run through here is by ear, so you can hear a little tentativness as I'm working things out.

    Today, I sat down and tried to actually figure out what the "harmonic environments" I was hearing are...here's where I'm at now:

    (I'll analyze in Ab, the common key, keep in mind to use the low open E as a pedal in my solo version I moved the tune up a half step)

    So the first four bars go between Dorian and Mixolydian sounds--to my ears. So a Bb Dorian sound to an Eb Dorian, then two descending dominant sounds to an Abmaj sound. Most charts seem to talk b5 or #11 on the dominants, which is cool, but the 13th is the most important note in those...

    In the bridge, we get a little Spanish...4 bars of Phrygian and Phrygian Dominant alternating...and then some stuff I'm not so sure what to call yet...I'll be reporting back again in a bit, once I can put a name to these note sets and not sound like an idiot.
    I love this tune. The version from the Village Vanguard with Eric Dolphy is one of things that got me into jazz!

    Not to disagree with a modal analysis - but I think it's actually pretty functional as far as it goes. Most of it anyway...

    The first second is essentially a decorated ii-V-I over a pedal... I hear the following:

    Bbm9/Eb Ebm9 B13/Eb A13/Eb Ab/Eb

    Nothing too weird about this. Bass pedals V of Ab (Eb) throughout.

    The real book has B7#11 A7#11 which directly relates the the whole tone scale from a D7#5 chord - although the melody is not based on the whole tone scale, but agrees well enough with the chords.

    I actually hear Amaj7/Eb Gmaj7/Eb Ab/Eb here, which is a sideslip on the Ab chord - pretty common throughout jazz history

    The most unusual thing in fact is the Ebm9 chord, which could be understood as a type of modal interchange if you like, or just the the progression basically derives from Bbm Ebm Eb7(+) Ab.

    The second progression is:

    B/Bb Bb13

    Now, I understand this to be a sub of minor ii-V - in this case I am thinking going to Ebm. The bass changes in this section from Eb to Bb which seems to underline the slight change in tonality.

    Bmaj7 is a common sub for a Fm7b5, and putting the V pedal (Bb) in the bass is also standard.

    V13 going to Im might seem a little odd to us (me), but it was again really common in the late swing-bop era. Check out Charlie Christians lines on minor V-I's on I Found a New Baby for example - the V7alt chord was not taken as read in minor.

    I actually play Bb13b9 or G/Bb here...

    Then we have this, my favourite bit - all over a Bb (V) pedal:

    E13(#11) Bmaj7 Bb13sus Gb9

    Well this is a progression strongly in Ebm (we have a bII, a bVImaj7, and , which is a fancy way of saying V7alt IIm7b5 V, that is V7) going to this Gb9 chord which sets

    I actually play this:

    Dmaj7#5/Bb Bmaj7/Bb Abmaj7/Bb Emaj7

    You'll notice a nice minor third symmetry here - D-->B-->Ab, with the E setting us up nicely for the Ebm(ish) A section - it's a phrygian/neopolitan chord/bIImaj7 and we can see that first chord Bbm9/Eb as an Ebsus chord...

    The B section is a case study in building tension using pedals and chromatic changes, yet the whole thing has a strong tonality to it... You always feel you are in a key. At least I do.

    Learned an awful lot from this tune when I really analysed it a while back... To illustrate I might try and post some examples of Niama-isation of other standards rather than my own reading of the tune as well as a reading of it...
    Last edited by christianm77; 04-06-2016 at 11:54 AM.

  31. #30

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    I've been messing about with this tune and for soloing over the progression, I just found it easiest to do a sort of Pat Martino 'minor conversion' job on it.

    So A section is just Bbm, Ebm, then those 3 relatively quick major chords A, G, Ab.

    B section just alternates up and down between Abm, Fm, then the high bit goes up to Bm (here I use the Bb note a bit, to give it that Bm/maj7 sound and keep the Bb pedal note in sight). Then come back down the same way (Abm, Fm) and finish the B section on E major.

  32. #31

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    very nice analysis, Chris!

    "we can see that first chord Bbm9/Eb as an Ebsus chord..." that is interesting because I was hearing that as a kind of Eb but I talked myself out of it

    "The most unusual thing in fact is the Ebm9 chord, which could be understood as a type of modal interchange if you like, or just the the progression basically derives from Bbm Ebm Eb7(+) Ab." I thought that was one of the more interesting features, too. I said that Trane was obscuring the Ab tonality by flatting the leading tone in that chord

    but all around, that was a very interesting read. I'm going to try that out later when I get a chance

  33. #32

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    Ok, here's day 2...ish. Noodling on the changes....just getting ideas, this is more notes than I'd probably play for real...getting somewhere...I think.

    Last edited by mr. beaumont; 04-07-2016 at 08:59 AM.

  34. #33

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    nice work. I could tell where you were the whole time, too

    hey, just out of curiousity....did you hit a harmonic off your E string for the pedal in the B section the first time through?

  35. #34

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    Actual conversation I'm having in my head during that 3 minutes...

    "Hey, that harmonic was a good idea...should I do it again?....nah, don't overdo it...we should do the chicken with a spinach salad tonight...shit, that harmonic was good, how else am I gonna get a B drone? Whoops, dom#11 chord time!"

  36. #35

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    well, that was a brilliant idea. A very practical solution, really. The whole reason I tuned my A string up and reduced my instrument to a 4 string was so I could have my hands free and not be tied down to a fret.

    necessity being the brother of invention or something like that


    and on the fly, too. That's a jazz man right there.

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzthebee
    I notice the long melody notes on the last 4 bars of the B section spell a descending Eb7, interesting as the tonal centre is about to shift back to Ab. Similar to giant steps melody spelling a Ma7
    Good thinking fuzz. This is probably the best way to analyse the harmony on this tune - with reference to Coltrane's harmonic thinking during the Giant Steps period (nobody's mentioned it yet as far as I can see, but Naima first appeared on that album; and the Atlantic 1311 reissue of Giant Steps includes 2 out-takes of Naima, both with JC solos.)

    By the way fuzz I really like what you've done with Naima - I had to track you down on soundcloud (because most soundcloud links here are not clickable from my region), but it was worth it!

    @Vlad, yes your rock blues noodling should work well - JC spent more time playing minor pentatonics than any other jazz player I know of; but of course he was doing it over a harmonic framework that was from another space-time continuum, cheers buddy.

    But personally, I wouldn't attempt to analyse this tune too much.

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnysideup
    Good thinking fuzz. This is probably the best way to analyse the harmony on this tune - with reference to Coltrane's harmonic thinking during the Giant Steps period (nobody's mentioned it yet as far as I can see, but Naima first appeared on that album; and the Atlantic 1311 reissue of Giant Steps includes 2 out-takes of Naima, both with JC solos.)

    By the way fuzz I really like what you've done with Naima - I had to track you down on soundcloud (because most soundcloud links here are not clickable from my region), but it was worth it!

    @Vlad, yes your rock blues noodling should work well - JC spent more time playing minor pentatonics than any other jazz player I know of; but of course he was doing it over a harmonic framework that was from another space-time continuum, cheers buddy.

    But personally, I wouldn't attempt to analyse this tune too much.
    This had occurred to me too.... What interested me with this is the way that third cycles in triads (B --> G --> Eb, say) could be used as cadences. I'm not sure if that is what Coltrane was thinking but it sort of pops out to me...

    BTW - Vladan - if you haven't explored this - Coltrane pentatonics are often on the fourth below the root. So you could play an A minor pent against a D minor or D7 chord, or an A major pent against a Dmaj7. It's a good way of introducing some upper structure and it's great to break them up into fourths and so on intervallically rather than just go up and down.

    Another tune which (I think) is relevant is Central Park West (which is a minor third cycle as opposed to GS's major third cycle...) although that was released a few years later...

    Another lovely JC tune with some interesting harmony is After the Rain...

  39. #38

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    I dunno...I hear Naima as much more a foreshadowing of what was coming on "Ole" and beyond.

  40. #39

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    As for Naima being a pretty ballad; of course it is, JC felt it to be the "best" melody he wrote
    Did he? It was always my favourite of his pieces. For me I love the JC slow stuff best... Giant Steps and all of that is cool, but never touched me so much, and as a composition Giant Steps doesn't do it for me (as I mentioned elsewhere to flame-tastic results ;-))

    Anyway, I look forward to hearing your version of the tune.

  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77

    BTW - Vladan - if you haven't explored this - Coltrane pentatonics are often on the fourth below the root. So you could play an A minor pent against a D minor or D7 chord, or an A major pent against a Dmaj7. It's a good way of introducing some upper structure and it's great to break them up into fourths and so on intervallically rather than just go up and down.
    .
    Thanks, but I'll keep going up and down in whatever is the key. I will try to explore some pentatonics, though. It never occurred to me pentatonics could be used in blues music.

  42. #41

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    Just transcribed the head as played on the first vanguard recording...well I'd this don't change things...

    Just a teaser, will report back later...

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    So what are you guys gaining by "compartmentalizing" the harmony? It's interesting to me, but it doesn't seem particularly useful.
    Never got around to answering this.

    For me it's because I really like the harmony of Naima and I want to see if it's possible to use it in other tunes. Buy understanding the overlap with functional harmony, it makes it possible.

    It's not to discount your modal interchange approach at all, in fact they coexist very nicely.

  44. #43

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    This is what I would do on What is This Thing, for example:

    Original changes:

    Gm7b5 | C7b9 | Fm7 | % |
    Dm7b5 | G7b9 | Cmaj7 | % |

    Could become:

    Db/C | C13b9 | Db/C | Bb/C |
    Ab/G | G13b9 | Cmaj7 | % |

    So, maybe using US triads for fun and profit:

    Db/C | A/C | Db/C | Bb/C |
    Ab/G | E/G | Em/C | % |

    Another tune that works well for this is Stella - anything with loads of minor ii-V's really!

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Never got around to answering this.

    For me it's because I really like the harmony of Naima and I want to see if it's possible to use it in other tunes. Buy understanding the overlap with functional harmony, it makes it possible.

    It's not to discount your modal interchange approach at all, in fact they coexist very nicely.

    Oh, I agree, and I never thought you were discounting my take.

    I'll have to play through that WITTCL reharm...cool idea.


    So, back to Naima...now at the Vanguard in '61, 'Trane plays a completely different melody, following the same harmonic rhythm...some things of note...

    In the second bar, he hangs on a C.

    In the first bar of the bridge, the melody note is a G...very interesting...

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Oh, I agree, and I never thought you were discounting my take.

    I'll have to play through that WITTCL reharm...cool idea.


    So, back to Naima...now at the Vanguard in '61, 'Trane plays a completely different melody, following the same harmonic rhythm...some things of note...

    In the second bar, he hangs on a C.

    In the first bar of the bridge, the melody note is a G...very interesting...
    The harmony doesn't fit the tune of WITTCL btw... It's more a jumping off point... Would be good for solos or perhaps a new composition.

    Re Naima, I vaguely remember someone saying it was an inversion of the melody?
    Last edited by christianm77; 04-08-2016 at 01:06 PM.

  47. #46

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    Okay, getting a little more comfortable...long way to go on this one. Next step is basing improv off the alternate reversed melody, and mixing and matching.



    By the way, it took a third set of eyes, but I'm starting to feel relating things to major 7th over a pedal. But in addition as opposed to instead of.
    Last edited by mr. beaumont; 04-08-2016 at 07:18 PM.

  48. #47

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    There's very few notes over the harmony that sound bad...but only a few that sound great...if that makes any sense

  49. #48

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    And this is what it might sound like if someone made a set of Naima windchimes...


  50. #49

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    And Jeff, man, I love what you're doing with this tune. I'm hoping for videos right up until May.

  51. #50

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    wow, Jehu that was great