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  1. #51

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    I have the fifth edition Real Book. I never noticed that the chords were spiced up here and there in ATTYA in the newer ones.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Apparently decades ago before the real books got published, some students from Berklee had to arrange a bunch of jazz songs for an assessment; so they did & that's why so many jazz standards are transcribed with a slight difference, including ATTYA


    Quote Originally Posted by Binyomin
    I have the fifth edition Real Book. I never noticed that the chords were spiced up here and there in ATTYA in the newer ones.

  4. #53

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    It would be highly appreciated, to point me to an easy study of All the things you are, preferably only 8th notes and with tab, if possible.

    Thank you in advance...

  5. #54

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    I'm not going to post anything that will help you in a note by note instructional, but I will point you towards the excellent Lee Konitz lesson for when you're ready for it. It's one way of looking at improvisation and one of the most insightful looks into the process.
    You should have a workable command of making melodies that work with chords if you're going to get the most from this.
    I hope you find what you're looking for.
    David

    Lee Konitz

    10-Step Method (aka 10 Gradients) for Jazz Improvisation

    In very brief, the 10 gradients are incrementally moving from simple (the tune's melody) to complicated (improvising from pure inspiration) all the while keeping the original melody as point of departure and reference for building new material. The steps rely less and less on the original melody as we progress, of course.All examples take place on the first 8 bars of All The Things You Are, a great jazz standard.What to Do with That ???

    Ok, you've read (or played) through the examples and... it doesn't really make any sense, yet? Same thing happened to me, so don't worry! Each of Konitz 10 gradients should be worked on individually for a while. Here's a concise yet detailed explanation of each step:- 1st Gradient -

    The tune's melody, as is. This one's a "no brainer" really. :-)- 2nd Gradient -

    Slight variation on the original: identify "target notes", the most important tones of the melody. Connect them together, when you can or wish, with simple musical devices, with passing tones for example. In this step, the focus is on the important tones. Remember that these can be shortened in duration to allow passing tones to happen.- 3rd Gradient -

    More notes added to the line. Using new devices such as neighbor tones (mostly diatonic), change of direction and skips. The "target notes" are still present on strong beats but there's more flourishes around them. Similar to second gradient, but with more ornaments.- 4th Gradient -

    While it may be hard to tell the difference between Step 2 and 3 ("What should I play now...?"), Step 4 is really straight forward: Imagine a stream of 8th-notes (and occasional triplets) that simply uses the melody notes as guide-tones. That's the "big picture" of step 4. Every improvised lines on guide tones before? Check this out.- 5th Gradient -

    Same as Step 4 (the line is a stream of 8ths and triplets with the melody note dictating the direction) but we're adding two new important devices:
    • Neighbor tones (now more chromatic) and arpeggiation of underlying chords.
    • Rhythmic displacement of "target notes" (they don't always fall on downbeats anymore.)

    That's where the line really starts to develop into "its own thing". Very cool!- 6th Gradient -

    According less importance to the melody again: target notes still appear in their respective bars but may become subsidiary to the other ones (rhythmically, melodically and in phrasing/emphasis). In other words: the ornaments can "take over" and get more attention now. The improvised line should also be built from higher and higher chord tones (extensions such as 9ths, 11ths and 13ths).- 7th Gradient -

    Same as sixth gradient but Lee Konitz is using even more "higher" extension and altered chord tones such as b9, #9 and others. This one is a bit more "out" and chromatic than step 6. It depends on the tune, the player and where the line wants to go.- 8th Gradient -

    Original melody or intervals may still be present but they're totally ingrained in the improvised melody (barely noticeable, or not very obvious). This is probably where most "classic solos" stand: a great improvised line that stems from the original melody but that is never too obviously quoted from the original. Listen to Jim Hall, he's a master at using the melody subtly like this.- 9th Gradient -

    Almost no reference to the original target tones anymore (but the improvised line is still very anchored in the harmony of the tune and has grown from the original melody.) Lee Konitz may well be the only one to fully grasp this "gradient" of improv. I must admit, I don't really get it ... yet! To me, this is mind over matter...- 10th Gradient -

    An act of pure inspiration.Now, no written example can clearly demonstrate this one. It's very personal and somehow mystical. I suggest you listen to the Kenny Wheeler album Angel Song, the fourth track. Lee Konitz 's solo on this one is a clear demonstration of "pure inspiration".

    All The Things You Are-screen-shot-2018-11-29-8-45-05-am-jpg

    All The Things You Are-screen-shot-2018-11-29-8-45-25-am-jpg

  6. #55

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    The post above is where it's at, but I might also suggest googling Joe Elliot's "Connecting Game."

  7. #56

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    Here ya go. First tune in the book. This book contains melody (head), comping etude, chord melody, and single note solos for each tune that are somewhat etude like in the significant use of steady eighth notes. They were using this in the freshman year at UNT recently (Jazz Guitar Fundamentals I and II). They may still be, don't really know.

    That Lee Konitz approach is nice too. Well organized, progressive and analytical.

    Cheers.


    Mel Bay Jazz Guitar Standards: A Complete Approach to Playing Tunes: Alfred Music: 0796279086684: Amazon.com: Books
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 11-29-2018 at 10:17 PM.

  8. #57

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    Last edited by Drumbler; 11-30-2018 at 07:57 AM.

  9. #58

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    Check our Matt Warnock's Ebooks - he has a comprehensive study guide available. His study guides are worth every penny.

    Jazz Standard Study Guides 5 eBook Package Volume 4

  10. #59

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    I found this video extremely useful:

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by harpwood_gr
    Thank you very much for your time and effort to link me to those resources!
    There's a catch. We want to hear you play it later :-)

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    There's a catch. We want to hear you play it later :-)
    This is what I managed to learn and play so far... I tried target 3rds and I played mainly 8th notes.

    Any feedback that could make me better is more than welcome!


  13. #62

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    How about the Cliff Notes strategy...

    Starts in Ab
    Then to C
    Then to Eb
    Then to G
    Then E
    Then back to Ab more or less

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbler
    How about the Cliff Notes strategy...

    Starts in Ab
    Then to C
    Then to Eb
    Then to G
    Then E
    Then back to Ab more or less
    could please be more specific? I googled Cliff Notes strategy, but did not find anything related to jazz...

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by harpwood_gr
    could please be more specific? I googled Cliff Notes strategy, but did not find anything related to jazz...
    Simple is best sometimes. Don't overthink it. Follow the key changes in the tune as described and play in the correct key using the major scale.

    (Cliff Notes was a relatively unknown but talented jazz guitarist in the hard bop era. Photos of him are extemely rare.)

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbler
    Simple is best sometimes. Don't overthink it. Follow the key changes in the tune as described and play in the correct key using the major scale.

    (Cliff Notes was a relatively unknown but talented jazz guitarist in the hard bop era. Photos of him are extemely rare.)
    I agree, but performing wise.

    I think overthinking is better while practicing... I am trying to learn each chord tone of this tune (and later on other tunes) where is located on the fret-board. I have almost ready another study on same tune but targeting only 7th notes. I can tell you that I already recognize the positions of almost every 7th chord tones of this tune on my fret-board after this work out...

  17. #66

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    Suggestions to the original poster:

    - Figure out diatonic 7th note chords from melodic minor and from harmonic minor. (Don't rely on searching for this on the web - do it on your own so you're sure it's correct and that you understand it)

    - Only after that, explore tritone substitutions, secondary dominants, and dominant-diminished substitutions

    Some of the things others have written might then make more sense...

  18. #67

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    Coming from a classical background this just doesn't add up to me. I'm used to pieces that stay in the same key for whole movements and several pages of music.

    Is it really changing key that many times in such a short time? Did he really think about all that when he was writing it or did he more likely just put some chords together that sounded pretty?

    Could it not be analysed in terms of one key with some wonky chords in it and then maybe just one key change for the bridge?

  19. #68

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    ‘Wonky chords’ is not an analytical term. Yes the song modulates from Ab to C to Eb to G and back to Ab. This is not unusual in songs written in the AmerIcan Songbook. The movement through tonal centers mimics the notes of an Abma7 chord.

  20. #69

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    You're gonna love "Unforgettable." Ends on the Subdominant.

  21. #70

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    For ATTYA what's amazing is the way the melody note pivots to the key change. It's a seminar in harmony.

  22. #71

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    Padraig--keep in mind...the melody might have come first.

    But yeah, jazz tunes rarely stay in one key. But if you're trying to play over "Unforgettable" using key centers, you're in for a world of frustration anyway.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig
    ...Could it not be analysed in terms of one key with some wonky chords in it and then maybe just one key change for the bridge?
    What does your ear tell you?

  24. #73

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    Jerome Kern was one of the great composers of American music. Back in the early to middle 20th Century, composers and lyricists were very sophisticated, and wrote great melodies and witty lyrics, mostly for Broadway shows. That mostly died when rock and roll took over, and poured oceans of schlock over music. It doesn't take a lot of talent to write "yeah yeah yeah", nor to write an entire song with only two power chords. The Great American Songbook is still alive because of the harmonies and lyrics, and might become the classical music of the future.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    Jerome Kern was one of the great composers of American music. Back in the early to middle 20th Century, composers and lyricists were very sophisticated, and wrote great melodies and witty lyrics, mostly for Broadway shows. That mostly died when rock and roll took over, and poured oceans of schlock over music. It doesn't take a lot of talent to write "yeah yeah yeah", nor to write an entire song with only two power chords. The Great American Songbook is still alive because of the harmonies and lyrics, and might become the classical music of the future.
    Also...what we know as the standard types, AABA, ABAC, Rhythm Changes, etc. were not the "rule" in the early days. Those things came from the activity of those great popular composers. What we think of now as the various song forms were not so binding on them, because they were barely known. They also had a range of very different forms for the blues, whereas today we only know 12 bar, 12 bar with a bridge (pseudo AABA Blues) and maybe 16 bar blues. But they worked with more forms than that. The songs they wrote that became overhwelmingly popular also established a set of forms that became somewhat normative.

    But Jerome Kern, whom you rightly flag as a great one, was amazing at the forms he could develop. A tune like "I'm Old Fashioned" has a lot of twists and turns as you play it that you might not notice just listening to it.

    Maybe we need to revive some of the other GASB tunes? I really like Joe Pass' "Appassionato" album mainly because many of the tunes there were new to me. "That's Earl Brother," "Red Door," "Sleepy Time Down South" and "Stuffy" were wonderful surprises for me on that album.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    The Great American Songbook is still alive because of the harmonies and lyrics, and might become the classical music of the future.
    I think it already is the "classical music" of the future, that's why I like this stuff and want to know more about it. I just find it mad that there's no easier way of understanding a piece other than it changes key every few bars. That seems a very inefficient way of writing, almost like there is no key at all, it just goes where it wants.

    Or maybe there's a different way to understand it, like it's in one key but the harmony isn't diatonic or summat. I dunno.

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig
    I think it already is the "classical music" of the future, that's why I like this stuff and want to know more about it. I just find it mad that there's no easier way of understanding a piece other than it changes key every few bars. That seems a very inefficient way of writing, almost like there is no key at all, it just goes where it wants.

    Or maybe there's a different way to understand it, like it's in one key but the harmony isn't diatonic or summat. I dunno.
    The song is modulating but the key center doesn’t move. All the things you are doesn’t change key signatures. We move through “keys of the moment” knowing that the song will shift back to its home key.

  28. #77

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    I love how the A section returns, a fourth lower. Are there any other GASB tunes that do that?

  29. #78

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    An interesting thread, the GASB is a great source for Jazz players, although we might
    love BeBop, not all listeners are avid fans of it. but the Standards of which we speak
    are familiar to most listeners with a good ear.
    Having accumulated a large number of Real Books etc., I have a plethora of tunes to
    choose from, most of which were great vocal songs but are ideal for players to improvise
    upon eg., " I'm Glad There is You", The Folks who live on the Hill" ,My Foolish Heart"
    "Speak Low", "Spring is Here" "Violets for your Furs" etc., almost ad infinitum
    If they are unfamiliar to you , I suggest that you listen to some on YT if bored with
    churning out the same old hacks.
    just my 2p
    Last edited by silverfoxx; 05-28-2019 at 07:45 PM.

  30. #79

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    If the key actually changes, it will be indicated in the score. There are tunes which actually change keys, and that is specifically written. But ATTYA doesn't actually change keys, it just seems to, although the key signature never changes. It's convenient to think of it as changing keys for soloing, but it stays in Ab for the entire song. And it doesn't go where it wants, it goes where Kern intended it to go. He had a plan and he executed it perfectly.

  31. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig
    Explain...?
    Songs are free to modulate into keys of the moment knowing that the song will resolve back to its original key center. We don’t change the key signature within the sheet music every time this happens as it would be too difficult to keep track of. We treat these modulations with accidentals.
    For the tune Blue Moon in the key of Eb the B section modulates through three key centers. Eb, Gb and Bb before returning to its original key. The modulations give the sense the bridge is traveling to new places outside of the range of the A sections. We don’t, however, mark each of those short modulations with a new key signature in the sheet music as that would be too distracting to the reader. We use accidentals instead knowing that these short “keys of the moment” will resolve back to the original key center.

  32. #81

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    There's no law that says a song almost everyone would say is clearly in Bb major can't be scored with a key signature of Ab major, or A major... you'd just have a wonky score, hard to read, full of accidentals.

    From one perspective, the key is the key signature, whatever that might be on paper. From another perspective the key is really what almost everyone above says, and the score is wonky.

    But those are extreme cases; in actual practice it is parts of the song that deviate. It might be that the turnaround goes from the tonic major chord to the two chord being a thirteenth, before it goes "back into key" by changing to minor. Or there might be a longer section that deviates from harmonization.

    A single chord of the progression moving out of key for a second or two does not invoke a key change, and probably does not merit being considered as a key center shift or a re-assignment of "local key" or whatever... but a longer section might be thought of as having temporarily "moved".

    People have varying degrees to which they can bear a deviation or departure from the original key before they begin having trouble maintaining connection back to the key and begin to want to grasp where they are more clearly within the new context of it being a new moved key from the original key.

  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig
    Coming from a classical background this just doesn't add up to me. I'm used to pieces that stay in the same key for whole movements and several pages of music.
    Have you listened to Debussy? I don‘t pretend to be an expert but IMHO he is a master of avoiding the home key. This precedes ATTYA by half a century. I think you have that a lot in the second half of the 19th century, which is the music that the GASB composers were trained on.

    A little off topic:

    Much contemporary classical music doesn‘t really have one tonal center, although it is not atonal. I‘m thinking of Bernstein‘s Chichester Psalms which we are rehearsing at the moment. I sung a passage from John Rutter that moved to Ab minor (!) for some bars and then to A minor.


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