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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by randalljazz View Post
    so, basically, if it's pirating j zucker's work, then it's abominably criminal, but if it's pirating rich dead people's heirs work, then it's just naughty...
    I would think someone trying to learn to play jazz guitar would understand the difference between illegally downloading copywritten material and illegally distributing copywritten material.

    Spend 5 minutes doing some research. And quit with the ridiculous straw-man arguments. #LAME #FAIL

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52
    You have to keep in mind, that in the days of the old school, out of the back of the trunk Real Book, there was no legal alternative. Now that folks like Sher and Hal Leonard have a legal product, there's no need to buy a bootleg any more (legalize it?) With Sheets of Sound, it's not a question of buying a bootleg product because of a lack of alternatives, it a question of either paying an artist fairly for his creation or stealing from him.

    PK

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    I would think someone trying to learn to play jazz guitar would understand the difference between illegally downloading copywritten material and illegally distributing copywritten material.
    For the record, this discussion is about copyrighted material not copywritten. A copyright is literally the right to copy. When thought of in these terms, the malapropism can easily be avoided.

    Regards,
    Jerome

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulkogut View Post
    You have to keep in mind, that in the days of the old school, out of the back of the trunk Real Book, there was no legal alternative.
    Hey I resemble that. I remember the first fakebook I ever saw, my friends dad was a musician in the 40's and he showed me his dad's fakebook of standards. I remember looking for fakebooks and going to music stores rumoured to sell fakebooks and quietly asking, they'd reach under the counter and pull out a selection. It was like a rite of passage buying my first fakebook in the 70's a poorly xeroxed copy of the original Real Book and the myths that went with it. As BB said... The thrill is gone!
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    I would think someone trying to learn to play jazz guitar would understand the difference between illegally downloading copywritten material and illegally distributing copywritten material.

    Spend 5 minutes doing some research. And quit with the ridiculous straw-man arguments. #LAME #FAIL
    personal insult is the dying gasp of a lost debate...
    "Beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror, which we still are just able to endure, and we are are so awed because it serenely disdains to annihilate us." -- Ranier Maria Rilke

  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by randalljazz View Post
    personal insult is the dying gasp of a lost debate...
    I didn't realize there was a debate. Clearly you have no clue what you're talking about. You're just another anonymous cat around here slinging mud without revealing your true identity, demonstrating your ability to grasp even basic jazz concepts and in this thread not even having a basic understanding of the difference between using and distributing.
    Last edited by jzucker; 07-30-2014 at 08:06 PM.

  8. #57

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    I think some people are missing the maliciousness involved in the act of taking a 300 page book, scanning it in its entirety, and uploading it to an internet site, with no financial gain in return. The ONLY thing that act says is "F*** you, author." And that's positively despicable.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  9. #58

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    my point remains that there is no essential moral or ethical difference between stealing and receiving stolen goods. you can't stand on moral high ground with feet of sand.

    all the self-righteous bluster and vicious name-calling in the world will not change that one iota.
    "Beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror, which we still are just able to endure, and we are are so awed because it serenely disdains to annihilate us." -- Ranier Maria Rilke

  10. #59
    destinytot Guest
    What really saddens me is not the thought of
    "F*** you, author."
    , but the thought of "F*** you, teacher".

  11. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by randalljazz View Post
    my point remains that there is no essential moral or ethical difference between stealing and receiving stolen goods. you can't stand on moral high ground with feet of sand.

    all the self-righteous bluster and vicious name-calling in the world will not change that one iota.
    again you lack the ability to understand basic logic. First of all, i pointed out that both were wrong. Second of all, downloading something illegal is not as bad as maliciously distributing something illegal and if you spent 5 minutes researching the law you would understand this. I suspect you are attempting to justify your own poor behavior.

  12. #61

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    sad that you are unable to cope with a differing point of view without resorting to baseless allegations and personal attacks. i hope your day gets better.
    "Beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror, which we still are just able to endure, and we are are so awed because it serenely disdains to annihilate us." -- Ranier Maria Rilke

  13. #62
    destinytot Guest
    "Virtue debases in justifying itself." (Voltaire)

    randalljazz: Kindly cease and desist. You're in the wrong key and your timing couldn't be worse; your comments are mean-spirited to the point of being dishonourable.

    Moderator: I wish to register my disapproval of randalljazz's imputations.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop View Post
    Hey I resemble that. I remember the first fakebook I ever saw, my friends dad was a musician in the 40's and he showed me his dad's fakebook of standards. I remember looking for fakebooks and going to music stores rumoured to sell fakebooks and quietly asking, they'd reach under the counter and pull out a selection. It was like a rite of passage buying my first fakebook in the 70's a poorly xeroxed copy of the original Real Book and the myths that went with it. As BB said... The thrill is gone!
    Replace fakebook with Penthouse and BigButt Magazine and you'd be talking about me.

  15. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by randalljazz View Post
    sad that you are unable to cope with a differing point of view without resorting to baseless allegations and personal attacks. i hope your day gets better.
    how is my comment baseless accusastion?!? I'm wondering about your reading comprehension. I have said multiple times that it is wrong to download illegal material but you have said multiple times that you don't see the difference between downloading and distributing illegal material and I have challenged you and you have yet to give any citation for your point of view. Your point of view goes against the copyright laws of this country so you can state them all you want but they don't hold any water. Anyway, you're going into my blocked file so don't bother replying.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post

    Moderator: I wish to register my disapproval of randalljazz's imputations.
    I, a moderator, happened to see this, and your disapproval is duly noted, but for future reference, when you wish to report a post, click on the triangle in the blue shaded line running near the bottom of each post. That sends an email to all the mods and more, it provides a link to the offending post so that it easy to find and deal with. Thanks.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broyale View Post
    Replace fakebook with Penthouse and BigButt Magazine and you'd be talking about me.
    Oh yeah, now the thread is really going into the shitter......

    (By the by, I've never heard of BigButt Mag.? Thanks for the recommendation. Say what you like about Larry Flynt, at least, the centrefolds were tastefully shot unlike Oui! Magasin which did horrible things to women.)

  18. #67
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    I, a moderator, happened to see this, and your disapproval is duly noted, but for future reference, when you wish to report a post, click on the triangle in the blue shaded line running near the bottom of each post. That sends an email to all the mods and more, it provides a link to the offending post so that it easy to find and deal with. Thanks.
    Thank you, Mark.

  19. #68

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    The sad thing is that just working everyday type of musicians who offer a good product do get ripped off.

    I think that it is just how things have changed. When you can turn something into 1s and 0s, they become extremely transferable. Given the way things were it is a serious problem.

    Whenever a new technology is introduced there will be good and bad things taking place. Look at cars, we have a lot of freedom of movement but they cost a bunch and are a cause of a bunch of pollution. That is just looking at the tip of the iceberg. They effect of oil on forgiven policy is extreme. Some good and bad but no matter what profound.

    We invented computers. This was a huge shift in how we experience the world. We are far from knowing all the impacts that will happen. Here at the begaing of the shift the impacts have been insane. We will have to see what happens next.

    The problem is we have to create new systems to deal with this change. We can not go back to doing things the old way, that is gone.

    It is a multifaceted struggle to create how this technology impacts us. It can stay some what democratic or it can become like an ultimate machine for advertisers. If we just let things happen, the power players will shape into what is best for them. I am guessing we are close to that already.

    That is my prolix two cents. Peace

  20. #69

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    Ah that sucks Jack, I'm sorry to hear it.

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot View Post


    Moderator: I wish to register my disapproval of randalljazz's imputations.
    im not sure if imputations is a word

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Pickle View Post
    im not sure if imputations is a word
    If one thinks of an imputation as an accusation---and this is part of the dictionary definition----then the plural use seems abundantly clear if not commonly heard.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    Sucks that you have no talent of your own and need to resort to stealing others' work to feel better about yourself
    Whoa. Get over yourself, man.

    It was a joke, don't get so bent out of shape.

  24. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Loobs View Post
    Whoa. Get over yourself, man.

    It was a joke, don't get so bent out of shape.
    Yeah. That makes no sense.

  25. #74

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    Geez Jack - that is Romania. RO-MAN-IA. Place that was Rome's penal colony - they sent the dredges of their society there (except for child molesters which was in vogue back then). And then it was Causescu's own private torture amusement park. Sub-Saharan Africa and Europe intersect there. These folks are poor poor poor. But they love jazz and they love your book. And you want to break their fingers? Shame on you.

  26. #75

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    Stealing's theft whichever way you look at it and what excuse you use.

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Stealing's theft whichever way you look at it and what excuse you use.
    So you think people in sub-Saharan Africa should pay full price for AIDS medications?

  28. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by woland View Post
    So you think people in sub-Saharan Africa should pay full price for AIDS medications?
    Sounds like you're saying that it's ok to steal pretty much *anything* ( we're not talking about medical literature here) because of the AIDS crisis in Africa. Is that what you're saying?

    " Theft is theft" is still a true statement. What any of us would do to save a dying family member doesn't really have anything to do with a conversation about a music book that someone else put life energy into creating .

  29. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by randalljazz View Post
    will everyone who has never used an illegal fake book please stand up...that's different because...never mind...

    Yeah I've done that and it was wrong.

    I think the problem with that position and why you and Jack aren't seeing eye to eye is, perhaps you are taking a black and white view. Many (including myself) see shades of grey.

    Jaywalking vs. armed robbery... both against the law, both 'wrong', but there is a difference in how much harm they do.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  30. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Sounds like you're saying that it's ok to steal pretty much *anything* ( we're not talking about medical literature here) because of the AIDS crisis in Africa. Is that what you're saying?

    " Theft is theft" is still a true statement. What any of us would do to save a dying family member doesn't really have anything to do with a conversation about a music book that someone else put life energy into creating .
    Right but we do not amputate hand at the wrist for that anymore. Such absolutism in thinking only leads to suffering and oppression. There is always a context - and you cannot ignore it. Would I steal loaf of bread to feed my starving family? You bet. So what about the kid in Romania that could feed himself for 3 weeks for the price of Jack's book. Should he/she go hungry or should he abandon his/her dream of playing jazz - music of the land of the free. I am ignoring the fact here that fat kid in Australia has access to same scribd - but lets solve third world jazz problems first.
    Last edited by woland; 08-22-2014 at 02:28 PM.

  31. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by woland View Post
    Right but we do not amputate hand at the wrist for that anymore. Such absolutism in thinking only leads to suffering and oppression. There is always a context - and you cannot ignore it. Would I steal loaf of bread to feed my starving family? You bet.
    I'm sure we'd all do whatever it took if it came down to it, but why are we talking about dying, starving children? We're talking about someone's life work and livelyhood.

    What do you do to provide for yourself, and are you really ok with me stealing your paycheck? The fact that I need to provide for myself doesn't change the fact that you are sovereign as well, and have the right to provide for your own livelihood .

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Yeah. That makes no sense.
    Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not.

    I find it interesting that Zucker made a judgement on my playing too. Wonder where he heard me play.

  33. #82

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    Jack never downloaded a single piece of music for free. Sure.

  34. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    I'm sure we'd all do whatever it took if it came down to it, but why are we talking about dying, starving children? We're talking about someone's life work and livelyhood.

    What do you do to provide for yourself, and are you really ok with me stealing your paycheck? The fact that I need to provide for myself doesn't change the fact that you are sovereign as well, and have the right to provide for your own livelihood .
    If Jack is starving because he cannot afford food we would help him. But we would not help him if he was starving spiritually - eg could not afford buying original 1st pressing of 78s of Robert Johnson song. And he does not have to make that choice either. I am not saying it is always OK to steal from Jack. But perhaps that is a grey area for a kid Romania that would have to make such choice. Laws are ok if you can afford to comply with them.
    Edit:
    For the record - I have the highest respect for Jack as author, educator, player and tireless contributor to several jazz forums. I started to reply here just to point that in some countries realities of life are bleak. Should they be even bleaker without jazz? Don't people make enough in the 1st world?
    Last edited by woland; 08-22-2014 at 02:51 PM.

  35. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by woland View Post
    Right but we do not amputate hand at the wrist for that anymore. Such absolutism in thinking only leads to suffering and oppression. There is always a context - and you cannot ignore it. Would I steal loaf of bread to feed my starving family? You bet. So what about the kid in Romania that could feed himself for 3 weeks for the price of Jack's book. Should he/she go hungry or should he abandon his/her dream of playing jazz - music of the land of the free. I am ignoring the fact here that fat kid in Australia has access to same scribd - but lets solve third world jazz problems first.
    The fat (rich) kid in Australia is probably having 'private lessons' with an Aussie Jzucker. and going to an expensive Private school with a music program. Poor kids in Australia couldn't give a rats ass about what is now 'Jazz' and I don't blame em.

  36. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Loobs View Post
    Whoa. Get over yourself, man.

    It was a joke, don't get so bent out of shape.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loobs View Post
    Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not.

    I find it interesting that Zucker made a judgement on my playing too. Wonder where he heard me play.
    Sorry. No. Not agreeing. I didn't hear anything in your original that sounded like you were joking, and I don't see how you could possibly have thought that Jack would get a chuckle out of it either. I guess you just have a really peculiar sense of humor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loobs View Post
    Jack never downloaded a single piece of music for free. Sure.
    It sounds like you're saying that it's OK to rip *anyone* off because they probably ripped someone else off at some point in their life. Is that really what you're saying?

    Again, what do you do for a living, and in what ways is your livelihood compromised in similar ways to Jack's when someone takes your product? Do you actually produce something or do you just get paid for showing up?

    I, myself, teach music some of the time and have had years of experience with people treating my time as a commodity, while they believe they have "rights" to cancel for any reason and otherwise disregard my time and my ability to provide for my family. I have to actually spend time explaining through my 2-page policy sheet why my time is no less valuable than theirs. If you're a musician, people often don't tend to think of what you do as being "real".

    I think there is a big difference between ripping people off in the privacy of your own home, and saying on a public forum that it's just OK to rip people off. Honestly, I can't control what anyone does on their own, nor do I wish to. But the fact that we've all done things that we think aren't "right" doesn't change the fact that a worker should be paid for his work.

    If you want to talk about grey areas and illegal fake books (of which there was no legal alternative for decades?), whatever. You can continue to rip people off and it won't affect the upper levels of corporate publishers or the highest levels of educators and popular artists, but the marginal, niche areas like jazz guitar instruction will be gone from the publishing world if we do as you're suggesting.

    And, yes. I get that there are starving people in the world. But I think we're talking about a guitar book?
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 08-22-2014 at 04:51 PM.

  37. #86

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    Fun, fun fun.

    This thread is a good example of why I am reluctant to post, even in a fairly civilized forum such as this.

    I await your anger, personal attacks, and name-calling for this post.

  38. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCPete View Post
    Fun, fun fun.

    This thread is a good example of why I am reluctant to post, even in a fairly civilized forum such as this.

    I await your anger, personal attacks, and name-calling for this post.
    I think you first have to poke the bear in order to anger him.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  39. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Sorry. No. Not agreeing. I didn't hear anything in your original that sounded like you were joking, and I don't see how you could possibly have thought that Jack would get a chuckle out of it either. I guess you just have a really peculiar sense of humor.



    It sounds like you're saying that it's OK to rip *anyone* off because they probably ripped someone else off at some point in their life. Is that really what you're saying?

    Again, what do you do for a living, and in what ways is your livelihood compromised in similar ways to Jack's when someone takes your product? Do you actually produce something or do you just get paid for showing up?

    I, myself, teach music some of the time and have had years of experience with people treating my time as a commodity, while they believe they have "rights" to cancel for any reason and otherwise disregard my time and my ability to provide for my family. I have to actually spend time explaining through my 2-page policy sheet why my time is no less valuable than theirs. If you're a musician, people often don't tend to think of what you do as being "real".

    I think there is a big difference between ripping people off in the privacy of your own home, and saying on a public forum that it's just OK to rip people off. Honestly, I can't control what anyone does on their own, nor do I wish to. But the fact that we've all done things that we think aren't "right" doesn't change the fact that a worker should be paid for his work.

    If you want to talk about grey areas and illegal fake books (of which there was no legal alternative for decades?), whatever. You can continue to rip people off and it won't affect the upper levels of corporate publishers or the highest levels of educators and popular artists, but the marginal, niche areas like jazz guitar instruction will be gone from the publishing world if we do as you're suggesting.

    And, yes. I get that there are starving people in the world. But I think we're talking about a guitar book?
    I wouldn't say peculiar. It was a harmless piece of ribbing.

  40. #89

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    Nonetheless, it was OK for Jack to say I had 'no talent'.

    Is it a coincidence nearlyv every thread this guy starts turns to shit?

  41. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loobs View Post
    Nonetheless, it was OK for Jack to say I had 'no talent'.

    Is it a coincidence nearlyv every thread this guy starts turns to shit?
    My internet rule of thumb is once threads go past a page or two they start to fall apart. They get off topic, or go into minutia that can start arguments, or just implode for various reasons. I personally start skipping or scanning threads after a page two, helps keep my blood pressure down.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  42. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by woland View Post
    Right but we do not amputate hand at the wrist for that anymore. Such absolutism in thinking only leads to suffering and oppression. There is always a context - and you cannot ignore it. Would I steal loaf of bread to feed my starving family? You bet. So what about the kid in Romania that could feed himself for 3 weeks for the price of Jack's book. Should he/she go hungry or should he abandon his/her dream of playing jazz - music of the land of the free. I am ignoring the fact here that fat kid in Australia has access to same scribd - but lets solve third world jazz problems first.
    Don't know where amputation came in, but "context"? Let's have some on both sides. We can talk about the difference in situation for a Romanian kid, but illicitly "publishing" an entire book for the entire world to download without paying the author isn't the same as burning a friend's CD or something. Let's have some context there. If you're saying that the only way for him to not "abandon his dream" is to have anyone's entire book "published" publicly for free, I think that's way off.

    "Let's solve third world jazz problems first."...at whose expense? Yours? When this kid takes an amp from your music store? When he steals a week's pay from you?

    If someone robs you and takes a week's pay from you, you are rightly indignant, not just because of the robbery, or even for what may be a relatively small amount of money for you, but because that paycheck symbolizes your life energy. That week of your life (that you spent doing work away from your family and at the expense of other important things that you could have done) can't be replaced. It just seems like we're being really easy with someone else's life energy and work when we say "it's no big deal".

    I'm a musician. I have to play music. If it's been too long, I get irritable and all of that, but all that being said, that particular book is not more essential to anyone's "life", "dream" or whatever else than it is to the author! The harm done to the author by publishing it worldwide far outweighs the supposed benefit to individual Romanian kids with a "need" for jazz. Sorry. Jazz isn't food.

    If I'm in the rare position of 1)having a computer with internet access and 2) being unable to pay for music, I probably need to make use of the lifetime's worth of free materials on the world wide web for playing jazz guitar from the legends who created this music.

  43. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCPete View Post
    Fun, fun fun.

    This thread is a good example of why I am reluctant to post, even in a fairly civilized forum such as this.

    I await your anger, personal attacks, and name-calling for this post.
    Amongst our weapons are anger, attacks and name calling...

  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    "Let's solve third world jazz problems first."...at whose expense? Yours? When this kid takes an amp from your music store? When he steals a week's pay from you?
    (...)
    The harm done to the author by publishing it worldwide far outweighs the supposed benefit to individual Romanian kids with a "need" for jazz. Sorry. Jazz isn't food.
    Actually I am quite sure who is stealing my paycheck and trust me - it is not poor Romanian kid that scanned the books just so other Romanian orphans in a polluted, cancer infested, dying mining town of Aninoasa can brighten their day by playing sheets of shound.
    Besides I think that most people are not thieves not because the opportunity was not there but simply because people are trying to do the right thing as long as they can afford it.
    And yes - jazz is food for the soul. I explained to you that the price of Jack's book may be equal to couple weeks of food supply in some places. Just like we should not try to take advantage of AIDS crisis in sub-Saharan Africa to make big pharma even richer I think that same could be done to supporting access to culture. Not that Jack should necessarily be the person financing it. But as a big picture.

  45. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by woland View Post
    Actually I am quite sure who is stealing my paycheck and trust me - it is not poor Romanian kid that scanned the books just so other Romanian orphans in a polluted, cancer infested, dying mining town of Aninoasa can brighten their day by playing sheets of shound.
    Besides I think that most people are not thieves not because the opportunity was not there but simply because people are trying to do the right thing as long as they can afford it.
    And yes - jazz is food for the soul. I explained to you that the price of Jack's book may be equal to couple weeks of food supply in some places. Just like we should not try to take advantage of AIDS crisis in sub-Saharan Africa to make big pharma even richer I think that same could be done to supporting access to culture. Not that Jack should necessarily be the person financing it. But as a big picture.
    I think it's crazy to compare big pharma with an independent book author in a jazz guitar niche, but then, I didn't expect the Spanish inquisition.... :-)

    Have a great weekend!

  46. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    I think it's crazy to compare big pharma with an independent book author in a jazz guitar niche, but then, I didn't expect the Spanish inquisition.... :-)

    Have a great weekend!
    You too mate.
    While I cannot proclaim complete innocence in the area of copied real books... my jazz guitar bookshelve_s_ speak for themselves - I think I must have singlehandedly fed, clothed and put roof over the heads of entire generation of jazz educators and their families.

  47. #96

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    This is getting nuts and not in the good way.

    No one knows anything about the circumstances of the person who uploaded Jack's book to scribd.

    No one even knows for sure the person is Romanian. (Many people route their signals through distant servers to make their location hard to trace.)

    Whoever uploaded the book to scribd had full access to it BEFORE uploading it.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  48. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    This is getting nuts and not in the good way.

    No one knows anything about the circumstances of the person who uploaded Jack's book to scribd.

    No one even knows for sure the person is Romanian. (Many people route their signals through distant servers to make their location hard to trace.)

    Whoever uploaded the book to scribd had full access to it BEFORE uploading it.
    All true. My argument about dispossessed Romanian orphan from a dying mining town dreaming about playing jazz music that espouses freedom was merely to demonstrate that not all people out there are motivated by greed or malice. You look at them as "Romanian thieves" but they look at us as fat Americans that already have enough stuff and really should not complain. And upload? Out of solidarity with the dispossessed orphans everywhere.

  49. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by woland View Post
    All true. My argument about dispossessed Romanian orphan from a dying mining town dreaming about playing jazz music that espouses freedom was merely to demonstrate that not all people out there are motivated by greed or malice. You look at them as "Romanian thieves" but they look at us as fat Americans that already have enough stuff and really should not complain. And upload? Out of solidarity with the dispossessed orphans everywhere.
    That is not an argument. It is a fantasy. It is possible for people be motivated by something other than greed or malice, but for all you know, THAT PERSON was motivated by both!
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  50. #99

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    "All true. My argument about dispossessed Romanian orphan from a dying mining town dreaming about playing jazz music that espouses freedom was merely to demonstrate that not all people out there are motivated by greed or malice. You look at them as "Romanian thieves" but they look at us as fat Americans that already have enough stuff and really should not complain. And upload? Out of solidarity with the dispossessed orphans everywhere."

    So are you saying it's ok for some orphan to steal a guitar to play the stolen music on? Oh by the way I'm neither American or fat.

  51. #100

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    These types of issues pre-date the Internet. This is a good article to check out, although it's more about the music industry generally than print material. Easy to read and informative:
    http://www.jthtl.org/content/article...9i1_Lemley.PDF
    Last edited by wildschwein; 12-09-2014 at 09:27 PM.