Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Posts 1 to 50 of 55
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    This is a backing track for "misty" (vocal) in Ab, It is a BIAB real tracks version.


    Misty--->Misty in Ab (vocal)_Render.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

    PDF lead sheet---->Misty.pdf - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

    Hope this works for you all.

    wiz

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    Here's a video...



    I'd love to talk harmony on this one, as well as favorite keys...

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    Nice take Jeff.
    Here is a take from a while back, Eric Alxeander takes a really great solo here.

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    Well done Jeff! I especially liked the your choice of chord voicings and the natural swing feel you have on this one.

    wiz

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    That's beautiful, Jeff. Thanks for sharing.

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Here's a video...
    Awesome Jeff, you are really playing great, better than ever I think.

    Okay now post a transcription so we can all learn from this. (just kidding )

    Is it a transcription if you notate your own playing? hmmm

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Soco
    Nice take Jeff.
    Here is a take from a while back, Eric Alxeander takes a really great solo here.
    No kidding, Eric wow! Digging your playing too, Soco, I love when you mix in a blues line here and there. You guys can play forever and not run out of ideas.

  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I'd love to talk harmony on this one, as well as favorite keys...
    Well here's something about the first few chords:

    "Oh (C)give me a (C7)home, where the (F)buffalo (Fm)roam, and the
    (C)dear and the antelope (G7)play.

    C | C7 | F | Fm | C | G7 |

    becomes

    Cmaj7 | Gm7 C9 | Fmaj7 | Fm7 | Cmaj7 Am7 | Dm7 G7 |

    and that's the first part of Misty. It's just Home on The Range.

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Awesome Jeff, you are really playing great, better than ever I think.

    Okay now post a transcription so we can all learn from this. (just kidding )

    Is it a transcription if you notate your own playing? hmmm

    Thanks!

    It'd be a transcription for sure for me, because who knows what I'm going to do once I get going...I have this idea in my head, but it all goes to hell as soon as I make my first mental slip...then it's pretty much "how well do I know the song? Looks like we'll find out!"

    ...I love making these youtube videos so I can watch as I paint myself into a corner and see how (or if) I get out of it! I'm actually learning a bunch from it--it's like a video journal.

    One thing for sure--I'm using the "walk down from the ninth to the root" on dominant chords a bit much, methinks...

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by fep

    and that's the first part of Misty. It's just Home on The Range.
    Well, ain't that a kick in the head? How am I not gonna quote "Range" in my solo for evermore on Misty now?

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    No kidding, Eric wow! Digging your playing too, Soco, I love when you mix in a blues line here and there. You guys can play forever and not run out of ideas.
    Thanks for the kind words, as a matter of fact he just started playing the tune and it took me a few rounds before I remembered the changes. it is a great tune, but it doesn't get called too often around here.

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    Finally got to listen...yeah, that's smokin'.

    I love when folks are unafraid to get bluesy on a "pretty" song.

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Finally got to listen...yeah, that's smokin'.

    I love when folks are unafraid to get bluesy on a "pretty" song.
    Thanks Jeff. Playing bluesy on a tune like this almost gives the same effects as playing outside. It works quite well on some ballads, I think I have done it on Chelsea Bridge as well.

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    1) Can I join you guys?
    2) Are you still working on Misty?

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jster
    1) Can I join you guys?
    2) Are you still working on Misty?
    Yes and yes. These "practical standards" threads lately have been lasting one month. I think we need some more activity on this one. You can always post to the old threads too.

    Thanks for reminding me, I wanted to post a recording for this one too. I better get to work.

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Yes and yes. These "practical standards" threads lately have been lasting one month. I think we need some more activity on this one. You can always post to the old threads too.

    Thanks for reminding me, I wanted to post a recording for this one too. I better get to work.
    I love to say be careful what you wish for, but in this case, I'll just have settle for be careful what you agree to. Hehe. So if I get out of hand fep you'll just have to send me a PM and tell me to take it easy! I won't bore folks with any biography. I'll just get straight to it.

    OK, I learned the melody and the chords. But:

    1) How should I play the chords?? Typically I just record the chords and then play melody and a solo to the recording. But I just learned all the drop 2 and 3 chords, so I want to use them, but I don't know when I can use the ones without the root in the bass. Are there any rules of thumb for that? Can somebody point me to a thread? I guess that would be the same as if you were accompanying a singer all by yourself. Are you stuck always playing chords with the bass in that case? Do I need a band to use the other voicings?

    2) I looked at some of the other practical standards threads and you guys don't seem to spend a lot of time discussing how to solo over these things. Can I talk about that? I can use arpeggios now pretty well. But how can I supplement that? I guess that means chord-scale theory or whatever you call that Mark Levine stuff. Any ideas for Misty in that direction?

    I'll leave it at that because as you can see, I'm going to be a regular (and I do mean regular) pain in the arse, asking all manner of flatfooted question. (block that metaphor!)

    Thanks.

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jster
    I love to say be careful what you wish for, but in this case, I'll just have settle for be careful what you agree to. Hehe. So if I get out of hand fep you'll just have to send me a PM and tell me to take it easy! I won't bore folks with any biography. I'll just get straight to it.

    OK, I learned the melody and the chords. But:

    1) How should I play the chords?? Typically I just record the chords and then play melody and a solo to the recording. But I just learned all the drop 2 and 3 chords, so I want to use them, but I don't know when I can use the ones without the root in the bass. Are there any rules of thumb for that? Can somebody point me to a thread? I guess that would be the same as if you were accompanying a singer all by yourself. Are you stuck always playing chords with the bass in that case? Do I need a band to use the other voicings?

    2) I looked at some of the other practical standards threads and you guys don't seem to spend a lot of time discussing how to solo over these things. Can I talk about that? I can use arpeggios now pretty well. But how can I supplement that? I guess that means chord-scale theory or whatever you call that Mark Levine stuff. Any ideas for Misty in that direction?

    I'll leave it at that because as you can see, I'm going to be a regular (and I do mean regular) pain in the arse, asking all manner of flatfooted question. (block that metaphor!)

    Thanks.
    Hey jster, those questions, that's what these threads are all about. If you go back to the early version of these threads (I think it was around Nov 2010), there was a lot of discussions on these threads. It's really just goes the way the posts lead it, posts exactly like yours.

    I've never been able to remember what these drop this that and the other chords mean. Maybe I already know some, but I don't know them by that fancy terminology. I will say this, I don't always play the root. I'm more likely to play roots when there isn't a backing track though. I just go for what sounds good to me. In jazz it seems one can take a lot of liberties.

    Your second question: Great question and yes those are great things to discuss on these threads. Not everyone approaches this the same way but I'll briefly try to describe how I currently approach it.

    Most of the time (always and never are non musical terms):

    1st I'm working off of a picture of a chord. Let's say for example, a G7 chord at the third fret.

    On top of that chord is the arpeggios which I also think of as being the chord.

    On top of that are various scales to choose from such as, mixolydian, blues, penatonic, diminished, whole tone, altered. I might use them but I'm not really conscious of their names, to me it's all just a bunch of G7 stuff.

    There are also licks that I tend to use, that are mostly just based off all that stuff I mentioned above.

    And chromatic notes to add some notes between where I started and where I'm fixing on landing.

    But mostly I'm thinking chord tones and using this other stuff to go from one chord tone to another, and often the "another" chord tone is a chord tone of the next chord coming up.

    Say I start on the D of a G7 chord and want to end on an E of a Cmaj chord. I might just go up chromatically, I might do some sort of bluesy lick and then land on the E, I might Play an arpeggio and land on the E, or an altered scale and land on the E, etc.

    Using this chord tone approach, I believe it is easier to stick ideas/licks/scales etc. into my ear. My reasoning is the Chord Tones limit the number of note choices to the ones that to me are really important. Isolating those tones in my mind, ear and eye creates landmarks on the fretboard that I can anchor on and relate too.

    I should add, to use this approach you need to be aware of where you are in the chord progression at any given time. I'm basically playing solos over the chord shapes that I might have been comping with if I wasn't soloing at the moment.

    Does that make any sense or is it too much blah blah blah?
    Last edited by fep; 03-27-2012 at 05:32 PM.

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    I put this together today. I had to get creative and do it in two pieces. 1) the intro and 2) the part with the backing track. That is the only way I could figure out how to come in with the backing track in time the way I did.

    Both parts are 1st takes, I'd like to take some more shots at it as there are some bits I didn't like too much, but that's the way it always is with me. I can do take after take until the cows come home. So I'll stick with this, at least it's raw.

    Last edited by fep; 03-27-2012 at 06:16 PM.

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    Where's the 'Like..!' button..? What..? Oh, well, 'Like...', there, that's better...
    Very nice, Fep; sober, lucid, serious, intellegent... I could go on. That's the way to do it..! Thank you, sir.

  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    Loved it Fep. Thanks for sharing.

  22. #21

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dad3353
    Where's the 'Like..!' button..? What..? Oh, well, 'Like...', there, that's better...
    Very nice, Fep; sober, lucid, serious, intellegent... I could go on. That's the way to do it..! Thank you, sir.
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Glen
    Loved it Fep. Thanks for sharing.
    Yes, definitely 'sober'. Thanks so much for listening and your encouragement. Cheers.

  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I put this together today. I had to get creative and do it in two pieces. 1) the intro and 2) the part with the backing track. That is the only way I could figure out how to come in with the backing track in time the way I did.

    Both parts are 1st takes, I'd like to take some more shots at it as there are some bits I didn't like too much, but that's the way it always is with me. I can do take after take until the cows come home. So I'll stick with this, at least it's raw.

    Nice job!

  24. #23

    User Info Menu

    Thanks for the long replay fep. Right now, all I do is use arpeggios. I don't know what else to do. I could add a few bluesy licks and I could put in some chromaticism. But, I have no idea when to use the whole tone scale. Sure one takes liberties in jazz, but I don't exactly what I am taking liberties from! I always thought there was some way of analyzing a tune like this bar for bar that would give you ways of using modes. What would a "full analysis" of the tune look like?? When I look at jazz web pages, usually what I see is something that I am beyond or something that is beyond me. I thought that if I learned all the modes of MM, then I all kinds of doors would open up. But rather, it just seems like there is all this controversy about whether chord-scale theory is any good. Whoa! So what am I to do with my MM modes? I watch Reg's videos and some of it is working its way into my brain through osmosis. But his explanations are so advanced, he sees all kinds of possibilities. I just want to know the handful of most likely ways of approaching soloing over a tune. I looked at the lessons on this site, and there is some good stuff, but most of it is too basic for me, or so it seems. I mean guys go on about the II-V-I and for good reason. Sure they are the chords leading into the final resolution. Sure they are all modes of the same scale. And I can use my arpeggios and dip a bit into the modes and make it sound pretty good. Grandma approves. But isn't there something else? The classical sites do a somewhat better job of giving intermediate level info. But the jazz sites seem to jump from basic to a zillion possibilities. I thought there was some kind of developed "functional harmony" theory that I would be using. (I may not have a clue what I am talking about!) I guess the exception, the most intermediate book, is the Levine book. I own it, but it is in another country. And as I said before, it seems controversial. But am I just supposed to think of jazz as like making pizza? Choose your toppings. We got 23 toppings, so you got 23, or really 23x23 ways to proceed. I didn't think we could take that many liberties! Now maybe I am just being lazy and I am supposed to look at the CST tables and see what modes I am allowed to use for each chord. But that doesn't take into account what is going on in the tune. And so seems rather hit or miss.
    Last edited by jster; 03-28-2012 at 01:52 PM.

  25. #24

    User Info Menu

    Hi jster,

    First, please do me a favor and put more separation in your posts with paragraphs. It hard on my eyes to read that many sentences bunched together.

    My previous post is the advice I really am going to give you on this subject.

    I've learned a ton of music theory, a lot of it I'm not planning on using any time soon. Yes, I know all that modal stuff and CST, I just don't like to think that way.

    I've seen forum members go in a million different directions discussing theories but when I hear them play, I quickly see that they are concentrating on the wrong things.

    I might give them constructive criticism that they came up with a real complex arrangement which is true enough. And then I might suggest they try to play it with a metronome. I try to be positive in my comments but what I see is that their timing was bad and consequently the performance just sounds bad.

    I see it in myself. My theory knowledge is way beyond my playing. Advanced in theory and a beginner in playing jazz guitar. Definitely not something I'm proud of. I've put an end to studying theory for the time being.

    When I've been critiqued on this forum or at my college juries or recitals etc. I've never heard anyone say, "you need to know your modes better". I've never heard anyone say, "play more melodic minor modes".

    I have heard them say, "When you started the comping with a walking bass line your timing lagged". Or, "Try putting more chord stabs interspersed in your solo". Or, "You had a really good groove on that second chorus.

    I could quickly see the hierarchy of things. Feel, dynamics, groove, the build and structure of a solo, much more important than knowing a bunch of fancy scales/modes.

    I don't know if all this applies to you, specifically that you're trying to absorb a bunch of theory, but not working on your groove and learning songs and building vocabulary. I think I see this in a lot of forum members.

    Check out this video by Reg.



    To me this is some great sounding jazz. Reg, doesn't do anything fancy, mostly the basic scales and some blues licks and blue notes. What makes it so good? It grooves and it's musical.

    If you go to Post #110 on this page, I have a link to where I notated the solo.

    https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/theor...y-group-4.html

    If all this doesn't apply to you, I apologize. If not, not a complete loss, I know it applies to some.

  26. #25

    User Info Menu

    Hi again jster,

    I will do a quick and basic analysis. These are the chords I like, they may or may not follow your chart. Here is the A section, this is a real simple approach. Play this and add some blue notes or blues licks.

    Like I said, this is not my approach as I start by thinking chord tones not scales. But I think this the simple part of what you're asking for.

    And if you want to use a MM mode, play the Bb altered scale over the Bb7 or over both the | Fm7 Bb7| , just resolve it to a chord tone of the Ebmaj7, the third would be a good choice.


    Code:
    Ebmaj7  |       |  Bm7             | Eb9        |
    Ebmaj scale        Abmaj scale
    
    |Abmaj7  |Abm7  Db9 | Ebmaj7 Cm7 | Fm7 Bb7 |
            Ab dorian    Ebmaj scale
    
    Gm7   C7  | Fm7  Bb7  ||
    G dorian    Eb maj scale
    I'm getting tired, how about you do the rest of the progression. And I'll comment on what you come up with. And post yourself playing on this, it's so hard to continue without hearing you. For all I know you may be way over my head and all this is for not.
    Last edited by fep; 03-28-2012 at 04:31 PM.

  27. #26

    User Info Menu

    100 Must Know Jazz Standards Consensus List - YouTube

    Here is a Youtube playlist I put together. It's the top 100 Must Know Jazz Standards, based on committee votes from Houston's HSPVA (High School for the Performing and Visual Arts). I didn't pick any of these tunes, and I didn't post or own any of the videos, I only put together the playlist.. I do however own alot of the albums, and so should you.

  28. #27

    User Info Menu

    Abmaj7 |Eb-7 Ab7 |Dbmaj7 |Db-7 Gb7 |
    Ab maj scale Db maj scale Db dorian

    Abmaj7 F-7 |Bb-7 Eb7 |C-7 F7 |Bb-7 Eb7 |
    Ab maj scale C dorian Ab maj scale

    Abmaj7 |Eb-7 Ab7 |Dbmaj7 |Db-7 Gb7 |
    repeat of bars 1-4

    Abmaj7 F-7 |Bb-7 Eb7 |Ab6 | |
    Ab maj scale

    Eb-7 |Ab7b9 |Dbmaj7 | |
    Db maj scale Ab HW Db maj scale

    D-7 |G7 Bb7 |Cm7b5 F7b9 |Bb-7 Eb7 |
    C maj scale BbMixb13 CLocNat2 FHW Ab maj scale

    Abmaj7 |Eb-7 Ab7 |Dbmaj7 |Db-7 Gb7 |
    repeat of bars 1-4

    Abmaj7 F-7 |Bb-7 Eb7 |Ab6 |Bb-7 Eb7 |
    mostly repeat of bars 13-16 --All Ab maj scale

    _________________________________________________
    Bars 17-20
    OK, after some research, we see we need Ab HW for the Ab7b9.
    but what is the best before and after that?
    I guess Dbmaj scale makes the most sense, although we lose two
    chord tones of Eb-7 going into the Ab HW and we lack one chord of
    Dbmaj7 coming out of the HW. Close as we can get??_____________________________________________ ____
    Bars 22-23
    Working backwards
    Need F HW for F7b9 >> F Gb Ab A B C D Eb
    Does this work for Cm7b5?
    No! What do do??
    Hmmm.
    OK, let's go from the other side.
    The G7 looks like we should just treat it with C maj scale
    as we come out of the D-7. II-V. OK.
    And the B7 is rather stark change, so probably OK to jump to
    something new.
    So can we find something for the Bb7 and the Cm7b5?
    Let me look at my MM modes.
    Yes, it seems we can use the 5th and 6th modes of MM over these two chords.
    So I would use Eb MM over these two chords.
    Double check: Eb F Gb Ab Bb C D are the notes. Yes both chords are in there.
    Put the fancy names of the modes in the chart. Hehe.

    __________________________________________________ __

    General Comments and Questions:

    1) All I did was identify the key of the tune, isolate the II-V(-I)'s, use HW for
    the b9 chords, and then get lucky finding a bit of MM for a couple of chords.

    2) I didn't include the two intro bars in my bar counting. Was I supposed to?

    3) At no point did I think about "tonal centers." Should I have done so?

    4) I used the pdf from the beginning of the thread and so this is in a different key.
    Figured that would be better if anybody else wants to comment. But if you want I can do
    the other key.

    5) I wouldn't say this is the first time I have ever done this, but for all intents and purposes, this is the first time I have ever done this. How to do this is more than anything else what I don't know how to do/want to know how to do.

    6) OK, now I am going to see how it sounds.

    Thanks.


    UPDATE: Damned formatting. It looked good before. Argh. I'll see what I can do.
    UPDATE II: Removed all the tabs, but still looks like gunk. Argh again.
    Last edited by jster; 03-29-2012 at 06:48 AM.

  29. #28

    User Info Menu

    Hey jster,

    Looks good and going to hear how it sounds, that's an important step. Right on.

    As an option, where you have the HW scales you can also play altered scales. Where you have Db dorian, you can also play DbMM.

    Cheers

  30. #29

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Hey jster,

    Looks good and going to hear how it sounds, that's an important step. Right on.

    As an option, where you have the HW scales you can also play altered scales. Where you have Db dorian, you can also play DbMM.

    Cheers
    Thanks fep for your time. I really appreciate it.

    1) I thought about the altered scale, but what about the natural 5th? Don't I need it? (Assuming I am playing with a band.)

    2) How can I use DbMM for Db dorian? Don't I need the b7?

    3) More generally, if we take consider the -7 chords, what about all the other modes? There are five other modes of the major scale and of the MM scale that "fit" them, plus modes of HM. How do we decide to reject most of them? What is the algorithm? Of course we want to play what sounds good. But just sticking with the theory,...what is the theory at this precise point?

    4) The most interesting bars, 17-24, pass relatively quickly, but I am treating them as an exercise, looping them, and trying to really explore what is going on there. What happens is that modes are opening some doors, but there are also some avoid notes that I am noticing, and when I avoid them, I feel like I am almost being led to some cliches. Perhaps I am just being led back to the arpeggios? I dunno. I'll have to get back to you about that.

    5) Yeah, I didn't respond to some of the things you said earlier. I am really trying to explore all the harmonic approaches available for the tune, because that is my weakest point. I am much more interested right now in what is possible than what sounds good or best. But I completely agree with your claims about the priority of rhythm and feel.
    Last edited by jster; 03-30-2012 at 04:56 AM.

  31. #30

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Soco
    Nice job!
    Thanks Soco

  32. #31

    User Info Menu

    I know it's about over... but I played Misty at gig earlier tonight... Was in Eb, which I think is standard... anyway here's a quick playing analysis in key of thread, Ab. I down loaded Howie's chart and just played through... It's very rough... but maybe I'll try and play through with backing track tomorrow...
    If anyone would like more details of how I pull from Melodic Minor for blue notes... as opposed to harmonic minor and pentatonic blue notes... I'll posts some samples... check video out and ask about anything and I'll break it down... remember it's not a showcase example... just reading through for analysis info...

    Reg

  33. #32

    User Info Menu

    Hey Reg! Welcome back! Nice analysis, very practical chord melody approach with a nice bluesey sound. BTW, many of the backing tracks I post are in the key my wife (vocalist for Starlight) sings them in.

    wiz
    Last edited by wizard3739; 04-01-2012 at 11:47 AM.

  34. #33

    User Info Menu

    Hey Howie... thanks, was just reading through... and I kind of figured that might be reason for Ab... It was fun, lays different than Eb. I have a couple gigs today... but I'll try and make one more video with different approach ??? and actually play... maybe a latin version with time games...
    Reg

  35. #34

    User Info Menu

    Here's a different take of Misty... A med Mambo. I didn't notate anything out... so it's very lose... but that is one of the characteristics of playing in a jazz style... it's usually very live. I only took one chorus soloing... I would obviously get more into the tune if I kept soloing... but backing tracks are not that much fun.
    Again it's very lose... but could be cool version of Tune if notated out, at least the head... Anyway check it out and if anything sound interesting... I'll try and break down what I did.
    Thanks Reg

  36. #35

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jster
    Thanks fep for your time. I really appreciate it.

    1) I thought about the altered scale, but what about the natural 5th? Don't I need it? (Assuming I am playing with a band.)

    2) How can I use DbMM for Db dorian? Don't I need the b7?

    3) More generally, if we take consider the -7 chords, what about all the other modes? There are five other modes of the major scale and of the MM scale that "fit" them, plus modes of HM. How do we decide to reject most of them? What is the algorithm? Of course we want to play what sounds good. But just sticking with the theory,...what is the theory at this precise point?
    Hi Jster,

    Are you still checking in on this thread? Sorry for the late reply, I got distracted on other things.

    1) The altered scale does have a #5 and an b5, but it still works well over a plain dominant chord (or in the case you sited over a dominant 7 b9). Those tones will create tension, but that will make the resolution to the I chord that much prettier. Jazz often has tension and release. The b5 and #5 may not be tones you want to stay on for more than just a moment (or maybe you do). Let your ear decide.

    Why does the altered scale work over an unaltered dominant 7 chord? It works because it has become a part of the standard jazz vocabulary. We are use to hearing it and we like it.

    2) The same goes for the MM scale over the IVm7 chord. And, the blues scale for the same reasons, will work in many places in this tune. It's all part of the already established jazz vocabulary. And again, we are all use to hearing it and we like it.

    Here is a the video I already posted. I'm not an advanced player, but I still think it's good enough to illustrate what we are talking about.These are examples of where the scales I'm playing don't necessarily exactly, theoretically fit the underlying chords.

    2:09 to 2:22 is just bluesy stuff over the whole turnaround section.

    At 2:36 I played Ab melodic minor over the Abm7 the IVm7 chord (I'm playing the tune in Eb)

    At 3:01 I'm playing off the Ab minor blues scale over that same IVm7 chord.

    In either case, when I'm playing, I'm not really thinking of the theory or the scale names. These are just the kind of things I've done before and have become part of my vocabulary.



    I'll try to come back and address your other questions later. Let me know though that you are still checking in.

  37. #36

    User Info Menu

    Thanks fep. I watched your video over and over. Hehe. So I guess I understand everything you said. But I have a couple of questions.

    Questions for fep:

    1) Is the MM over the IVm7 in part acceptable because we are expecting a maj7 chord there anyway?

    2) When you play the bluesy stuff over the turn around are you just sticking with Ab minor blues? (I'm just asking this question for completeness sake. Don't worry, I won't trouble you too much with questions about the blues scale.)

    Questions for everyone.

    3) One thing that I am trying to figure out is what the point of using a scale for one measure or a half a measure is. I can understand using an arpeggio. And I guess I can understand whipping out the HW for some kind of run up or down. But when it comes to just plowing through (Misty isn't the best example), I don't quite get what I am trying to do with the scale. Take the HW that pops in at the end of bar 23 for two beats for the 7b9 chord. What on earth am I trying to for two beats with that scale? When I have four beats for the 7b9 chord at bar 18, I have polished some little lick, but that is of course contrived. So even for four beats, I am not so sure. I will work on it more and maybe I can make the HW sound cool anytime?!?? If I had to play a gig, I would go for arpeggios 100%, but I am trying to make the scales sound as good as possible. Anybody have any thoughts on arps vs. scales on bars like those? It would seem that one would want to lean on the chord tones. So what is the point of the other notes in the HW scale for these couple of bars? And it is kinda weird because it is a symmetric scale and so it seems to sound a bit alien pretty quickly.

    4) I like to play this a lot faster. Autumn leaves on the other hand, I like a lot slower. I listened to the famous vocal versions of that song last year and found them so beautiful. But the way jazzers like Jarrett bounce through it, I am sorry, but it sounds like a bad jazz cliche--assuming you actually like the (original) song--like something you would hear at the mall coming from the organs. At least the head. Ugh. Like so many versions of Wave. Ugh. Everybody seems to do it. Why don't folks pour out their soul for Autumn Leaves? They do it for Misty. But Misty seems to sound fine either way.

    OK, now I have to pour over Reg's stuff.
    Last edited by jster; 04-04-2012 at 05:32 PM.

  38. #37

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jster
    Thanks fep. I watched your video over and over. Hehe. So I guess I understand everything you said. But I have a couple of questions.

    Questions for fep:

    1) Is the MM over the IVm7 in part acceptable because we are expecting a maj7 chord there anyway?
    I tried to explain with a video:


  39. #38

    User Info Menu

    Thanks fep, you are too kind. I watched it several times. I just got up and I will give you some feedback later.

  40. #39

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jster
    Thanks fep, you are too kind. I watched it several times. I just got up and I will give you some feedback later.
    Quote Originally Posted by jster

    2) When you play the bluesy stuff over the turn around are you just sticking with Ab minor blues? (I'm just asking this question for completeness sake. Don't worry, I won't trouble you too much with questions about the blues scale.)

    OK, now I have to pour over Reg's stuff.
    Cool jster, I did another video on your bluesy stuff question.

    And yes, pour over Reg's stuff. I plan on doing that myself. He's a pro, me, I'm thinking I'll always be a student.


  41. #40

    User Info Menu

    This will be my take on Misty (ran out of time). This is what I might do with my wife for a duo gig. The Backing track is almost the same as the one I posted at the start of the Misty thread. It is 4 choruses. The first chorus is me comping for my wife (vocalist), the next two are me trying to improv and some of it is "outside" more than usual for me. The last chorus is my wife & I playing together. I didn't add any additional analysis to what has already been done. From my perspective, this is an easy tune and the previous analyses was well done. Please feel free to comment on this submittal, all comments are very much appreciated and will be reviewed to help me improve my playing.

    Note to fep: This is my first result using Reaper and an M-Audio Ultra USB Interface. I have much to thank you for, I don't believe I could have used this home studio system without the help you gave me. I still have a lot to learn (fx effects are out of my reach for the time being). Thank you again for the excellent and lucid help.
    misty new.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

    wiz
    Last edited by wizard3739; 04-06-2012 at 09:08 PM.

  42. #41

    User Info Menu

    Hey Howie,
    I was watching a Gary Burton class last night and one point among many that he made was the importance of starting a solo with some definitive phrase/idea. That came to mind as I was listening to your Misty. I felt like it meandered a bit too much at the beginning. You played a few notes of the melody. Then there was a long pause. Then you sorta ran down some notes. I would have liked to have heard a bolder beginning. Then when you got going, I felt like you were maybe playing a few too many notes. Also it seemed like you weren't sure how much of the melody you wanted to sketch. Later I liked the mix of some faster runs, some pauses, and some "out" phrases.

  43. #42

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard3739
    This will be my take on Misty (ran out of time). This is what I might do with my wife for a duo gig. The Backing track is almost the same as the one I posted at the start of the Misty thread. It is 4 choruses. The first chorus is me comping for my wife (vocalist), the next two are me trying to improv and some of it is "outside" more than usual for me. The last chorus is my wife & I playing together. I didn't add any additional analysis to what has already been done. From my perspective, this is an easy tune and the previous analyses was well done. Please feel free to comment on this submittal, all comments are very much appreciated and will be reviewed to help me improve my playing.

    Note to fep: This is my first result using Reaper and an M-Audio Ultra USB Interface. I have much to thank you for, I don't believe I could have used this home studio system without the help you gave me. I still have a lot to learn (fx effects are out of my reach for the time being). Thank you again for the excellent and lucid help.
    misty new.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

    wiz
    Right on Howard,

    This is such a treat to listen to.

    Your comping is sounding good on this tune.

    Such a nice guitar solo, you're laid back and it sounds like you have enough ideas to go on forever. Digging your take on the melody in the middle of your solo, and that quote put a smile on my face (it's over the Dbmaj7 to the Dbm7, I can't think of the tune though).

    My one critique would be the last section where you are playing single lines while your wife is singing. I think you should try sticking more to arpeggios and settling on chord tones on your non arpeggio lines. I was hearing some notes that were fighting each other, and I sure want you and your wife to get along.

    Tell your wife I think she sounds great.

    I'm really exited with your recording. Everything is coming through so clearly.

    If I can figure how to do one of those videos that shows my computer screen, I'll put up something on how to add effects. It's really easy to add effects once you've learned how.

    90% of the time I just use EQ, Compression and Reverb.

  44. #43

    User Info Menu

    Thank you Frank, I am usually pretty laid back on Ballads and the quote was from "The Nearness of You". I use that once in a while when it sounds appropriate to my ear. I always have doubts when I try to use single note lines when I play behind Colleen. I will try more arpeggios and fewer notes behind her. BTW, your compliment on her singing made her day today. The home studio is going to be a big improvement for future recording and it is a lot of fun to play with. Thanks again Frank!

    wiz (Howie)

  45. #44

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jster
    Hey Howie,
    I was watching a Gary Burton class last night and one point among many that he made was the importance of starting a solo with some definitive phrase/idea. That came to mind as I was listening to your Misty. I felt like it meandered a bit too much at the beginning. You played a few notes of the melody. Then there was a long pause. Then you sorta ran down some notes. I would have liked to have heard a bolder beginning. Then when you got going, I felt like you were maybe playing a few too many notes. Also it seemed like you weren't sure how much of the melody you wanted to sketch. Later I liked the mix of some faster runs, some pauses, and some "out" phrases.
    Wow! Gary Burton, must have been fun! Thanks very much for your good comments, they are what I need to help me move forward. I always feel like I am playing too many notes on my solos and I am listening/transcribing more Paul Desmond/Jim Hall music to get my ear educated for fewer notes.
    I purposely played less of the melody than I normally would because my wife/vocalist does state the melody very well.Thanks again for your good comments.

    wiz
    Last edited by wizard3739; 04-07-2012 at 02:24 PM.

  46. #45

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard3739
    Wow! Gary Burton, must have been fun!
    He still is! He's on youtube. Hehe. I am going to put up a little thread about it in a bit. It's a two plus hour class.

  47. #46

    User Info Menu

    tone: fat, clear, and sweet with a bit of bite

    comping under vocal: not sure how it could be any better, what's missing? nothing.

    guitar solo: many interesting melodic ideas;

    could have used some double stop, or two notes together things in the solo.

    but that's only cause I like to hear that kind of thing.


    nice stuff!
    Last edited by markf; 04-07-2012 at 03:40 PM.

  48. #47

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    I know it's about over... but I played Misty at gig earlier tonight... Was in Eb, which I think is standard... anyway here's a quick playing analysis in key of thread, Ab. I down loaded Howie's chart and just played through... It's very rough... but maybe I'll try and play through with backing track tomorrow...
    If anyone would like more details of how I pull from Melodic Minor for blue notes... as opposed to harmonic minor and pentatonic blue notes... I'll posts some samples... check video out and ask about anything and I'll break it down... remember it's not a showcase example... just reading through for analysis info...

    Reg
    Hey Reg,

    I have watched this video a bunch of times. I must have watched the first two minutes 30 times. And it is great to watch you think on your feet. And I learned a couple of things. But I have a bunch of questions.

    1) You say the II-V of the bVII implies Lydianb7. I guess the point there is that we don't want to use Mixolydian because we want to keep the C which is the third of the Tonic? Is that right?

    2) In the first 8 bars, there are no fewer than 5 II-V's. I guess four of them are secondary dominants. And that is cool. But I don't know what you are playing over three of them. The main II-V and the one that implies Lydianb7 I get I guess. But what about the other three. Maybe you could just write out bar for bar what you are playing over each chord? That would help me a great deal. I know that you aren't a simplistic chord scale guy, but here you seem to be deriving appropriate modes and I just don't know which ones you decide on except for the very early Lydianb7. Also, you say Mixolydian once or twice, but it is not clear which one you have in mind. A, Bb, B, C, etc?

    3) Same goes for the bridge. Here you seem to maybe tweak the tune. But I really would like to know what you think of the diminished scale in this tune. And how you are handling the one b5 chord in the tune.

    Thanks a bunch.

  49. #48

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by markf
    tone: fat, clear, and sweet with a bit of bite

    comping under vocal: not sure how it could be any better, what's missing? nothing.

    guitar solo: many interesting melodic ideas;

    could have used some double stop, or two notes together things in the solo.

    but that's only cause I like to hear that kind of thing.


    nice stuff!
    Thanks Markf, comping is what I enjoy most and it really helps to have a vocalist in the family. I wish I could have spent more time, maybe a couple more takes on this one. We used "Misty" on our last gig and got very good audience response mostly due to my wifes' vocal talents.

    wiz

  50. #49

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Cool jster, I did another video on your bluesy stuff question.


    Thanks fep. I finally got around to watching this video. I'm sorry it took me so long. What happens is I am trying to keep up with maybe 4 or 5 discussions around here and there is a constant tension between saying something immediately and saying something thought out. I should at least watch the videos immediately because sometimes, as in this case, I could have said something quickly. I actually still had your altered scale video on one of the front burners and I intended to get back to that first.

    As for what you say here, it wasn't what I thought you would say. I wasn't expecting you to give me a collection of notes, especially a collection of 9 notes! Hehe. When you said you were playing bluesy stuff over those four bars, I figured OK, he's playing some pentatonics and he has a one or two blue notes that he uses with them. OK, then I figured since it is 4 busy bars, he probably has to use a couple of different bluesy scales like those. And my question was just going bar to bar which one is he using. But maybe you don't approach it that way?

    Since the dawn of time I have used pentatonic scales over say Am Dm E7 or A7 D7 E7 or "Nobody Knows You When You Are Down And Out" or..you get the idea. And almost since the dawn of time I have been adding various blue notes to these scales making them sound good. In fact, while I rarely float my own boat, I can surely making any of the 12 notes sound good during a progression like these, either as a passing note, or with a little bendaroo, or whatever. But then you see these books that give you "blues scales" and I say to myself, "What the #@*&$ is that? Blues don't have no damn scales unless it is the whole stinking chromatic scale and that might not be enough because sometimes a quarter tone is best if your tubes are so hot the overtones are shaking the roof." But I digress. So anyway, I appreciate your not knowing which stinking notes you are using.

    1) Do you think of blues scales as different from pentatonics plus whatever approach notes, chromatic notes sound good at the moment?

    2) I don't use standard tuning so shapes talk doesn't apply to me. Seems like you just pull your scales from the shapes. Is that right?

    3) Could you easily translate those four bars into pentatonics? I could add the blue notes. Does it make sense to use one pentatonic/blues scale over the first two bars, then shift it by a step for a bar, then back for the final bar? Or maybe just Fmin pentatonic over the whole thing? Don't get me wrong. I could make it sound good. But I never know what people mean when they talk about blues scales on non-blues tunes.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by jster; 04-11-2012 at 07:14 AM.

  51. #50

    User Info Menu

    Would it also be possible to upload the actual BIAB file? I use BIAB and it would be so much easier to download the file and play it through BIAB instead of the mp3.