Giant Steps

**Dirk** · 09-23-2008, 07:42 AM

Discussion and feedback about John Coltrane's Giant Steps lesson:

Giant Steps (John Coltrane) For Guitar - Melody, Solos & Chords

**skei** · 09-23-2008, 02:10 PM

Great stuff, as usual!
And now it's only to dig into it, woodshed a week or two, and hopefully get some order...
I've always loved Coletrane, but he's been too tough for my ability. Now I think I understand what he were doing, a bit of it anyway, so I'll bite the herring and see what happens, great material anyway!

Peace
&
let's scale this mountain, shall we?
Skei (the practicing always one)

**John_Horne** · 01-25-2009, 05:19 PM

Thanks for this lesson. It does a great job of breaking the progression down into small, easily mastered concepts. Of course, putting them all together seamlessly is another story entirely!

**pierre richard** · 01-25-2009, 05:48 PM

not giant steps...small steps...one at a time...there is no hurry...it's not a race...I have all my students work out transcriptions this way..at least two measures at a time at a medium tempo..then the first 4 bars...worked up to speed so you can hear yourself playing at least the first 4...and a smile will cross your face and your mind will say I can do that...

time on the instrument...pierre

**Dirk** · 01-27-2009, 12:08 PM

Hey guys, I just published part 2:

Giant Steps For Guitar: Comping & Chord Melody

Cheers,
Dirk

**nicola** · 01-27-2009, 07:13 PM

Hi
Im looking for a clip by Billy Pezzack playing Giant Steps...Im aware of his Jazz clip on You Tube but someone posted me details about him playing Giant steps...can anyone help?
great site
nicola

Dan · 01-27-2009, 08:06 PM

Hi Dirk... Sorry to not have been more verbal! The first Coltrane send is beyond my grasp (or fingering) at this time.
How everthe latest...which I've just downloaded...appeals greatly, because I'm spending more time focused on comping.
Also...I will relish any more Bossa lessons.
Cheers for the continued fine site. Dan

**Sailor** · 01-27-2009, 10:46 PM

Whats the basic Harm analysis for this??

Sailor

**m78w** · 01-27-2009, 10:56 PM

The easiest way to think of the progression is that it divides the octave into 3 equal parts, major 3rds.

So we start in the key of B and move in major thirds.

Bmaj7 Gmaj7 Ebmaj7

Then just put the V chord in front of each of these

Bmaj7 D7/Gmaj7 Bb7/Ebmaj7/Am7 D7

The second four bars is the same thing starting on G

Gmaj7 Ebmaj7 Bmaj7

Then add the V chords

Gmaj7 Bb7/Ebmaj7 F#7/Bmaj7/Fm7 Bb7

Then it's just a series of 2-5-1's in these keys until the end of the tune.

Starting on the Fm7 Bb7 in the previous bar it moves like so:

Fm7 Bb7/Ebmaj7/

Am7 D7/Gmaj7/

C#m7 F#7/Bmaj7

Fm7 Bb7/Ebmaj7

C#m7 F#7/ then back to the top

hope that helps

MW

**Sailor** · 01-27-2009, 11:11 PM

Great explanation. I don't come across this type of composition typically.

Sailor

**skei** · 01-28-2009, 06:57 AM

Extremely good lesson, but they usually are, in fact, they all are. But it is worth saying (or in this case writing) anyway!
The analysis bit is fine. You know, for us mere mortals the eyes are sometimes 'wide shut', we see but we don't SEE. It takes some training to get this as a second nature, seeing the VI's and iiVI's where they occur.

I have to say he, Coltrane, was a pure genius. Thank bob he was around. Thank not bob it was pre to my being around. But Bob, he doesn't care for this, he lives in a 'Series of dreams', as it were. And thank bob for that...

Peace
&
The Cotrane, gotta take the Coltrane...
Skei (the miracle of being one)

**renema** · 01-29-2009, 03:47 AM

Giant Steps is a tune modulating constantly up a maj 3rd...

First let us create a serie of maj7 chords going up a maj 3rd starting on Bmaj7 (8 bars); we get a (B-Eb-G) Multi Tonic System (MTS)

Bmaj7 | Ebmaj7 | Gmaj7 | Bmaj7 | Ebmaj7 | Gmaj7 | Bmaj7 |Ebmaj7 ||

Now let's add the IIm7-V7 approach chords to create the modulations: (with a V7 chord you can modulate to all keys)

Bmaj7 | Fm7 Bb7 | Ebmaj7 | Am7 D7 |
Gmaj7 | C#m7 F#7 | Bmaj7 | Fm7 Bb7 ||
Ebmaj7 | Am7 D7 | Gmaj7 | C#m7 F#7 |
Bmaj7 | Fm7 Bb7 | Ebmaj7 | C#m7 F#7||

Next, let's create a variaton by changing the second bars of line 1 & 2 ; add the missing MTS member

(The MTS members are like diatonic chords, they can be used freely because the ear remembers them)

Bmaj7 | Gmaj7 Bb7 | Ebmaj7 | Am7 D7 |
Gmaj7 | Ebmaj7 F#7 | Bmaj7 | Fm7 Bb7 ||
Ebmaj7 | Am7 D7 | Gmaj7 | C#m7 F#7 |
Bmaj7 | Fm7 Bb7 | Ebmaj7 | C#m7 F#7||

Finally add a dominant approach to the first bars of line 1 and 2:

Bmaj7 D7 | Gmaj7 Bb7 | Ebmaj7 | Am7 D7 |
Gmaj7 Bb7 | Ebmaj7 F#7 | Bmaj7 | Fm7 Bb7 ||
Ebmaj7 | Am7 D7 | Gmaj7 | C#m7 F#7 |
Bmaj7 | Fm7 Bb7 | Ebmaj7 | C#m7 F#7||

**jazzbender** · 02-01-2009, 09:23 PM

This is an excellent lesson. Part I went over concepts I have already studied, but Part II is something I'm going to add to my daily practice. Your explanations are very clear and the methodical way you advance from double stops to 4 note chords and spread triads is easy to follow. Thank you for the fine presentation.

**merseybeat** · 02-02-2009, 01:47 PM

This is fantastic thanks! PS has anyone heard the Joe Pass version! What planet was he on! Its so unfair! Its above brilliance! Anyone got a tab for this version?

Eddie

CC323 · 02-07-2009, 05:58 PM

Man, great article. This stuff is practically getting into Pat Martino territory with the octave divisons though. Not that that's a bad thing

.

Chris

**m78w** · 02-07-2009, 06:05 PM

Glad you dug it man.

For me, the octave displacement comes from three players, though Pat is in that realm too.

Woody Shaw: Divides the octave into 2 equal parts.

Coltrane: Divides it into 3.

Kurt Rosenwinkel: Divides it into 4.

MW

CC323 · 02-07-2009, 06:11 PM

Oh yeah, I think that musically Pat usually sticks with more conventional composition, but the record he recently did where he took the A minor scale and named it using the alphabet, and some of the patterns within the circle of fifths that he's illustrated more clearly for us mortals, came to my mind when you talked about the Giant Steps progression as an octave division matrix. Also, for some really crazy octave division, check out Harry Partch

. 43 tones is too much for me, that's for sure...

Have a great weekend,

Chris

**prestigeatlanticimpulse** · 03-15-2009, 04:43 PM

Great stuff here...been working through Giant Steps for a few years now and always looking for new ideas...

**oleo20** · 04-11-2009, 09:59 AM

MW what do you mean when you talk of these guys dividing the octave?

do you mean compositionally when they write tunes or is it to do with the way they approach playing over changes?

thanks alot for the great lesson btw

**m78w** · 04-11-2009, 10:14 AM

Ah, I was wondering when someone would ask me about that.

It just means that they are subbing chords by dividing the octave, for example.

using the chromatic scale divides the octave into 12 even sections, the 1/2 step.

Using the whole tone scale divides the octave into 6 even sections, the 1 step.

Using the diminished triad divides the octave into 4 even sections, with the m3rd interval.

Using the augmented triad divides the octave into 3 event sections, with the M3rd interval.

And the tri-tone scale divides the octave in two with the interval of an X4th.

So they're just harmonizing those notes in their solos, for example.

If you have an F7 chord you can divide it into:

2 = F7+B7

3 = F7 + A7 + C#7

4 = F7 + Ab7 + B7 + D7

6 = F7 + G7 + A7 + B7 + C#7 + Eb7

try taking some of those over an F7 vamp and see how easily it creates an inside-outside sound in your lines.

MW

**oleo20** · 04-11-2009, 11:07 AM

oh right thats awesome man!

would I literally just be outlining those subbed changes with arpeggios and chord tones rather than scales?

so when martino is playing his neverending 8th note lines over an F7 he's thinking of playing either B7 over F7 or A7 and C#7 over F7 etc etc

**oleo20** · 04-11-2009, 11:10 AM

ahhh i get it!!!

by playing a B7 arpeggio up to the 9th ie

B D# F# A C#

you are playing the #4 #5 b9 3rd and #5

and also by adding the F natural into the B7 arp (ie maiking it a B7#11 sound) you are playing an F augmented Triad.

Is this correct MW?

**m78w** · 04-12-2009, 12:06 AM

You can use arpeggios, lick, patterns or scales, anything your ear tells you is cool. More modern guys use this a lot, Martino tended to stick pretty close to the changes of the tune, with most of his subs being alterations of the underlying chord or just the tri-tone.

MW

**renema** · 04-12-2009, 02:24 PM

You are right, if you have enough technique to play very fast and clean notes, you can play almost anything, you don't even need to follow the chord changes. Everything goes especially in tunes like Giant Steps where there is no clear tonal center. Listen to Mc Laughlin's "Do You Hear The Voices You Left Behind?".

**heavyblues** · 04-18-2009, 02:45 AM

The article mentions playing 3-6 instead of 3-7(chords)...WHAT THE HECK? I know I only know basic theory, but since when did 6 become the new 7? If somebody can please tell me the idea behind this and when to do it, I would really appreciate since the article doesn't say when it must be used. If you can tell me where I can find this idea in mark levine's 'jazz bible', I would also highly appreciate that too. Thanks for the help!

I haven't tried the 1-3-5, 1-3-5-7, 1-2-3-5 --ascending/descending idea for following the changes, but I am so damn excited because I have a feeling this is really going to work!