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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by 604bourne123
    A thick pick will not bend causing a lack of fingerboard dexterity a thin one makes it much easier.This is for my personal feel.I've seen bass players who use a thick flat pick.
    Play the notes! Don't schmuck through them. Play a thousand notes with a heavy pick, and you will find out how bad you are, especially, tonally. Don't ignore what you are learning. Sorry, but your bend logic is really out there. It makes no logical, physical, pragmatic or practical sense. You can adjust your amp to no end, but you can't change the tinny or just plain bad...

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

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    I've never played jazz before is this where I should be starting.

  4. #103

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    Jazzernot or Jazz or not...

    I'm not at all certain. I've no idea where you are presently. There are many
    important criteria about you, I don't know or can hear. Jazz is an extensive
    understanding of harmony. I would recommend basic Classical guitar technique, by Aaron Shearer. Also, William Leavit, Berkley concept. These
    two notions should set you up quite well. Learn the STANDARD fingerings.
    I've noticed questions of this sort. To play, play in one key and then play per chord. You have to teach the ear and brain. An interesting work, is to take any radio station or song and play at minimal, the changes. DON'T even try to correct, play IN TIME!!!. GO TO THE NEXT TUNE!!! It's the most exquisite way to train the EAR!!! Then, graduate to more advanced forms of music. Do this in jazz, you've many choices. IT'S ALL LISTENING!!!
    ~TR

  5. #104

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    Play what you'd like to learn. Hear the harmony or chords or changes.
    Do it on the dime. Train the ear. A trick, listen to bass. There are only a few chord progressions. Learn them! The curves are very simple. It's pov...
    I can't think of a tune, at the moment, that ain't a standard chord progression. Trust me, there will be a few, that can be explained.
    ~TR

  6. #105

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    For the Dominant7 Chord you can go another direction from the 3rd. Here is the fingering
    -1--4
    --2
    --1--4
    ----3
    --2--4
    --1--4-

  7. #106

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    Great lesson. I liked Mr. Beaumont's Youtube lesson on arpeggios too. It seems like this is a good approach to starting out in jazz.

  8. #107

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    Thanks for that lesson - it really opened up a door real wide! Working with the arpeggio approach helped me to manouver even through some more complex changes - not fast, mind you, but getting a handle on how to play "through" changes.
    Tom

  9. #108
    DIRK- sINCE i AM JUST GETTING INTRO THIS ARPEGGIO THING i NEED A LITTLE CLARIFICATION. If I am playing off a lead sheet I am going to run into a lot of chords other than just the 2 5 1 s. Do I just break down those chords in to arpeggios and play the along with the 2 5 1 chords in order to do single line inprov.

  10. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by richard vandyne
    DIRK- sINCE i AM JUST GETTING INTRO THIS ARPEGGIO THING i NEED A LITTLE CLARIFICATION. If I am playing off a lead sheet I am going to run into a lot of chords other than just the 2 5 1 s. Do I just break down those chords in to arpeggios and play the along with the 2 5 1 chords in order to do single line inprov.
    There are too many approaches to improv to even begin to sell you just one, but for the purposes of studying arpeggios for use in leads, you are correct. If the chart says EbMaj7, C7, Fm7, Bb7, then obviously the the C7 is not a ii,V,I in Eb, but implies V of ii. You can ignore this and just work the ii, V, I , but your phrase would hipper if you used some notes of C7 over that chord. I guess its even helpful if you can do that kind of basic analysis too, where you name the Roman numeral function of the chord in the progression. Its not just separate islands of arpeggios, but one chord leading to another, the function matters.

    Often when a V-alt type chord, like say a G7#5b9, is used in a chart, the altered scale can be used instead of an arpeggio, because every note of the altered scale is in the chord and its extensions(1,b2,#2,3,b5,#5, b7). Just thought it worth mentioning.

    Of course the goal of this arpeggio work is to see the fingerboard "light up" with the notes you need as the chords roll by and you select the notes you want within that framework. Then you can work a bit free-er with the notes because you can select the chord tones from the rest.

  11. #110
    Cubistguitar-Really appreciate your input Thanks. Are you saying that possibly I should be thinking about using scale runs on those chords that are not directly a 2 5 1 chord and then reverting to arps when faced with a 2 5 1 chord. I realize that I need to mix up the patter but just as a generalization I can mix things up this way and still try yo find other ways to make it autically interesting.

  12. #111

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    well, yes you can mix up the use of scale and arpeggios in any instance, but my point was a little different than that exactly

    I guess I think of most chords falling into these camps:
    major, major7, major9, major9#11
    minor, minor7, minor7b5, minor(maj7), min9, min11
    dominant, 7b9, V7alt

    and some often used inversion and substitutes like
    7#11 as a bII7
    maj6 as a I chord or 1st inversion minor7
    min6 as a i chord or 1st inv m7b5

    so my example singled out the V7alt chords
    like G7b5; G7#5; G7#5b9; G7b5#9; G7#5#9;and some other voicings, all great turnaround chords
    well the chord tones are 1,3,b5,#5,b7,b9,#9 for this family of chords
    that is also all of the notes found in the altered scale
    so if you play the notes of the altered scale over one of these chords you have played the full arpeggio for this type chord

    But for the most part you should think of these exercises to be reduction of the possibilities, we are not looking for a great number of notes here, just the chord tones. Arpeggios are just much more specific and to the point than the attendant scales. Even more reduced and to the point would be to just play the guide tones from chord to chord. Basically just identify the 3rd and 7th of each chord and play those notes for the lead. Here is one reason why, Take my example again from the first post, Ebmaj7, C7, Fmin7, Bb7.

    Ebmaj7 --3rd=G and 7th=D
    C7 -- 3rd=E & 7th=Bb
    Fmin7 -- 3rd=Ab & 7th=Eb
    Bb7 -- 3rd= D & 7th=Ab

    now notice how the 3rd of one chord is near the 7th of the next and 7th is near the 3rd of the next
    this is the basis of good voice leading whether you playing lead or chords, just moving the next chord tone without a dramatic leap but a simple step, a third or no movement (like D>E>Eb>D or G>Bb>Ab>Ab)

    So, in brief, the arpeggios are meant to reduce all the clutter of scales, and guide tones can reduce the notes to just 2, all to focus your mind on the most essential tones that identify the changes. Then you can play whatever you actually want to when its your lead break: play scales, arps, guide tones, pentatonics, hexatonics, substitutions, wrong notes, doesn't matter as long as thats the notes you really mean to play. Arps practice is definitely one of the most valuable uses of your time, it strengthens your chord knowledge as well and probably suggests voicings you may not have tried before and gets you playing the correct set of pitches for each chord in your breaks. Just don't over practice making one arp sound so fast and fluid that the next sound is a pause before the next arp, really try to connect these as progressions. In fact only really study arps in progression for the best use of your time. Just write out the changes to a standard or song you want to learn and start practicing those arps in those sequences, that is the real arpeggio workout- changing smoothly like we did in my guide tones example, steps note leaps, sounds very fluid and jazzy.
    Last edited by cubistguitar; 01-03-2013 at 01:58 PM.

  13. #112
    I have , in the past, studied some of the comping of Freed Hauge and he goes into the use of just thirds and sevenths in order to simplify the changes .I did,t spent too much time on his lessons because he didn,t hit on their uses as well as you have just explained them. not too smart of me.. he uses this technique in his comping. I didn,t get the references to arpeggios. Well I need to get to memorizing those arps, Really appreciate your explanations and the time you have spent on this. I know it will help othjers who read this thread

  14. #113

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    I have a little doubt when working with arpeggios.

    The positions and I have memorized but when working them with any harmony of the standard I would link the arpeggios from the next nearest note arpeggio until you locate where the note and take long to think.


    Should think only intervals or notes of the arpeggios?
    How I can pick up speed when you think or how to think and work it?


    I hope you understand my question about, help me Google translator.


    Thank you and Happy New Year


    PS: I have not reviewed all of the post as it is hard work to translate all publications.

  15. #114

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    You are right, thinking about these is not fast, but you have to practice them enough that some reflexive behavior happens, practice the ii-V-Is and the iim7b5-Valt-iminor and get some favorite ways and means thru these progressions, add more progresssions, work each song you learn like this and the arps start becoming like the scales and chords, sorta reflexive, this is what saxophones call chord work, playing each note of each arp until they just go a ripping thru changes.

  16. #115

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    Ok, so I will.
    Slowly but surely.
    Thanks Cubist.