The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    Stringbean, my friend!
    I'm not much more than a newbie myself, but I recognize lots of your issues.
    Until a week ago I had the same feeling, I could get the jazz feeling if I strictly followed the notes in the chromatics lesson, but otherwise no...
    And I felt I just didn't get it.
    But I said to myself; 'Keep at it, don't give up, you'll find the key, sooner or later'.
    And lo and behold, I think I found it a couple of days ago.
    As master Warnock states, it's got much to do with chromatics, and timing, and feel, and lots of other things I still have to learn. But those three issues are extremely important. As somebody said here, as a rocker, you don't have the same thing with chromatic strings. more scales. And the time issue, well, somebody said 'you don't tap on 1 & 3 but on 2 & 4, that's important to get swing. More so than I'd have ever believed until I started listening real carefully to my recordings. It's vital. And the feel. That most illusive ingredient. It combines all your knowledge with a kind of feeling you have to get, or receive, if you're lucky enough to have a live teacher at hand who has it in him or her to let you in. And somebody said one should listen to Paul Desmond. I had done so many times. But there's a big difference between listening and really taking in. So I did do that. And it's amazing.

    Time.
    Chromatics.
    Feel.
    Therein lies the key.

    I spent 8 months learning scales and chords and stuff, but didn't get it, couldn't feel jazz in what I played, no matter how hard I tried, and nobody could tell me how to.

    It all fell into place with 'count 2 & 4'.
    And growing into it, I suppose.
    Afro blue from Coltrane live at half note just now in my ears. That's important. All wake hours, except when the wife says 'no' there's jazz in these ears. Necessary.
    To get the feel.
    Don't forget chromatics and time.

    Peace
    &
    It'll come
    Skei (the just starting to get it after 8 months of hard work one)

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #77

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    I can't seem to find the correct notes to build a G7alt chord, I think of the G7 chord as G,B,D,F,is there another note to this chord, please help

  4. #78

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    Sure, just keep going up the scale.

    G7alt = G B D F Ab Bb C# D#

    A good grip for this as a starter is

    3x3446

    MW

  5. #79
    Stringbean Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by skei
    Stringbean, my friend!

    But I said to myself; 'Keep at it, don't give up, you'll find the key, sooner or later'.
    And lo and behold, I think I found it a couple of days ago.
    As master Warnock states, it's got much to do with chromatics, and timing, and feel,)
    RogerWilco, thanks man. I'm working on it....and I think I'm starting to hear my notes moving from chord to chord, in some sensible fashion.

    I'm holding off on the chromatics for now, as I'm still not hearing these scales properly.

    Cheers!

    PS. Does anyone have a list of minor blues tunes?
    Last edited by Stringbean; 09-01-2008 at 01:49 PM.

  6. #80

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    Mr. PC by Coltrane is one of my favorites.

  7. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMatthewsBand07
    Mr. PC by Coltrane is one of my favorites.
    I couldn't have said it any better myself. The only thing is that whenever I listen to Coltrane I get this feeling, like a turtle checking out a leopard.
    Cannonball Adderley did some great blues tunes too. I'm no expert, but if I'm not completely born under a bad sign this here one, called 'Dis here' sounds like a minor blues to me. It shure sounds bluesy, and it's not without minor chords, I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable players will slap my forehead for suggesting that one.
    But, life is short, and the taxman has long arms, so why not...
    Peace
    &
    Soft horns in the night, preferably combined with a guitar or two...
    Skei (the sitting all day and all night by the computer playing guitar and writing poems one)

  8. #82
    enough to keep the mind occupied for eternity.richard bourne

  9. #83

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    "Interplay"---Bill Evans/Jim Hall
    "Mr PC"
    "Stolen Moments"
    "Blue Trane"
    "Birk's Works"
    etc...

    They're all over the place, though I can't think of anymore.

  10. #84

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    "Summertime" is basically a minor blues. "Song for my Father" is minor blues with a bridge and some twists.

  11. #85

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    Since we know that, probably especially in jazz and other improvisational music, rules are made to be broken in art, the chart could just be renamed "Currently accepted tensions" or "Accepted tensions for the purposes of this arranging course".

  12. #86
    franco/going to listen to mr p. c.

  13. #87

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    Beautiful solo from beginning to end by Coltrane on that one. It's often been overlooked a bit because of Giant Steps/Countdown are on the same album. But I think it is really one of his most perfecty developed and melodic of that period.

  14. #88
    Stringbean Guest
    Still rockin this lesson, good times...

    quick question: Why no subs for the Fm7 in bars 5 and 6?

  15. #89

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    Those chords usually don't get subbed that often, at least in bar 5, bar six can do some funky things like:

    Fm7 Fm7/Eb/Dm7b5 G7alt/Cm7 etc


    MW

  16. #90
    the minor tonality would be lost
    Last edited by 604bourne123; 05-25-2009 at 11:57 PM.

  17. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by franco6719
    "Interplay"---Bill Evans/Jim Hall
    "Mr PC"
    "Stolen Moments"
    "Blue Trane"
    "Birk's Works"
    etc...

    They're all over the place, though I can't think of anymore.
    five spot after dark--benny golson, in Bm

    equinox--john coltrane, in C#m

  18. #92

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    hello to evre body

  19. #93
    Stringbean Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by 604bourne123
    the minor tonality would be lost
    Interesting.
    thanks

  20. #94
    to progress through the 11 scale exercises with the chording and leads is not easy thing to do but you have to /to be any kind guitar player and then to improvise with different chords all in your head at a specific exercise really opens the doors to the tunes of minor blues
    Last edited by 604bourne123; 06-06-2009 at 09:10 PM.

  21. #95

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    five spot after dark--benny golson, in Bm

    equinox--john coltrane, in C#m

    Those sound like good examples in challenging and unusual keys. In jazz, there's a danger of getting habituated to the "horn" keys of most jazz standards and nothing else. It's important to stretch out.

  22. #96

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    hello every one

  23. #97

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    Welcome aboard Elie!

    MW

  24. #98

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    Thank you very much, great thread

  25. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyval
    I've heard Joe Pass say in various places that he doesn't think about the IIm chord in II-V progressions, although he covers the different minor scales in detail in his method books. Is that the type of thinking you are using when playing V altered scales over the IIm7b5?

    For example, for minor blues measures 9-10, over the Dm7b5 G7alt, the G altered (Ab melodic minor) scale is recommended. Analyzing this over the Dm7b5, you get the 11, b5, b13, 13, natural 7, b9 and b3. How is this rationalized, or am I being too rational? It can sound good, but why does this work, especially the Db note.

    For Gm7b5 in measure 4, do you ever recommend using G locrian (Ab major) or G locrian natural 9 (Bb melodic minor) which keeps the A note.

    Or for Dm7b5 in measure 9, do you ever recommend D locrian (Eb major)? Proably wouldn't tend to think D locrian natural 9 (F melodic minor) here since that would give you the non-key E natural note.

    Or do you ever just think Ab major for Gm7b5 C7alt and Eb major for Dm7b5 G7alt and catch the chord tones in the 7 chords if desired?
    These are all good ideas. You can also try harmonic minor-style licks on the altered 7 or and upper structure diminished arpeggio or tritone substition.
    Miles once said to Coltrane "You can't play everything on this tune." Coltrane replied: "Why not?"

  26. #100

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    Franco,
    Very nice quote. And those two (Miles and John) were also so very much opposing poles of sorts. Miles with his often sparse, probing methodology, Trane with the bombastic approach, well there are examples of very sensitive approaches from him too, Naima comes to mind, but more often than not the 'why not' seems like a good key signature for the man. He did it well, but so did Cannonball Adderley.

    Peace
    Skei ( the my guys got into parliament one)