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I always feel kind of mechanical moving from the turnaround to the opening of the A section. I always felt Jimmy Raney is the master of doing that in a really hip way that makes it feel like you're still developing the logic of the line. This is from one of the Jimmy Raney solos in the Aebersold Vol. 20 set that I worked through a few years back. I still enjoy playing this whole blues solo but this little phrase, going from Bar 12 back to the top through Bar 4, has always brought me delight.
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06-15-2023 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Hey Rag... do you hear the chords being spelled... like in the 1st example, F-7b5 going to E7#11 then Bb7 .. Ebma7 etc..
The notation would probable be more standard... like in 1st example... the triplet in 1st bar would have been on beat 2 like the 4th bar... the rest just needs standard jazz subdividing and barring or beaming notation practice...
It still reads fine, I see much worse playing gigs LOL
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I don't know if this counts, but I often quote the opening lick of "Ornithology" on and vary it, move it around as a cell, etc., as
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Originally Posted by ragman1
I’ve seen a swing feel transcribed with a very confusing combination of sixteenth rests and triplet rests and stuff. When usually it’s more easily transcribed simply and played with a time feel that lays back or stretches the first eighth note or whatever.
Software is sometimes a little too smart for its own good.
and for what it’s worth … the program does what it does, but most arrangers spend half their time correcting beam issues and other weird stuff the program does anyway.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Hey Rag... I thought I did..
I looked at your example, and it was already corrected..
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Originally Posted by Reg
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I got a few new subscribers after I posted "A Jerry Garcia inspired Lick" on youtube. So I'm trying to make this a bit more user friendly.
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This is a bit of a cliche Bebop type lick, but it can be embellished or even modernised.
I've played this slow repeatedly. It has a bit of a fret stretch, which suits my style, but it can be played in other positions.
Last edited by GuyBoden; 09-27-2024 at 06:24 AM.
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Here's a couple more. This is the section in Stella that goes
Em7b5 - A7 - Dm7b5 - G7
Cm7b5 - F7(b9) - BbM7 - %
I'm not putting the symbols into the notation because the print interferes with the high notes. They're quick to listen to but long to print out. Also, you can have the original fuzzy ragman audio. You know you love it :-)
Sorry I'm not very good at doing one quick lick at a time but, if you want a recommendation, either of the two BbM7 bars are quite nice.
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Here’s one I stole from a friend’s Arban’s book. He’s a trumpet player and said he can hear Arban’s exercises in Booker Little and Clifford Brown and some of those hard bop trumpeters, so I figured why not.
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Hooray, some action! Nice one, both. I've done a thing too but I didn't want to hog the place.
Anyway, this is to do with the backdoor cadence and is basically about what one plays over it. Maybe most players might think one should outline the substitute chords.
Personally I've never gone that way much. You can outline them, maybe no one will notice, but from my view it can become inaccurate because one hasn't actually modulated into another key.
This is in Bb. It's not just found in Stella but many other tunes besides so the tune doesn't matter much. And as we know, the Cm7-F7 is replaced by Ebm7-Ab7.
The idea is that one can simply play Cm7-F7 over the sub chords and it'll sound fine. But I was asking myself what would happen if one chose to alter the F7 to either F7b9 or F7alt. Would it still work then?
And I'd say the answer is yes.
To demonstrate it here's the same solo played over both sets of chords.
Cm - F7 - BbM7 - %
Ebm - Ab7 - BbM7 - %.
But the solo plays F7 diatonically first, then as 7b9, then altered, so that's three times for each set.
See what you think. Comments welcome.
Last edited by ragman1; 06-19-2023 at 08:10 PM.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Again … I don’t think it particularly matters, just intrigued by the stated reason, I guess.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
If the Ebm7 - Ab7 meant the tune at that point modulated into Db then use the Db maj scale and it'll sound right. My point is that it hasn't gone into Db at all, it's still in Bb. So what is one to do?
Of course, if the soloist is only going to arpeggiate the chords as written then there's no argument. But if he's going to play lines, and it's not in Db, what then?
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Originally Posted by ragman1
For example, an Ab7 with a sharp 11 works really well in that context, so playing something from the Eb melodic minor tonality works better for that change. Even still … something other than straight up and down that scale.
EDIT: When I mentioned a false dichotomy, I was referring to the choice between something just arpeggiating changes, and something being “a line.” Because a line can consist primarily of arpeggiated changes. But maybe a more important false dichotomy is in the idea that the tonality either needs to be straightforwardly Db major or straightforwardly Bb major. To put it in the terms you used, I would agree that it doesn’t modulate. So a Db major scale wouldn’t sound quite right. But, that would mean the chords in question would be iv-bVII7, which aren’t contained inside the Bb major scale. Even though they function in the key of Bb major, doesn’t mean the Bb major scale would work any better than Db.Last edited by pamosmusic; 06-19-2023 at 11:08 PM.
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For what it’s worth, I think this is the value of dissecting licks. Finding melodic ideas that are really strong and can work or be modified to work in a lot of other contexts.
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Heh heh... absolutely. Anybody who's played subway stations is all right with me
(I won't go through your answer point by point because it's right. We don't want 'scales', we want interesting stuff that works. But I still think there has to be some kind of basis to proceed, if that makes sense.
Maybe that's the whole thing with jazz, it has to sound right/good yet not be rigidly 'correct'. I'm sure it's what drives budding improvisers nuts.
You've given the perfect answer. In my estimation at least!)
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Heh heh... absolutely. Anybody who's played subway stations is all right with me
You've given the perfect answer. In my estimation at least!
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Well, I have to say, I wasn’t expecting this.
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Big fan of Stella's rear end
(Second time using Ashampoo to record)
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Originally Posted by ragman1
https://youtube.com/shorts/oxaFivj1FwQ?feature=share
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That Jens knows a lot!
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This just popped out…
whole-tone luck from F7 to Bb:
https://youtube.com/shorts/TGMcjcdxHik?feature=share
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Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
Thanks Rob: My playing needs plenty of luck.
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Haha. Whole-tone LICK!
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