The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Is this/was this a valuable/worthwhile goal for any of you? If so, I wonder how you approached it, what results you achieved, whether it worked out like you had hoped, what worked and what didn't, etc.

    In no particular order, here are some of the standard/established practices out there:

    1. Play Bird heads and bop heads
    2. Listen to the music (of course, but had to list it)
    3. Learn & master jazz language patterns for:
      • II-V-I patterns, major and minor, short and long,
      • Turnarounds,
      • Single chord studies,
      • Write and master your own patterns,
      • Keep adding and mastering new material for your "war chest" over time

    4. Master "exercises" that lay the a foudation for the jazz language patterns (beyond the obvious scales and arpeggios - approach notes, enclosures other chromatic schemes).
    5. Develop the skill to extemporaneously "vary" all the material in #3 and #4, above. In other words - improvise on them
    6. Learn solo etudes on jazz blues, rhythm changes, classic bop tunes
    7. Write and master your own solo etudes on jazz blues, rhythm changes, classic bop tunes
    8. Learn solos from "the masters" (no, not Tiger Woods)
    9. Application - Improvise on jazz blues, rhythm changes, classic bop tunes

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Barry Harris method classes, workbooks from Howard Rees

  4. #3

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    I just copied stuff off records (and listened a lot), I had no structured approach really. Seems to have worked somehow. I even learned tunes and their chord progressions by ear, I didn’t even know there were fakebooks for that stuff back then. Over time I just kept playing and developing what I’d learned, applied to various tunes.

    Should mention I started teaching myself in the early 1980s, so there was no internet, and I didn’t really know of any books. (I had been playing classical guitar and rock guitar for about 10 years by then, so had that foundation).

    Reading your list, I guess as a result of what I was doing I did most of those things, but not in any particularly structured or deliberate way.

    My focus was very much on bebop/hard bop stuff, probably still is!

  5. #4

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    grahambop knows best.

    The answers are in the recordings.

    I'm a hobbyist still working with the great David Baker Bebop books.

    Mainly for references, lines and exercises.


  6. #5

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    haha, well I didn’t know any better at the time! Actually I did get one book, the Joe Pass chord book, simply because I didn’t really know the best way to play jazz chords on the guitar.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuyBoden
    grahambop knows best.

    The answers are in the recordings.

    I'm a hobbyist still working with the great David Baker Bebop books.

    Mainly for references, lines and exercises.

    Yep, what about book 2, which gets into so- called formulae? (Not as scale oriented).

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz
    Barry Harris method classes, workbooks from Howard Rees
    Thanks, and what about the other questions in the OP, if you don’t mind? In other words results wise how has it gone for you? How long did you work with it etc? Can you confidently burn on bebop blues, Oleo, Parker tunes etc?

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
    Thanks, and what about the other questions in the OP, if you don’t mind? In other words results wise how has it gone for you? How long did you work with it etc? Can you confidently burn on bebop blues, Oleo, Parker tunes etc?
    What other people did has no relevance to you. If you want to learn this stuff, you will. At your own pace in your own way.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    What other people did has no relevance to you. If you want to learn this stuff, you will. At your own pace in your own way.
    It's not about me. Just comparing notes, if folks are willing. The examples I listed are common advice "for serious musicians" (as they say) from any number of authors/educators one can name (like the above referenced David Baker). One additional kicker from Barry Greene is to do these things in five positions. So, as David Baker lists one hundred "public domain" II-V-Is, and you committ to learning approx. 20 of them, as a guitarist following Barry Greene's counsel, you really have 100 places to learn them on the guitar - not 20. Lots of work.

    In recent threads Christian referenced spending several years on formulae (and also several years on Barry Harris stuff), and Reg mentioned briefly that he has "a notebook". Some refer to that as the players "personal war chest".

    In any case, all of this adds up to a multi-year committment. I'm interested to hear what some serious/professional jazz guitarists have done to build a robust jazz language. There are several here who have done so, and they are from various backgrounds, both formal and informal. Clearly listing the content of the plan hopefully should make it less painful than quitting one's job and going under The Williamsburg Bridge for three years.

  11. #10

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    I can't talk too much about that but I have got some humble experience.
    At first I was just looking at the chords, one by one and work very vertically without connecting them very well.
    Then I learnt how to play the bass, so step by step I began to connect them.
    I understood that a chord didn't mean anything without a tune and a chord progression.
    I began to apply what I learnt on the bass (I play the saxophone).

    At first on the bass, I played only what it was written, then I added others, sometimes I simplified or I played substitution.

    Be bop is the highest development about tonal jazz.
    Each traditional chord progression has been developed with substitutes and extra chords.
    Be bop blues, Be bop Blues For Alice (Swedish Blues ? Bird Blues ?), Rhythm Changes.

    A lot of I VI II I and their substitution.

    This is a thing I tried on the bass, I hope it helps, but the bass tells a lot of things of what I said.



    There are two chords but I play more.

    It sounds stupid but it helped me.

    Tunes are important but everyone has to see be bop changes like something that can be simplified or complexified, but at the end it's the same.
    How do you call this ? Superstructure?
    In a lonely chord there is an inner progression, it depends of what comes before and after it.
    And in a very complex progression a simple one is hidden.

    I know you're going to say I'm telling craps but it's the way that be bop works.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionelsax
    In a lonely chord there is an inner progression, it depends of what comes before and after it.
    And in a very complex progression a simple one is hidden.
    I like that. Thanks for the post. And man, you sure play a lot of instruments.

    I don't know very much about jazz bass but I experimented with walking bass lines for my own jazz/blues backing tracks. Chromatics and voice led chord connections came up. That's certainly relevant to bebop.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
    Thanks, and what about the other questions in the OP, if you don’t mind? In other words results wise how has it gone for you? How long did you work with it etc? Can you confidently burn on bebop blues, Oleo, Parker tunes etc?
    Well, I've been studying and playing for about sixty years, there really is no end to it. I am no longer much interested in burning, for what that's worth -- my focus is more on harmony, big band rhythm, small group comping. I'll willingly take a solo chorus or two when asked but it's not my main thing. I try to be a supportive player in group situations, which has led to me playing in advanced amateur and semipro bands four or five days a week. Still learning after all these years, most recently working through recordings of Barry's weekly online classes in the eighteen months or so before he passed. All part of the journey. It's a slow course but I'm in no hurry to reach the inevitable destination.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz
    Well, I've been studying and playing for about sixty years, there really is no end to it. I am no longer much interested in burning, for what that's worth -- my focus is more on harmony, big band rhythm, small group comping. I'll willingly take a solo chorus or two when asked but it's not my main thing. I try to be a supportive player in group situations, which has led to me playing in advanced amateur and semipro bands four or five days a week. Still learning after all these years, most recently working through recordings of Barry's weekly online classes in the eighteen months or so before he passed. All part of the journey. It's a slow course but I'm in no hurry to reach the inevitable destination.
    Thanks for your informative post. One curiosity though - what do Barry’s teachings do for you in terms of your current focus/interests? I have not taken the Barry plunge to date.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
    Thanks for your informative post. One curiosity though - what do Barry’s teachings do for you in terms of your current focus/interests? I have not taken the Barry plunge to date.
    Barry was the master of bebop harmony and phrasing. My focus is on his harmonic approach but I have also learned a lot about constructing lines in their rhythmic context. If you are serious about internalizing the bebop language you need to take that plunge.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
    .... One additional kicker from Barry Greene is to do these things in five positions. So, as David Baker lists one hundred "public domain" II-V-Is, and you committ to learning approx. 20 of them, as a guitarist following Barry Greene's counsel, you really have 100 places to learn them on the guitar - not 20. Lots of work.
    ....
    I have adopted this kind of approach, where every single device I want to learn is taken through all 5 positions. I'm not sure I'd recommend it unless you're really serious. I don't need to be that serious, but was too stubborn to realise I'd bitten off way more than I can chew... If I'd limited myself to just a couple of positions, I would have saved many years of frustrating practice that might have gone into learning more tunes, or just getting better at improvising with less positional options.

    Having said that, I only recently have finally come to appreciate the freedom of seeing the entire fingerboard as "one" position, if you know what I mean. But was it worth all the years of repetitive drills? Ask me again in another 5 years!

  17. #16

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    Just speaking for myself, I didn’t find the Barry Harris stuff particularly relevant or appealing until I started transcribing Bird and Bud.

    So at that point I was taking and applying language/licks from bebop heads and solos (ii v I stuff typically) which is a time honoured approach that works.

    Barry can take you beyond playing vocabulary, but I think it was helpful to me to spend some time playing licks.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    I

    Having said that, I only recently have finally come to appreciate the freedom of seeing the entire fingerboard as "one" position, if you know what I mean. But was it worth all the years of repetitive drills? Ask me again in another 5 years!
    Great !
    Positions are just there to teach a kind of fingering but that's all.
    I learnt this when I began to play the bass more seriously !
    I don't play good but I know my fretboard on the guitar.
    Positions have to be forgotten when it's about music.

  19. #18

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    I had already many years of playing other styles before getting into jazz, so language was a much bigger challenge for me than technique for example. By far I found transcribing the best tool, and listening to tons of albums. So many musicians overlook the latter, but you have to carefully listen to thousands, not hundreds of albums, and it will make a difference. I've seen people do one full solo transcription a week for two semesters and turn into great players.

    I think transcribing alone can do the trick, but personally I needed to have the theoretical background as well, to intellectually understand what's going on (what's the thinking behind Bebop playing). I never studied the Barry Harris method, but studied with a bunch of people who I later discovered more or less outlined his method for me.

    So for me it has been, learning from records, some theory, and endless noodling.. I still keep a list of short term goals I work on, say triads of the diminished scale, particular chord progressions, repertoire, etc..
    Last edited by Alter; 04-23-2023 at 11:34 AM.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
    It's not about me. Just comparing notes, if folks are willing.
    Then may I ask why you're asking? Are you writing a book?

  21. #20

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    Actually, I focus mainly on listening to jazz records - but those without a guitar.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Then may I ask why you're asking? Are you writing a book?
    :-)
    And you, for what purpose do you publish your recordings?
    Are you rehearsing material for your first album?

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter
    .... I've seen people do one full solo transcription a week for two semesters and turn into great players.

    ....
    I think many of us have known people like this, but if they're not truly improvising then they're not enjoying themselves!

    Consider the difference between these 2 examples which may illustrate my point:

    laddy gaga one in a hundred - Google Search

    Top 20 Unscripted Robin Williams Moments | Videos on WatchMojo.com

  24. #23

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    I had a list like that. I decided I wanted an immersive education in bebop. I moved to Philly about 20 years ago and at that time the city was steeped in players from that era, who had played with the greats, who were still playing the jams every week sometimes two or three opportunities a week. These were the cats who made a contribution to the history (like Lee Smith, amazing bass player who's Christian McBride's dad) and a welcoming atmosphere.
    At that time, I had never studied bebop from any method or book. That worked out well. Greatest lessons ever were whenever I'd say "I don't know this tune. I'll sit this one out." and the old cats would say "You know it, your ear knows." and I learned how it all goes together.
    I can't tell you how very much I learned by being around players who accepted me. 'can't tell you how much more than book knowledge I learned. What was the primary element I found through that community? Joy. Playing and swinging is pure joy.
    When I left Philly, I came to Boston, to a music school. Man, I learned more from being under the wings of the cats on the bandstand than I ever could have in all the classrooms I spent my time in.

    Just to say learn well, study hard but find players who play. That's where you teach yourself how to become a player.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Then may I ask why you're asking? Are you writing a book?
    Good heavens. Comparing notes - for my own studies.

  26. #25

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    But it's not about you... something funny here. Anyway, your business, not mine.