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What does singing give you when you play a solo in a jazz tune?
There are musicians who do it and there are musicians who don't.
It is also known that it would be difficult for saxophonists or trumpet players to sing while playing.
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04-06-2023 11:23 PM
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I'm only faking it when I try it. I'm not playing what I'm singing but singing what I'm playing.
My buddy can really do it and I don't think it does anything for him as far as helping his lines or rhythms. He's just as good at singing lines as he is playing lines, whether it be guitar, sax, piano, or just voice. (He says sax is his best instrument).
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I'm so not a fan of making vocal noises while playing. My belief is that it corrupts the total product of the performance. Imagine if a singer sang that nonsense into a microphone. Would that be pleasing? Why is it condoned for an instrumentalist to do it? It sounds ridiculous. It's adding an extra voice (meaning instrument) that sounds bad. You want every noise you make in the performance to add to it and be cohesive.
About it helping play the instrument, I also disagree. I want what's in my head to come directly out my instrument. I'm not a singer, I don't need to sing something for it to be realized on my instrument. If I did, it would be much worse.
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Lennie Tristano
singing something before you play is a good way to not noodle.
Most guitarists noodle before they get a 100% fix on what they are trying to play so they never fully commit to the phrase. Biggest problem going. Don’t know if keys have the same issue. Singing is a good tool for that in the shed.
So put down the guitar and sing what you are trying to play a few times. Doesn’t have to be the best singing so long as you can hear it in your head really well.
I think it’s harder to noodle around like that on sax and impossible to do that on trumpet or as a singer.
Singing while playing? Can be a texture. Needs to be good though…. Benson obvious example, but Kurt is an interesting one
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There are a lot of jazz musicians that do or have done that.
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I'm sure it affects the quality of improvisation.
look at 11.11:
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I have a completely different opinion on this. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
When I sing what I play, my music has gained a lot .
I don't have to sing loudly to hurt a musical performance.
There is something else like feeling.Head and instrument are not enough in my opinion.
You can play with feeling and without feeling.Singing certainly helps in achieving the right feeling.
It doesn't have to be singing like G.Benson does.I sing with the instrument so that there are natural phrases and breaths.Last edited by kris; 04-07-2023 at 09:00 AM.
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When I do it, it helps the rhythmic content of my solos. Makes them swing harder, I think. I'm not sure it helps with note choices, but I do think it helps with rhythm.
I have to be pretty relaxed to do it, meaning I have to know the tune and really be able to feel the harmony. If I have to think about the chords, or anything else, it won't work. But, when it does work, I think it really helps.
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+1 Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
I have the same opinion on this.
Even today, riding my bike, I was singing scat improvisations over 'Confirmation'.
I've known this tune for a very long time.I sang how I felt and didn't use any theory.
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The teachers at the music school always told me: 'sing as much as you can'.
And they were right.Choir classes were mandatory.
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This is what I start with every student
Play a note and sing it. Some find it easy, some difficult. If it's easy play two notes then sing them, then 3 etc.
Then I ask them to sing a note and play that note back, then 2 notes etc.
That turns into a big boys game ...
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It's one of the best things you can do imo. It singlehandedly guarantees you brain is in control of making the music, not your wiggling fingers. It almost instantly improves your rhythm and phrasing. It also doesn't have to be loud, or frankly good... It's just about vocalizing what you're hearing in you head. If you struggle to do it, it's likely a sign you need to work on ear training/rhythm.
Here's an example of me doing it, this is very very quiet, late at night. This would not be a distraction playing with a group, and if you're playing solo or just with a bass, just do it quieter.
Also, sax and trumpet are always doing this. Just the very nature of having to blow and breathe is accomplishing much the same thing, not to mention having to listen to intonation etc.
Try it for a month, you'll see the difference.
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Great post!
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Its something I consciously practice every day.
Not something I'd want anyone to hear, at least yet. It's sausage-making.
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I sing when I improvise (I try to keep it under my breath). You can't sing and "think" (about scales, keys, etc) at the same time, so singing connects my fingers to purely musical ideas and forces me to be melodic (and rhythmic). Of course it also equates to playing by ear, which to me is the ultimate ideal.
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Last night I was at a jam and I was lost as to what the key would be since it was someone else's original tune. So I sang and tried to play what I sang, sure it was rudimentary, but I got through it. It's a very useful tool.
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+1 Originally Posted by Rsilver
exactly.
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I think singing helps you play more melodically and musically avoiding just playing licks and finger patterns that you've learned. Great players "tell a story" when they improvise. I like the way George Benson plays and sings, but other players I feel it gets in the way as far as the recording. Keith Jarrett is one of my favorite musicians, but his vocalizing while playing can ruin some of his recordings for me.
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Keith Jarrett - his way of singing has a specific artistic expression. Originally Posted by RobbieAG
Apparently, it helps him in the artistic message, and it does not necessarily help the listener.
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1. It helps in the practice room, which is where it should stay.
2. The human voice has some huge advantages for listener engagement, but instrumental level articulation is not one of them.
3. Even Benson himself stopped, when it was time to really get after it on his guitar.
4. Jarrett moans. That’s not singing. It’s more like some meditative release.
IMO.
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Benson can sing the same lines with or without the guitar. He is singing the actual pitches.
Those that don't sing the actual pitch like Herb Ellis, that's not really singing, more like mumbling, groaning, grunting. It's really distracting, I don't want to hear out of tune mumbling, just play the guitar.
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I agree on the second part, but Benson’s singing can’t go as lighting fast as his playing, no one’s can. Originally Posted by fep
No jazzer can, and no one at The Met can. It’s impossible. The best attempts are merely a directional, legato line. (Kind of like Jarrett or Ellis?)
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Oscar Peterson does it too. You may not call it singing. But he plays fast and "hums something under his breath". Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
What I mean is that the breath gives you fluid control over the phrases.
Is it so hard to understand...?
Last edited by kris; 04-09-2023 at 12:25 AM.
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I know a lot of jazz musicians who do that. Originally Posted by fep
Most of them do it in a very discreet way - 'singing'.
I absolutely don't mind.I wouldn't compare real singing to the singing of an improvisational jazz musician.
That would be absurd.
t's better to ask yourself why these jazz musicians do this?
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