The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    New to the site. Thanks for listening. In the online, minor blues, progression lesson, A G7 alt is used. There’s no explanation about what part of the core is affected. I know it’s usually the five is flattered or sharp but unless exam there is no explanation. In the recording it just sounds like a G B D F chord tones.

    Seems like when G7 alt is written it’s kind of a gray area as far as its exact composition.

    Minor Blues Chord Progressions [11 Variations]

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    It is gray area. The only way to know exactly what extensions are meant from a page is for them to actually state them. Unwritten rules of thumb for alt. chords are more than 1 extension, or to group extensions that sound good together such as #5 #9.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bassfitz
    New to the site. Thanks for listening. In the online, minor blues, progression lesson, A G7 alt is used. There’s no explanation about what part of the core is affected. I know it’s usually the five is flattered or sharp but unless exam there is no explanation. In the recording it just sounds like a G B D F chord tones.

    Seems like when G7 alt is written it’s kind of a gray area as far as its exact composition.

    Minor Blues Chord Progressions [11 Variations]
    Not just the 5th which is sharp or flat, also the 9th. For example, a G7alt could be G7#5b9, G7b5#9, or some other combination. Or it could just be G7b13 or G7#9.

    But normally when only only one note is altered, like G7b9 or G7b5, it's generally written that way. So if you see G7alt it usually means it's more than one. And, unless specified, it's up to the player which version he uses.

    I think on those sound clips the G7 is being played as a G7#5 (aka G7b13) because that's the simplest way to indicate an alteration. It's possible anything more complex would sound too muddy in the examples.

  5. #4

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    (In ex. 6, on the top line, the last two chords are Gm7b5 - C7alt. I'm fairly sure he's playing

    xx5666

    which is then slid straight up to

    xx8999

    That would be Gm7b5 to C7#5b9. Try playing those two chords (very easy) with the recording and you'll see. The C7alt has no root C note in it but it doesn't matter because the bass is providing it.

  6. #5

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    it can be #9 b9 #5 b5 or some of those or all of those, choose what you ears like to ear from what you've played before and what you will like to play after.


  7. #6

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    When I see that, I just make sure I play “altered” tensions, which include b9, #9, b13, #11. As opposed to natural 9 and 13. It’s a “darker” set of tensions.

  8. #7

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    I would probably normally have a G7b9b13 or a G7#9b13 there

    the latter consists of notes from the c minor pentatonic over the G7, so very, well, blues

  9. #8

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    G7alt is G B Db Eb F Ab Bb. That is, it's a G7 with the fifth altered up and down. Also, the 9th altered up and down. That is, both altered fifths and both altered ninths. That gives 7 notes.

    I'll pause a moment for the theorists to choke on my spelling of the chord.

    Are we all ok?

    The guitar has 6 strings, so you can't play all those notes. And, even if you assume the bassist has the G, the other 6 notes aren't easily playable.

    Therefore guitarists have to pick some notes, and the ones I hear most often are F B Eb Bb played xx3446. Also, G B F Bb, played x 10 9 10 11 x.

    I think pianists often do something similar, but I can't swear to that.
    Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 04-03-2023 at 03:32 PM.

  10. #9

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    I also see the altered scale as 1 b9 #9 3 b5 #5 b7, basically you alter the 5 and the 9, meaning you substitute then for the b and # versions.

    When seeing a Galt chord, presumably you want the altered scale over it. However, dominant chords are often changed into whatever the player wants to play at the moment.

  11. #10

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    Typical voiceleading for the turnaround chords would be something like

    4 x 4 5 3 x
    3 x 3 4 4 x

    The penultimate chord is worth consideration as well. This is an Ab7#11, not an altered dominant.

    Tbh altered dominants are a world of possibilities.

    Most people when they see G7alt take it to mean including notes from the altered scale (given by rp and Alter), but the most vanilla and therefore common options for these chords don’t include the b5. in fact these notes are all found in C natural and harmonic minor except the b5.

    G Ab Bb B (Db) Eb F

    which maybe something worth bearing in mind. Simply lowering the C of the C minor pentatonic to B gives a really useful way of playing the G7 alt chord if you don’t want to go too far outside the basic blues framework. Couple this with the fact that the Ab7#11 suits itself well to the C blues scale (because of the Gb) and you have some very natural note choices that bring out the chords and a bit of spice to your blues playing .

    Hopefully it also makes altered harmony seem a little less unfamiliar.

    The b5 is a strong sound though, and once heard can open up doors to the whole tone and diminished scales. Monk and Trane…

    my advice is - get used to hearing the sounds of the altered extensions in isolation.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    G7alt is G B Db Eb F Ab Bb. That is, it's a G7 with the fifth altered up and down. Also, the 9th altered up and down. That is, both altered fifths and both altered ninths. That gives 7 notes.

    I'll pause a moment for the theorists to choke on my spelling of the chord and whether or not I should have included a B or a C. The alt scale has a C rather than a B, but guitarists often use a B and not a C in their chord.
    Eh? The altered scale doesn’t have a C in it? A Cb if you are being a pedantic arse. Don’t know anyone like that around these parts. *whistles nonchalantly*

    (if I was going to go there I would say the altered scale is an enharmonic respelling of the superlocrian, but literally no one cares.)

    OTOH your spelling is what I and probably most people would use, which is to say related to the G7 chord, but I’m not sure if I quite grok the ordering of the notes.

    Tbh the ordering of notes im the altered scale is kind of arbitrary anyway as it doesn’t work the way the other seven note scales do on account of that respelling.

  13. #12

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    Daddy’s guide to basic G altered dominants and what they say about you:

    3 x 3 4 x x shell. Nothing to see here, move along

    3 x 3 4 4 x can’t really be bothered, will this do?

    3 x 3 4 3 4 oh, go write a tocatta grandad

    (3) x 3 4 4 6 basic b*tch

    3 x 3 4 2 what the cool kids are into

    3 x 3 4 5 4 alright Barney

    3 x 3 1 x x alright Kurt we all know you think you’re too cool for thirds

    3 x 3 1 5 x tell you what, I’ll give you 5 while you winch your hand into position

    3 x 3 1 0 0 you are probably from Sao Paolo

    3 x 3 1 2 x play those triad pairs, Berklee boy!

    3 x 3 x x x someone thinks they are terribly zen, don’t they?

    3 x x x x yes pete, roots are big and clever

    x x 5 4 4 6 I too read that chapter of the Levine theory book

    X 2 1 3 x x x oh yes, very clever.

    3 4 3 4 3 3 you enjoy playing the guitar too much

    3 x x 3 0 3 sigh. What is that even for?
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 04-03-2023 at 05:42 AM.

  14. #13

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    There is a book by Barry Galbraith 'Guitar Comping."
    There is an example of guitar comping /A-minor blues /and each chorus is different with lots of substitutes.
    I would highly recommend.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Eh? The altered scale doesn’t have a C in it? A Cb if you are being a pedantic arse. Don’t know anyone like that around these parts. *whistles nonchalantly*

    (if I was going to go there I would say the altered scale is an enharmonic respelling of the superlocrian, but literally no one cares.)

    OTOH your spelling is what I and probably most people would use, which is to say related to the G7 chord, but I’m not sure if I quite grok the ordering of the notes.

    Tbh the ordering of notes im the altered scale is kind of arbitrary anyway as it doesn’t work the way the other seven note scales do on account of that respelling.
    When the anesthesia wore off, I had to edit that post.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    When the anesthesia wore off, I had to edit that post.
    haha. The jazz police have been informed