The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hi there, I was watching a Michael Brecker masterclass and he talks about practicing every single improv idea in all 12 keys but I think he meant in two different ways or maybe I got it wrong, remember English is my second language

    I think he means that for instance if you learn lets say a Coltrane pattern like D F G C, kinad simple minor pentatonic idea that you can practice in all 12 keys by just going up in half steps or following the cycle of fifths by he talks about doing it in whole steps or minor/major thirds... now is when it gets interesting as I think that he used to use (and Coltrane too) some of those ¨exercises ¨ in their solos or I think I hear stuff that sounds similar, anyone here familiar with that?

    Like for example if you are vamping on a Dm7 and you use this D F G C pattern up and down in whole steps, that sounds cool and a bit McCoy/Corea... but you can also move ideas in minor thirds like following the diminished arp, etc...

    Do you guys practice stuff like this? would be great to see some examples of your fav ideas, cheers.

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  3. #2

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    Do you have the link you can post?
    In general, when people like Michael recommend things in all keys, he means be able to play an idea without hesitation with equal ease in any key. Especially when it comes to dominant ideas or sequences, you can't have a basic obstacle like not knowing your intervals and phrases in only "easy" keys keeping you from chromatic harmony.
    The good news is, on guitar, it's not nearly as complicated to transpose from one key to another, as all keys lay on the fingerboard the same way, it's merely a matter of location.
    On the other hand, you need to know the entire fingerboard because depending on the location and string set, the same phrase must be fingered differently.

    So 12 key facility is essential in chromatic harmony, you just need to know the demands of each instrument and practice until no particular key or fingering is easier or harder than any other.

    Or that's the way I'd read his comment.
    Yeah, post the interview if you can. THanks and good luck

  4. #3

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    Recently — no matter if it is practicing the melody of a tune or licks — I always try to start the phrases on each of the six strings with index finger, middle finger, ring finger or pinkie. That way you get a connection between your inner hearing / imagination and your muscle memory. The more I do this the more I get able to play what I am hearing inside. And you find out which fingerings are more comfortable than others.

    A good prerequisite was practicing scales in 12 keys in one position à la Mick Goodrick’s advancing guitarist — middle and ring finger always stay in the same frets and index and pinkie get stretched if necessary. That way I got used to the stretches you will have to make if you practice the way I have described above.

  5. #4

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    I think on the guitar it’s still good advice. Keep that stuff within one area of the neck though.

    For me it ends up finding different fingerings and then applying stuff through tunes. Same sort of thing though.

  6. #5

  7. #6

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    Important, but less so on guitar than horns. You can’t just move shapes around a trumpet.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by vintagelove
    Important, but less so on guitar than horns. You can’t just move shapes around a trumpet.
    But moving shapes around in higher intervals will drastically change the sound because of string length. Therefore I recommend the method I have described above. You will gain technical fluency as well.

  9. #8

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    If you learn 5 ways of doing everything (CAGED), then you can play all 12 keys within a couple of frets.
    5 will get you 12. Not only that, but will enable you to cover the whole neck in any of the 12 keys.
    Yes, it's a lot of work, but less than half the work of acquiring this facility on most other instruments.

  10. #9

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    Brecker was a monster at a very young age. I heard him in the early 70's playing with his brother Randy/trumpet in the Horace Silver Quintet when he was in his early 20's. Reedmen live for scales, chords, inversions and practice them in every key. You play them forward, backward, inside out, twist and shout . . . well, you get the idea. Some of the best, and worst years of my life were playing saxophone and it still gnaws at me every day although I haven't picked up a horn in 40 years. Anything Brecker says IS gospel. And, yes, I have carried this habit over to the guitar playing all scales/chords in all positions on 4 strings. It allows you to wander without fear wherever your musical mind takes you.
    Marinero
    Last edited by Marinero; 10-03-2022 at 02:14 PM. Reason: addition

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    […] playing all chords in all positions on 4 strings. […]
    I do not get exactly what you mean by that.

    EDIT: Does that mean you start the lowest note of an arpeggio inversion on of the strings E-A-D-G and sweep one note per string?

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bop Head
    I do not get exactly what you mean by that.

    EDIT: Does that mean you start the lowest note of an arpeggio inversion on of the strings E-A-D-G and sweep one note per string?
    Hi, B,
    Sorry I wasn't more precise. I begin with Low E/6th string and play scales/chords/triads moving from open E to fretted 12th fret E. Then, A-5th, D-4th, and G-3rd to the 12th fret. I really don't do B(2nd) and high E(1st) since anything more than moving a 5th is too awkward and is really not necessary unless in a very slow tempo. So, let's START WITH MAJOR TRIADS: Open- E/G#(6th string-0-4)B(5th string-2); First position: F(6th string-1st position/A-open 5th and C 3rd Pos Fifth string) but at F#(Second Position F#/A#/C#), you can do (2-6th;1-4-5th) strings then move up the neck to the 12th fret. Work out your patterns and do it in all keys and start dancing up and down the neck. I hope this is clear. After this, do minor/augmented/diminished. Unlike saxophone, guitar is very logical and sequential where you use patterns unlike woodwinds where every scale must be memorized.
    Marinero
    P.S. I did this quickly for you and if something is unclear, I'll respond tomorrow. M

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, B,
    Sorry I wasn't more precise. I begin with Low E/6th string and play scales/chords/triads moving from open E to fretted 12th fret E. Then, A-5th, D-4th, and G-3rd to the 12th fret. I really don't do B(2nd) and high E(1st) since anything more than moving a 5th is too awkward and is really not necessary unless in a very slow tempo. So, let's START WITH MAJOR TRIADS: Open- E/G#(6th string-0-4)B(5th string-2); First position: F(6th string-1st position/A-open 5th and C 3rd Pos Fifth string) but at F#(Second Position F#/A#/C#), you can do (2-6th;1-4-5th) strings then move up the neck to the 12th fret. Work out your patterns and do it in all keys and start dancing up and down the neck. I hope this is clear. After this, do minor/augmented/diminished. Unlike saxophone, guitar is very logical and sequential where you use patterns unlike woodwinds where every scale must be memorized.
    Marinero
    P.S. I did this quickly for you and if something is unclear, I'll respond tomorrow. M
    Now I understand, thanks. I have started to do exercises like this already systematically including the two highest strings. For triads you have three possibilities: (played upwards and counted per string) 2 notes + 1 note, 1 note + 2 notes, 1 note + 1 note + 1 note. There is even a fourth possibility if you play all notes on one string. For four-note chords its 4 notes, 3 notes + 1, 2 notes + 2 notes, 2 notes + 1 note + 1 note, 1 note + 3 notes, 1 note + 2 notes + 1 note. Seems I am on the right track . I also do different permutations of the chord notes and change of direction. And all inversions. But it will take a while until all this is really in the pocket …

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bop Head
    Now I understand, thanks. I have started to do exercises like this already systematically including the two highest strings. For triads you have three possibilities: (played upwards and counted per string) 2 notes + 1 note, 1 note + 2 notes, 1 note + 1 note + 1 note. There is even a fourth possibility if you play all notes on one string. For four-note chords its 4 notes, 3 notes + 1, 2 notes + 2 notes, 2 notes + 1 note + 1 note, 1 note + 3 notes, 1 note + 2 notes + 1 note. Seems I am on the right track . I also do different permutations of the chord notes and change of direction. And all inversions. But it will take a while until all this is really in the pocket …
    Hi, B,
    One last thing: my practice sessions are one hour--25 minutes devoted to technique/35 minutes working on music. I play 2-3 hours daily both CG and EG on alternating days. The technical work does several things: warms the hands before playing pieces preventing injury, strengthening/coordination equality for all fingers, and developing a tonal range on the entire fretboard of the guitar. The last element is one that is sorely lacking for most EG's who, because of amplification controls, have failed to develop the instrument's potential with a palette of colors that can be easily discovered by playing their instrument acoustically. And, this is true for both acoustic and solid body instruments although the solid body guitar must be amplified and played with neutral settings on the amplifier. Good luck in your journey.
    Marinero

  15. #14

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    Yea i was lucky enough to perform with Breckers back in the early 70's . He was not human. he could easily play anything in any key anytime.

    There are a few approaches for transposing, cycling or developing licks.
    So transpositions can keep the relationships between the pitches ... the same or chromatic. Or Diatonic where the organization of the relationships between the pitches changed to work within the key.

    And Diatonic can be any pitch organization... Like diatonic in your example of 4 note pattern D F G C could be
    D F G C
    F G C D
    G C D F
    C D F G

    And you can cycle the note relationships... chromatic using any interval or cycle.
    As in min 3rds
    D F G C
    F Ab Bb Eb
    Ab Cb Db Eb
    B D E A

    Or you can create different musical organizations using combinations... expand the organization.

    D F G C
    D# F# G# C#
    F G C D
    F# G# C# D#
    etc...

    Different tunes or contexts create different options .... by that I mean.... Styles and rhythmic ideas help open the door to application of what you want to do.

    They become like LICKS.... patterns that you can play in any key of style

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, B,
    One last thing: my practice sessions are one hour--25 minutes devoted to technique/35 minutes working on music. I play 2-3 hours daily both CG and EG on alternating days. The technical work does several things: warms the hands before playing pieces preventing injury, strengthening/coordination equality for all fingers, and developing a tonal range on the entire fretboard of the guitar. The last element is one that is sorely lacking for most EG's who, because of amplification controls, have failed to develop the instrument's potential with a palette of colors that can be easily discovered by playing their instrument acoustically. And, this is true for both acoustic and solid body instruments although the solid body guitar must be amplified and played with neutral settings on the amplifier. Good luck in your journey.
    Marinero
    Thanks, M, for your encouragement and valuable hints. (I just saw your reply which I had missed.) Since a few years I practice only acoustically on a dreadnought steel string.

  17. #16

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    Mr Basshead... if you have the standard pentatonics together, two octaves in position starting on each note... you have the patterns and fingerings. You just need to adjust the existing fingering and rhythmic patterns to work with the number of notes.

    I use to just use rhythmic patterns... groups of, 2, 4, 8 etc or 3, 6 etc and play rhythmic patterns with the downbeat of each rhythmic pattern being your target note, melodic line or melodic figure.... lick.

    So if you use the example you posted... D F G C Your just leaving out the "A"... right. It's not that difficult of an adjustment of the existing Pentatonic fingerings... D F G (A) C and picking etc...

    Once you have the fingerings together.... you'll be able to start using the sound just like any arpeggio, scale or lick.

    But if you don't have the technical fingerings together.... you can't really expect to start actually using the note collection..... it's the same old thing, get your technical skills together first.

    If you want I can post something... Although it's always better to just write it out yourself... I'm talking about the fingerings....

  18. #17
    Thanks Reg, amazing contribution here, thats what I was looking for!

    Yeh ive been playing for almost 30 years so I got fingerings pretty fluent with pentatonics, arpeggios, major scales, modes, minor melodic, some triad pairs... so please feel free to share some ideas if you want, cheers.

  19. #18

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    Cool,So take for example.... contigious II- Vs or II Vs that move in some type of pattern....like the bridge of Cherokee
    Right.... / C#-7 F#7 / Bmaj7 /
    ............/ B-7 E7 / Amaj7 / etc...


    So play (shred) pentatonic like licks, like Sonny Stitt ... on top two strings and expand the changes

    I'll notate example or just play it... easier to see LOL.