Triplet Swing Feel

[ragman1]

I'm listening to it. Yes, it's not quite on the beat all the time. I've no answer to it. You wouldn't be the first person to have a problem with strict rhythm. Sorry, I wish I had a solution.

[Basshead]

Thanks for listening ragman

[Gabor]

Thanksmr. beaumont, that app Drumgenius works on desktop? I dont really use smartphones anymore

I normally use Logic loops or some on YT like this one here.

I use Drumgenius on desktop via utilizing BlueStack Android Emulator. It sounds overkill to install an Android Emulator to Windows just because one wants to run an Android App on his PC, but it is not. It is free, originaly its main purpose to allow gamers to play Android games on PC.

Anyway it works fine. Keep in mind, you still have to buy the Drumgenius itself from the Google Play store, a few bucks.

[Basshead]

Just for fun

[mr. beaumont]

Here is my latest album, check track call Lofiblues, this is not jazz, is electronic music but you can tell how Im rushing, thats one thing I think I have improved a lot in the past few months but Im always interested in be more in control of my time feel to be able to have fun playing funky lines and stuff.

I don't Spotify anymore, so I couldn't get to that particular track, but you sounded ok on some of the lo-fi hip hop stuff I heard. I'd really need to hear you play some jazz to make a real assessment of your swing feel.

[John A.]

This is good info, but I would go further than this. Don't try to make any inequality. It will happen naturally. It's certainly not a technical thing because you will straighten out at high tempos anyway which is how it should be. Whenever I tell students who have a bit of a corny swing feel to stop trying to swing, they always swing more. They often don't believe me until I play them a recording because to them it feels straight.

You have to trust it, if you are feeling it.

It's true the the nature of the 8th notes vary from player to player - Wynton Kelly, for example, had quite a pronounced inequality and swung like crazy. If you slow down Bird he does actually have quite a pronounced inequality even on fast numbers.

However, I can't think of a modern jazz guitarist who had as pronounced an inequality as Wynton. My theory is that the mechanics of the guitar actually makes it very hard. Some players are very straight and even - Pat Martino is a great example. Jimmy Raney actually argued that bop should be pretty much straight and the swing comes from the upbeat accents and irregular phrasing IIRC which seems to clash with the way I hear Bird, but I love Raney's playing so clearly it works.

The trend in general has been towards a more even, late 8th note feel generally in the past few decades. This works for very well for guitar, if you can find the pocket.

The best advice I had comes from Hal Galper - don't try to swing, instead play even. If you are feeling it, it will come out, but you can't force or fake it. The feeling is in the upbeats (well it's in the downbeats too, its more that for many the upbeats tend to be the things to work on.)

Another thing to keep in mind is that ultimately this is ensemble music. "Swing" emerges from each player feeling 8ths slightly differently and pushing at the tempo slightly differently. A person can play completely even, un-syncopated 1/8's (at at high tempos that's what most do) and it will sound like swing because of the way it fits in with the rest of the groove. You can't learn this stuff entirely in isolation from other players or with mechanized rhythm sections. If live jam partners aren't an option, it's good to blend playing with recordings of real jazz and/or live-musician backing tracks (e.g., Aebersold) with your robot practice.

[wzpgsr]

Play along with recordings of the masters.

[Christian Miller]

Another thing to keep in mind is that ultimately this is ensemble music. "Swing" emerges from each player feeling 8ths slightly differently and pushing at the tempo slightly differently. A person can play completely even, un-syncopated 1/8's (at at high tempos that's what most do) and it will sound like swing because of the way it fits in with the rest of the groove. You can't learn this stuff entirely in isolation from other players or with mechanized rhythm sections. If live jam partners aren't an option, it's good to blend playing with recordings of real jazz and/or live-musician backing tracks (e.g., Aebersold) with your robot practice.

Playing with records is a time honoured way to do it.

Also sing with records - as I’ve already said a few times - because the guitar can be a bit of a distraction from the music at first. Once you get the music in your ears and body you can get it down on the guitar much better because you’ll know that much better what you want to hear coming out.

[mr. beaumont]

Playing with records is a time honoured way to do it.

Also sing with records - as I’ve already said a few times - because the guitar can be a bit of a distraction from the music at first. Once you get the music in your ears and body you can get it down on the guitar much better because you’ll know that much better what you want to hear coming out.

Yes! Even if your singing sucks...pitch is honestly less important than rhythm when it comes to this.

If you can sing it and hear it in your head, it can make it's way to your fingers.

[kris]

You can't learn to swing - you have to be born with it.

[Basshead]

Thanks Kris, thats what I wanted to hear right now, perfect confirmation bias so Ima quit trying to swing and become a swinger... lets see if I get more busy that way LOL

Now that you guys mentioned singing... total game changer for me, actually for players like me coming from rock, blues and in my case some classical and flamenco background, we use Jazz as a way to practice what we never practiced before, mainly ear training and time feel...which should not be the way but Im a miserable ignorant from the north of Spain and I started playing in the mid 90s reading books all day, it was ok cause I used to be an amazing reader, my dad is a musician so I had no choice but I never ever focus on singing, transcribing, ear training in general and the whole time/swing feel, groove, pocket thing till I started researching stuff about how to learn Jazz in a proper kinda old school way and then voila, I dont care I cant play straight ahead never ever in my life but Ima keep using all the Jazz oriented ways of practice and tunes like all the things you are, blue bossa, oleo, all of me, corcovado, etc... as sort of templates to expand my chord and chord tones vocabulary for ever, hope this make sense and you guys know what I mean, again, it should be like this but for whatever reason study Jazz forces to focus on some musicianship skills that in other genres might be overlooked...even classical! but everything depends on your teachers and you research tho, much more good info there days than in 95... well thats actually not 100% true cause I remember the first guitar player mag I got had a Jim Hall interview and talked about transcribing piano and horn players...I was like...nah forget it, Ima try to learn some ACDC riffs

I remember my dad got a Jazz CD colletion and I was like... who are this weird people? Charlie Parker, Herbie... Keith Jarret... sounds weird and there no guitar here... now I listen to Keith or Parker more than to any other guitar player... yes Im getting old and miserable LOL

I still love ACDC tho, thanks John A for mention Aebersold backing tracks, I just downloaded a free package from his site and they do feel great, same thing about drumgenius, just downloaded a couple of their loops and they do groove like crazy, I got some nice ones in Logic Pro too so Ima stick with what I got loop wise and focus on playing along with live recordings with great drummers to balance a bit and metronome wise Ima stick with just ANDS for a while as seems the hardest for me... so time to feel the ands like Barry.

[Vladan]

... listen to the first phrase of this head ... now be honest - did you feel that first note on the beat or the upbeat? I don’t know about you but can’t help feeling it on the beat sometimes even though I know it’s wrong. You get to the ensemble hits and you reconfigure in your head and realise you’ve put 1 in the wrong place. The phrase actually starts on the 3 and It’s kind of like an audible illusion...

As much as I can hear, upbeat Vs downbeat is different issue from 1 Vs 3. There is a clear lead in note on upbeat. I can hear it as down beat only if I try really hard. At the same time, I naturally place it at "and of 4" instead of correct "end of 3", but I compensate along the way, as needed. Only If I count at half tempo, as if 1/8 were 1/16, I can turn that lead in note into "e of 1" (as in 1-e-and-ah). Only in that case "hit" does not fall on downbeat.