JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 80) - Monk's Dream

[ragman1]

Next one from Triple_Jazz.

[ragman1]

Talking about Triple_Jazz, I do hope he's okay. It's been about 2 weeks or so since he posted and he was complaining of a respiratory infection. That could be anything from something mild to Covid.

So get better soon if you're not well, Triple.



On the other hand, if you're sitting around on the porch thinking there's more to life than strumming the guitar, absolutely right!

[John A.]

Here we go. I haven’t done one with my phone in a while because I found videos pretty frustrating on the Android phone I had, but I just switched to the cult of Steve, and it does seem to be better for videos. Anyway, on to my usual pale caricature of Monkisms, and to checking out you guys.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I just looked at several scores for this, and they're all different. I listened to a few of Monk's recordings and they're all different too. Even the dreaded triplets are different in different transcriptions. Here they are in JazzFake and a random online transcription:



So I threw in some of everything and tried to think like Monk. On first listen, it sounds to me like an early recording by the mythical child of Geri Allen and Frank Zappa But it is what it is - so it's all hanging out there, and I offer no apologies.

[wzpgsr]

I just looked at several scores for this, and they're all different. I listened to a few of Monk's recordings and they're all different too. Even the dreaded triplets are different in different transcriptions. Here they are in JazzFake and a random online transcription:



So I threw in some of everything and tried to think like Monk. On first listen, it sounds to me like an early recording by the mythical child of Geri Allen and Frank Zappa But it is what it is - so it's all hanging out there, and I offer no apologies.

I have been looping and slow-downing the head of this tune from the version on the album Monk’s Dream. The chart I’m using has a descending burst of sixteenth notes for that little bit, but on this particular recording the first note is a bit longer. Any and all reasonable facsimiles will be approved!

Its also interesting to note just how much information is lost when referencing someone else’s transcription. There are ghost or suggestion notes that appear in the transcription to be full-fledged notes, but when you listen to Monk you get an entirely different picture. This is obviously obvious stuff, but good to revisit once in a while: transcription and playing with the recordings is probably the best method for learning this music.

[John A.]

Monk is a heavily oral tradition. From what I’ve read, he didn’t give his band charts, and could be cryptic. So there aren’t really definitive versions of his tunes, though he was more consistent with some than others. So you kind of have to just cobble together your own interpretations.

[ragman1]

I've never liked posting YouTubes instead of working on the music but this one bears a mention. You should listen to it to the end to get the full benefit. It's also a bit of a masterclass in playing off the melody.

[wzpgsr]

No idea what I am doing here except going for broke. I think John A. said it a several months ago: sometimes you just got to let 'er rip. Will try to post next week after spending more time with it. A before and after.

[wzpgsr]

wpgsr,
You combine well musically.
Nice sound.
what guitar do you play?

Thanks, Kris. I hope to improve upon this in a few days. I love listening to Monk's music, and understand it somewhat while listening, but I never feel quite certain how to approach improvising over his changes,.

This guitar was a custom build by a luthier friend of mine—the body and neck were all made by hand in his shop, and I got to spec out just about every little detail. It has a chambered mahogany jazzmaster-style body with maple cap, a 24.75" scale Strat-style mahogany neck, Tele-style hardware, and Ronin Foilbucker pickups. The guitar originally had a Vintage Vibe CC-Rider neck pickup and a similarly-styled humbucker sized P-90in the bridge—these pickups sounded good, but made for a lopsided-looking guitar. These Foilbuckers look much nicer for this style of guitar and sound great, too.

[grahambop]

Thanks, Kris. I hope to improve upon this in a few days. I love listening to Monk's music, and understand it somewhat while listening, but I never feel quite certain how to approach improvising over his changes.

That’s a good question. I think Monk used to use the melody quite a lot in his solos (certainly on his solo piano stuff), this is also something Peter Bernstein mentions.

Also it’s worth listening to what Charlie Rouse plays on sax, he was Monk’s favoured sax player so presumably his approach had Monk’s approval. To me he does seem to ‘play the changes’ in a more linear way than Monk does.

[grahambop]

I think this is the Peter Bernstein clip I was thinking of:

[wzpgsr]

Just don't criticize professional musicians because you are embarrassing yourself.
This is my friendly advice.

I don’t think calling the sound of a solo “angular” is in any way a criticism—it’s a great English word to describe Monk’s sound—maybe something was lost in translation here. I think the prevalence of dominant b5 chords invites sounds based on whole tone scales, which, does to my ear sound “angular.” Same with the prevalence of heavy syncopation and Monk’s huge plunking interval leaps and chord stabs. It’s kind of hard to play Monk and not emulate some of these characteristics—I think this is what rags was saying about Bernstein’s solo.

I don’t think you’d get angry if someone described a line with lots of “stepwise” movement as “linear”? It is not easy to describe aural characteristics with the written word.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Much ado about nothing, in my opinion. Some like Picasso, some like Da Vinci, and some like both. There’s room for all.

[Christian Miller]

Pete goes clang and plunk and I like it

Jazz guitar can be so pretty pretty so much of the time. I like a bit of grit and ugly beauty.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Full agreement ... but what does this have to do with a jazz guitar where there are thousands of guitarists ...?

You raised the issue, Kris -

"...but I found his soloing a bit angular for me"...
I was terribly upset with this opinion.

I just responded to it.

[grahambop]

angular guitar?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

....'angular'- is some mysterious term. Can this word be freely interpreted?

How about “characterized by many sudden changes in direction”, “distinguished by sharply demarcated sections”, or “lacking smooth transitions from part to part”?

But it was ragman’s post containing that phrase that prompted your red faced emoticon - ask him what he meant.

[grahambop]

The post was addressed to Graham, no one else, and merely stated a personal preference on my part. As far as I know, it did not cause him to run into the street screaming and set fire to himself.

it didn’t upset me, honestly...

[grahambop]

That's the second picture you've posted... you're getting a taste for graphics. This could be the start of a new career :-)

Oh I just like amusing pictures, that’s all! Not the first time I’ve posted silly stuff.

[grahambop]

In spite of everything, I would choose more understandable words.
Then there will be no confusion and I will not use the translator.
I'm going on vacation with a dictionary.
I hope I do not play a bit angular.

I do not think you are katowy kris!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Suddenly samba!



After listening to this a few times, it may be the best (or worst) of Monk, Larry Carlton, and Frank Zappa. But it was truly spontaneous!

[wzpgsr]

Rambling thoughts to accompany another take I recorded tonight (no head this time):

I watched that Peter Bernstein video grahambop posted and tried to dig into the melody a bit the past couple of days, doing things like slowly building lines using only the notes from each phrase, that sort of thing. It's easier at slower more deliberate practice tempos, but I think a few bits of that approach made it into this take.

Bernstein also talked a bit about listening to what Monk is actually playing. We all know chord charts are just guides, really, but I think that's even more true with Monk. He might just be playing two notes of what the chart calls Bb7b5, which has a lot of implications that I am not sure are always reflected in the melody. The chart I am referencing for example says Bm11 / Bb7 on that bit leading into the turnaround. The standard crap I might play over that just doesn't sound right at all. But if I just focus on the melody, I can make it sound like something a little bit better.

Anyways, here it is. I'd like to post another tomorrow night just to gauge my progress.

[ragman1]

I don't think this is an easy tune at all, it's deceptive. What you said about your usual approaches feeling not quite right is very true. It was just the same for me, that's exactly what happened. In fact, I more or less gave up and just got through it best I could in the end.

There's a Monk version-Take 8 somewhere so maybe thy had to struggle with it a bit too.

[ragman1]

Right, it's Wednesday and this is IT! I must do Other Things now but you don't need to know that. Enjoy.

[wzpgsr]

It got different over the course of three nights, but not sure it got any better - thanks for bearing with me on my little journey of trying to be more conscious of the melody while soloing. Comments / criticisms welcome—can you hear the melody?