The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hello.

    I am still concentrating on Jazz Blues. Often, I might see for example an F13 in a given bar. I am thinking that playing the 13 as part of my improvisation would be a wise approach, all things being equal. The same would be true if there is an F9, it might be wise to add the ninth to my lines, unless I am shooting for trying to get a little dissonance.

    I say this because if in measures 9 and 10, I go from Gmin7 to C7b9, then on the C7b9, I am thinking that is like the V7 in a iim7 - V7 - IMaj7. That is, as the Gmin7 goes to the C7b9 and then to the F7, I am treating it like the 2-5-1.

    Any thoughts on this?

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  3. #2
    Extensions are normally optional so don't need to be in the chord, or played when improvising even if they are in the chord. The 13 is merely a note in the scale so you will likely be playing it at some point. Playing around with the 13 sound is good to do if you are trying to emphasize it. Same goes for all extensions. You can approach bars 9, 10, 11 as a II V I as long as you don't play the major seventh on chord I. It is usually a dominant chord which has a minor 7th.

  4. #3

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    You don't need to follow chord charts blindly. In a live playing situation, those accompanying you are likely to do their own substitutions, so it really doesn't matter if you play a 13th when the chart suggests a 13th.

    Concentrate on what sounds good; learn to hear in real time what the rest of the band is doing so you can play something appropriate.

    As for your question about the G7b9, the short answer is "yes" and the longer answer is that you could experiment with using D-7b5 instead of plain D-7 to G7b9. Ab is a common tone in both chords: it is the b5 in the D-7b5 and its the b9 in the G7b9.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Saumarez
    Extensions are normally optional so don't need to be in the chord, or played when improvising even if they are in the chord. The 13 is merely a note in the scale so you will likely be playing it at some point. Playing around with the 13 sound is good to do if you are trying to emphasize it. Same goes for all extensions. You can approach bars 9, 10, 11 as a II V I as long as you don't play the major seventh on chord I. It is usually a dominant chord which has a minor 7th.
    Great points. I have seen and heard songs that illustrate what you said. I guess it just depends on whether or not someone wants the chord to be 13th or a 9th, because that is the sound they are after.

    I started this thread because some really nice lines that I heard seem to target the same extensions in the chord. I seem to like this sound. I will have to keep on listening...!

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by starjasmine
    You don't need to follow chord charts blindly. In a live playing situation, those accompanying you are likely to do their own substitutions, so it really doesn't matter if you play a 13th when the chart suggests a 13th.

    Concentrate on what sounds good; learn to hear in real time what the rest of the band is doing so you can play something appropriate.

    As for your question about the G7b9, the short answer is "yes" and the longer answer is that you could experiment with using D-7b5 instead of plain D-7 to G7b9. Ab is a common tone in both chords: it is the b5 in the D-7b5 and its the b9 in the G7b9.
    Good stuff! Thanks.

  7. #6

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    The extensions are often nice in jazzing up a bluez. However, just anything won't always work. Use your ear. Tips to help hear it out are view the extensions you choose as chord melody. If it sounds melodic in a chordal way, it has to be good. Joe takes his time and demonstrates simple to advanced in this video.


  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan
    Hello.

    I am still concentrating on Jazz Blues. Often, I might see for example an F13 in a given bar. I am thinking that playing the 13 as part of my improvisation would be a wise approach, all things being equal. The same would be true if there is an F9, it might be wise to add the ninth to my lines, unless I am shooting for trying to get a little dissonance.

    I say this because if in measures 9 and 10, I go from Gmin7 to C7b9, then on the C7b9, I am thinking that is like the V7 in a iim7 - V7 - IMaj7. That is, as the Gmin7 goes to the C7b9 and then to the F7, I am treating it like the 2-5-1.

    Any thoughts on this?
    With an improvised solo against an improvised accompaniment, there’s a LOT of fudge factor that is allowed. However, if you are composing and/or arranging, then you have to be aware of the intervals that you are creating.

    For example, on Autumn Leaves, the first whole note of the melody is a minor third (an “Eb” of a Cmi7 chord…or a “C” of and Ami7 chord). If the accompaniment is a C minor 9 chord, the 9th (D) forms a -9 interval with the melody note (Eb). You wouldn’t think that a -3 could create a clash on a minor chord, but it can. The better solution in this case is to change the chord underneath to get rid of the “D”.

    All that to say that “overthinking” has its place, but so does just throwing caution to the wind and going for it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #8

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    Hey AlsoRan... there is much more that single momentary harmonic organization and use of extensions.

    Part of becoming a better jazz player, hell just a better musician in general, is learning how to musically organize your use of extensions. The old days of embellishment approach of improv or anything goes if it sounds good have been gone for decades. Part of the Vanilla result etc...

    Jsaras brought up great point about Autumn leaves... but that is more about voicings, which when you get better at live performance or playing in general, your aware of the ...how, why, where and when notes function or musically work in live context. Typically live casual performance have standard "Head Arrangements"... or what and where you can play etc...

    The whole concept of extensions is really dated. I mean.... I could get into modern Harmonic Rhythm concepts... but that involves knowing what to use... the Harmonic Rhythm is the Where etc...

    Changes are generally used casually because... as jazz players we need to know what possible extensions are implied and why. And what the choices used imply... This allows playing the same tune(s) differently, or having the options to do so when performing and have Musical organization.

  10. #9

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    To me it depends on the situation. If you're backing a singer alone, then some extensions are probably called for. If comping for soloists, two or three note vanilla chords may be more appropriate, to avoid clashes with whatever the soloist might play. And all the continuum in between, depending on what is going on and how well you know the other band members. The less I know of the others, the fewer notes I play, in general, much of the time. I don't think one size fits all.

  11. #10

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    The blues progression is so simple and so ingrained, you can basically take it anywhere and long as you touch base in key places.

  12. #11

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    There are so many possibilities that it takes great skill and patience to avoid clashing. For example, starjasmine’s Dmin7b5 to G7b9 is one way to do it, eg under a solo line that hits the Ab twice - once over a chord like CDF and then over something like BDF or even BDbEb (assuming it’s headed toward resolution in a root chord form in C). But you could also use a descending line that goes through Bb & Ab to turn the first chord into an augmented Dmin7#5 before the same G7b9. And there are multiple equally cool alternatives. Unless you know or can hear where the soloist is going, extensions are best minimized in comping.

    Even tempo matters. Accidentals like a 9th against a flat 9th can be fine if at least one of them is a momentary passing note. But sustained together, they’d almost always sound off.

    I got my degree in extensions for the blues from Wes, with a minor in comping for them from Tommy Flanagan. They wrote the book on it starting at 1:34 in D Natural Blues.


  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    I got my degree in extensions for the blues from Wes, with a minor in comping for them from Tommy Flanagan. They wrote the book on it starting at 1:34 in D Natural Blues.
    Possibly my favorite jazz guitar solo.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    Possibly my favorite jazz guitar solo.
    ...and mine! This was the album that started it all for me. I got it when I was 13 and spent much of my practice time through high school learning as much of it note for note as I could play & understand at the time. And as I got better over the years, I had to go back and relearn it closer to the way it was actually played.

    The album art also made me want a 175 more than I'd ever wanted anything. Fortunately, my local music dealer had taken an interest in my playing and young career - I was already gigging with friends (drums, bass, tenor, and piano) for the kids' parties and "cotillions" in Atlantic City boardwalk hotels - my family had been in AC since the 1920s, so I had a few open doors. Al found me a repossessed 175DN within a year and I was on the way, thanks to The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery.

  15. #14

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    So at this point, I will just keep things simple, without going crazy on extensions and experiment with that sound, although I still like to put in little chord lines when I can, which normally require some sort of extensions.

    Yes, I will keep is simple and then later, try recording myself with extensions on the backing progression. I do notice little clashes here and there when I play my lines. It is a skill that I need to woodshed on.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan
    Hello.

    I am still concentrating on Jazz Blues. Often, I might see for example an F13 in a given bar. I am thinking that playing the 13 as part of my improvisation would be a wise approach, all things being equal. The same would be true if there is an F9, it might be wise to add the ninth to my lines, unless I am shooting for trying to get a little dissonance.

    I say this because if in measures 9 and 10, I go from Gmin7 to C7b9, then on the C7b9, I am thinking that is like the V7 in a iim7 - V7 - IMaj7. That is, as the Gmin7 goes to the C7b9 and then to the F7, I am treating it like the 2-5-1.

    Any thoughts on this?
    I think you're on the right track. If the chord is F13, you can play any note from that chord and, if you make a nice melodic line, any other note as well. But, while you're learning it, you try the chord tones first.

    A simple version of a blues will have an F7. But, you can replace it with F9 or F13 and it is very likely to sound good.

    What does that mean?

    F7 is F A C Eb.

    To make an F9 you add a G.

    To make an F13 you add a D (pianists might also add a Bb).

    It's very important to play this stuff with a backing track so you can get these sounds in your ears.

    As you progress, you will find lots of other things you can do. You brought one up. The C7b9. That's a good sound to learn really well. After that, try the #9. Later, try the b5 and #5. See which ones sound good to you against the backing track.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    F7 is F A C Eb. To make an F9 you add a G. To make an F13 you add a D (pianists might also add a Bb).
    The key to sophisticated expression of these chords when supporting a soloist is to use only as many notes as you need to add the flavor you want, often with an inversion to fatten it up. So, for example, the combination of Eb, A, and D is a 13th in F that’s neither note heavy nor far outside in its sound. The F, C and G just clutter the chord.

    The 7b-3-6 triad is a great chord for blues comping in the tonic and it’s easy fingering in any key. Get the subdominant 9th feel with an easy drop of a half step from the 7b and 3 and a full step from the 6, which gives you 3-7-9. Then move that triad up 2 frets for the same 9th triad in the dominant. So for a 1-4-5 blues in F as chosen for your example, the tonic (F) triad is Eb A D. The subdominant (Bb) triad is D Ab C, and the dominant (C) triad is E Bb D. You can augment the D to the #9 or drop it to a flat 9 for a different feel.

    You can use any pair from any triad above to change the feel, for example adding a third note to give you a major 7 (E A D in F), a minor 13 (Eb Ab D) etc. Try it, AlsoRan - you’ll like it!

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I think you're on the right track. If the chord is F13, you can play any note from that chord and, if you make a nice melodic line, any other note as well. But, while you're learning it, you try the chord tones first.

    A simple version of a blues will have an F7. But, you can replace it with F9 or F13 and it is very likely to sound good.

    What does that mean?

    F7 is F A C Eb.

    To make an F9 you add a G.

    To make an F13 you add a D (pianists might also add a Bb).

    It's very important to play this stuff with a backing track so you can get these sounds in your ears.

    As you progress, you will find lots of other things you can do. You brought one up. The C7b9. That's a good sound to learn really well. After that, try the #9. Later, try the b5 and #5. See which ones sound good to you against the backing track.
    You just reminded me of the technique that I use for my lines (sometimes). Richie Zellon had an exercise in his course where as you said, you play the chord tones. In his case, he wanted you to create an almost skeletal line, wherein you hit the chord tones, especially where the line changes direction and on the appropriate beat. Once you have that, then you can fill the rest of the line's notes.

    It worked pretty well for me and I am pulling this out again.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    The key to sophisticated expression of these chords when supporting a soloist is to use only as many notes as you need to add the flavor you want, often with an inversion to fatten it up. So, for example, the combination of Eb, A, and D is a 13th in F that’s neither note heavy nor far outside in its sound. The F, C and G just clutter the chord.

    The 7b-3-6 triad is a great chord for blues comping in the tonic and it’s easy fingering in any key. Get the subdominant 9th feel with an easy drop of a half step from the 7b and 3 and a full step from the 6, which gives you 3-7-9. Then move that triad up 2 frets for the same 9th triad in the dominant. So for a 1-4-5 blues in F as chosen for your example, the tonic (F) triad is Eb A D. The subdominant (Bb) triad is D Ab C, and the dominant (C) triad is E Bb D. You can augment the D to the #9 or drop it to a flat 9 for a different feel.

    You can use any pair from any triad above to change the feel, for example adding a third note to give you a major 7 (E A D in F), a minor 13 (Eb Ab D) etc. Try it, AlsoRan - you’ll like it!
    I have been working with these triad grips lately so your post is timely. I will write this out and give it a try. I guess these would qualify for being called "Shell Voicings?" There is a study group from the JGO Jazz Blues Course I that has been using similar voicings, as spelled out in the course. Thanks.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    To me it depends on the situation. If you're backing a singer alone, then some extensions are probably called for. If comping for soloists, two or three note vanilla chords may be more appropriate, to avoid clashes with whatever the soloist might play. And all the continuum in between, depending on what is going on and how well you know the other band members. The less I know of the others, the fewer notes I play, in general, much of the time. I don't think one size fits all.
    What you say here has been my experience; If I'm playing the blues with non-jazz musicians I always ask how many extensions they wish me to play or not; Most say they are OK with dominate chords with an added 9 or a even a sharp 9 (once they know this is called the Hendrix chord, ha ha), but few feel comfortable with flat 9 or 13 chords. (or other type of substitutions like minor6 for the traditional IV Dom7 chord etc..., the mIII\VI7th to mIII\V7th sub etc...).

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    What you say here has been my experience; If I'm playing the blues with non-jazz musicians I always ask how many extensions they wish me to play or not; Most say they are OK with dominate chords with an added 9 or a even a sharp 9 (once they know this is called the Hendrix chord, ha ha), but few feel comfortable with flat 9 or 13 chords. (or other type of substitutions like minor6 for the traditional IV Dom7 chord etc..., the mIII\VI7th to mIII\V7th sub etc...).
    Its very helpful getting real world experience like this! I know there are no absolutes, but I like gauging what I might hear from different musicians, including non-Jazz Blues players.

    Thanks.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    What you say here has been my experience; If I'm playing the blues with non-jazz musicians I always ask how many extensions they wish me to play or not.
    That's great if they know and understand what's possible. But in 60 years of backing blues, rock, and pop acts, I haven't met many performers who knew what extensions are let alone how they can be used effectively outside of jazz. My approach has always been to introduce a few 9ths and the occasional (and tasteful, at least in my opinion) 13th as an inside inversion (the 7b-3-6 triad I mentioned earlier in this thread) and see what response I get. Unless it's an artist covering his or her own recording and wanting a close to note perfect copy, the response is about 95% positive with only an occasional complaint. I was actually shocked that one of the biggest blues artists I've backed over the last 30 years (an accomplished musician and an innovative bluesman for whom I've played festivals and club dates since the early '90s) went nuts in a not so nice way when the band - instigated by me - did a really jazzy version of Little Wing to open a show. He told me that our "jazz cr@p sounds like wrong notes" and we never did that again.

    The most interesting thing I've found regarding "jazz chords" in the blues is that careful, judicious use of extensions can make the blues even bluesier - and many savvy blues artists (many of whom haven't a clue what the chords are) like and request more. I've been the guitarist in the Philly Blues Kings for over 15 years. We're the house band at a local club, so we back touring acts and host a weekly jam to which hundreds of players at all skill levels come. I get more questions about chording and solo lines than I ever imagined I would. And I can't count the number of times I've been asked to play for a touring act and either the headliner or someone with him or her says "I love what you're doing - you're a jazz guy, aren't you?"

    Here's a bootleg clip from about a month ago that somebody posted on YT. You're hearing my Epi Frankenpaul 7 (EMG neck pup only) through the Leslie 3300. The smooth OD is from my Wampler Tumnus. That Leslie has a serious tube preamp with OD that also adds a creamy, bluesy boost - but I have to control it from the Hammond or with the many knobs on the Leslie cab, which is cumbersome during a performance. So I use the Tumnus and just switch between the Leslie and the Vibrolux that's sitting on top of it. That's Maci Miller at the mic - she's a wonderful and accomplished jazz artist who also loves the blues and is our vocalist. I push the extensions envelope about as hard as I can without offending the pure blues dudes on this, which is one of my favorite blues tunes - No Beginner at the Blues, by Frankie Miller and Will Jennings:


    Here's a short clip of the intro to Dr Feelgood with some obviously jazzy extensions stirred into a blues mix:


    And here's a clip from a jazzy Stormy Monday (I'm on the Hammond here):


  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    That's great if they know and understand what's possible. But in 60 years of backing blues, rock, and pop acts, I haven't met many performers who knew what extensions are let alone how they can be used effectively outside of jazz.
    I should have been clearer; At first I'll just mention that I would like to use extensions and other aspects of jazz-blues. If they don't understand these concepts as-spoken, then I'll play them with NO mention of anything related to theory; E.g. I just play.

    Often one will say "yea, I heard that before and I like it, go for it". This falls into the many discussions at this forum about understanding theory (musical or jazz). Often experienced \ those with good "ears", non-jazz players, can play the hell out of (or over) extensions, altered harmony etc... They just don't understand the common terms used by those that talk theory.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    I should have been clearer; At first I'll just mention that I would like to use extensions and other aspects of jazz-blues. If they don't understand these concepts as-spoken, then I'll play them with NO mention of anything related to theory; E.g. I just play.

    Often one will say "yea, I heard that before and I like it, go for it". This falls into the many discussions at this forum about understanding theory (musical or jazz). Often experienced \ those with good "ears", non-jazz players, can play the hell out of (or over) extensions, altered harmony etc... They just don't understand the common terms used by those that talk theory.
    This is great insight that you and Nevershould have revealed to guys like me who have pretty much always played alone. I can count on the fingers on my two hands the number of times I have played with others.

    This is the year that I am looking to change that. I will copy you gentlemen's approach to comping with others.

    Great playing Nevershould! You have probably had so much fun playing guitar in your life that its criminal! Carry on, and I hope the "coppers" aren't on to you!

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Hey AlsoRan... there is much more that single momentary harmonic organization and use of extensions.

    Part of becoming a better jazz player, hell just a better musician in general, is learning how to musically organize your use of extensions. The old days of embellishment approach of improv or anything goes if it sounds good have been gone for decades. Part of the Vanilla result etc...

    Jsaras brought up great point about Autumn leaves... but that is more about voicings, which when you get better at live performance or playing in general, your aware of the ...how, why, where and when notes function or musically work in live context. Typically live casual performance have standard "Head Arrangements"... or what and where you can play etc...

    The whole concept of extensions is really dated. I mean.... I could get into modern Harmonic Rhythm concepts... but that involves knowing what to use... the Harmonic Rhythm is the Where etc...

    Changes are generally used casually because... as jazz players we need to know what possible extensions are implied and why. And what the choices used imply... This allows playing the same tune(s) differently, or having the options to do so when performing and have Musical organization.

    I have thought long and hard about your post, especially my understanding that you are saying using 9, 11, 13 in improvisation is outdated. Sadly, I am finding that this is the sound my ears latch on to. Heck, maybe I am outdated too when it comes to my Jazz tastes, because for me, it is like a voice that is soaring above and into the next octave without hitting the root note and "resetting" things.

    Someone mentioned a book by Garrison Fewell, "Jazz Improvisation for Guitar: A Melodic Approach." This books give fingerings that drive you into extensions and are a bit more horizontal than the ol' one position vertical fingerings that I used for so long. Anyway, I finally understand what the heck he was saying in that book and his examples are ear-catching for me the way extensions are incorporated into the lines. For now, this has been my focus. I kinda of hate that its outdated, but its not the first party that I was late to attend, lol.

    Thanks.