The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    What is music?

    Do you know the answer to that question? Recently, listening to some young jazz guitarists I felt as if they needed someone to tell them.

    Music is the notes AND the spaces between the notes. That's why melodies aren't constant 8th notes or 16th notes with no rests between the notes, that's not music to anyone. The spaces between the notes, in the right places, are a big part of what gives the music its emotive quality, vibe.

    Music is 3 dimensional, it's both the notes AND the spaces between the notes that create the sense of time in the music. Time, there we have the 3rd dimension of music. Music must be in time because music that isn't in time doesn't make sense. It's like Joe said, "there are no wrong notes in music, just notes in the wrong places," in other words at the wrong time. That's also why, along with the clef and the key, the time signature is the first thing on the musical staff. If the spaces between the notes were not an integral part of what music is, then we wouldn't even need a time signature on the staff, think about that.

    Again, listening to some young jazz guitarists, I really wondered if anyone ever told them what music is? Because pretty much everything they play is blazing fast, notes flying everywhere, on and on. That thing just begins to sound like playing scales really fast but not utilizing the best phrasing possible, because there's not enough space in their improv.

    Case in point: You ever hear a guy play, who can play really fast and sound good, but then when he has to slow it down and play a ballad then he suddenly sounds like crap? If not, you don’t have to look far to find it, guys like that are all over youtube. My teacher says it's actually harder to sound great playing ballads than it is playing up-tempo tunes. Miles even said things of that nature, adding that the note selection actually becomes more critical when playing at slower tempos. My teacher pointed out that he's heard his share of students who can play fast and sound good at fast tunes but suck when trying to play ballads, BUT if he hears a guy who can sound excellent on ballads, that same guy will also sound good on up-tempo stuff. Wow, that's a very interesting and powerful statement from an experienced music educator, an educator who is also a crazy fantastic player, like it's ridiculous how good he is, just amazing.

    ALL of the best players I've heard, and admire, sound outstanding on ballads, leaving more space and playing with great phrasing, note selection, and melodic feeling. Learn to respect not just the notes, but also the spaces between the notes, and you'll significantly improve your improv.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Were the young guitarists you heard all made of straw?

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Were the young guitarists you heard all made of straw?
    Touche! Nice.

  5. #4

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    Your topic says "what is music" but you're talking about "rules of music"

  6. #5

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    I like melody with developed phrases and then faster more subdivided rhythms interspersed. It gives you melody to follow and then there's excitement too. Fast all the time can be good depending on how well it's done. I usually like rhythm so if it's done well I will enjoy it but not necessarily listen to it all the time. Poor playing is poor playing regardless of what rhythms are used.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu
    Your topic says "what is music" but you're talking about "rules of music"
    Umm, those are part of what music is.

  8. #7

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    It seems to me that young musicians know very well what music is.

  9. #8

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    Music is sound, harmony, rhythm and structure.

    Music is the only traditional form of art dedicated to the human ear. (Every other form of classic art relies on visual impression). Music can be read and experienced, like poetry, by people who can read music. Then we just use our eyes, but it's understood that without ever having heard music this wouldn't be possible.
    Music relies on sound, but a sound by itself is not music.

    Sound art is a modern form of art that has nothing to do with music. A sound recorded on vinyl, packaged in fancy cover art is just that: A sound. It takes more for it to become music, regardless of what the author may claim.
    In certain modern music the composer may strive to break away from harmony, rhythm and structure. The result is converging into sound art and the audience may have a hard time recognize the work as music. Our eyes could help us interpret the situation; If there's a conductor in tails waving a wand, the noise is probably supposed to be "music".
    Last edited by JCat; 01-17-2022 at 06:52 AM.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Haze
    BUT if he hears a guy who can sound excellent on ballads, that same guy will also sound good on up-tempo stuff.
    Im struggling to find the correlation between being good at playing ballads, automatically making you good at playing up tempo, given that they are at opposite ends of the tempo spectrum. It appears to me that ballad and uptempo playing present different and distinct challenges that would both need to be worked on.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzism
    Im struggling to find the correlation between being good at playing ballads, automatically making you good at playing up tempo, given that they are at opposite ends of the tempo spectrum. It appears to me that ballad and uptempo playing present different and distinct challenges that would both need to be worked on.
    +1
    This is very real and reasonable thinking.

  12. #11

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    Pat Martino played guitar like he fired a machine gun.
    Pat also played amazing jazz ballads ... e.g. Blue In Green.

  13. #12

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    Music is attention on the qualities of the sounds.

  14. #13

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    Could you provide some examples of these young players? I'm not that good at searching in Youtube. Mostly, i listen to the "older" stuff, so i have no notion of what younger players are doing these days.

  15. #14

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    Music is a social space.

  16. #15

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    Jazz or all the music?

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    Jazz or all the music?
    All of it. It’s all shaped by its social function, the playing of it requires some sort of social structure for instance. Music has a social function in how it is consumed.

    Rather obvious, but when you think about it harmony and other formal aspects can be understood as emergent from these social aspects; for instance the high degree of stylistic uniformity of 18th century music and its treatment of harmony as opposed to the increasing stylistic diversity into the 19th century (and formal complexity) can be best understood through a lens of a societal shift in how music was consumed and understood.

    And that’s just within the European canon.

    When we get to jazz; the changes are all dominated by the shifting social spaces of the music and its societal context. And we are now seeing that shifting again, through the use of social media and so on.

    Without this social context, music would simply be ordered noises. While I’ve heard that as a definition, it’s now how anyone actually thinks of, or feels about music.

  18. #17

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    Which goes back the OPs point. Jazz used to have a social context that involved non jazz musicians.

    Keith Swanwick had an excellent term ‘pseudo music’ to talk about the type of music that gets made at music college, such as the dreaded ‘Berklee funk.’

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    All of it. It’s all shaped by its social function, the playing of it requires some sort of social structure for instance. Music has a social function in how it is consumed.

    Rather obvious, but when you think about it harmony and other formal aspects can be understood as emergent from these social aspects; for instance the high degree of stylistic uniformity of 18th century music and its treatment of harmony as opposed to the increasing stylistic diversity into the 19th century (and formal complexity) can be best understood through a lens of a societal shift in how music was consumed and understood.

    And that’s just within the European canon.

    When we get to jazz; the changes are all dominated by the shifting social spaces of the music and its societal context. And we are now seeing that shifting again, through the use of social media and so on.

    Without this social context, music would simply be ordered noises. While I’ve heard that as a definition, it’s now how anyone actually thinks of, or feels about music.
    What if there were no social media?

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    What if there were no social media?
    Then music would have a different context to function in.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Then music would have a different context to function in.
    But I guess there are people who don't have a computer.

  22. #21

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    Music is communication. At its best, it communicates the intimate human condition as does profound literature and visual art. I agree completely with James about the litmus test of playing ballads since a musician cannot hide behind a flurry of notes or mindless, pre-conceived, academic improvisations. He/she must get to the core of the sentiment revealed in the song without artifice, cliches, or mathematical formulations as promulgated in music academies and on most Youtube tutorials. The masters of the ballad were Dexter Gordon, Gene Ammons, Chet Baker, Shirley Horn, Billie Holiday, Nat Cole, Johnny Hartman, Joe Williams, Tony Bennett, Wes Montgomery, Ben Webster, Coleman Hawkins, Theolonius Monk. In Classical Music, we also have the masters of the lieder, adagio movements, nocturnes as Horowitz, Kempff, Casals, Rubenstein, Heifitz, Perlman. It takes a higher level of artistry to play this music since one cannot hide behind technique . . . your soul is bared. In the Classical world, there are many examples of young musicians who have these talents. A recent find for me(thanks to our member, Jonah) was Petrick Ceku, an Albanian Classical Guitarist. Perhaps, members here can provide examples of young Jazzers who play ballads well. Any takers???? In the meantime, here's Cotrane and Johnny Hartman in the classic "My One and Only Love." Enjoy!
    Marinero


  23. #22

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  24. #23

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  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemuel
    Could you provide some examples of these young players? I'm not that good at searching in Youtube. Mostly, i listen to the "older" stuff, so i have no notion of what younger players are doing these days.
    The discussion of "young players" is a common one here; Of course anyone can find players (of any age), that are lacking.

    So instead I recommend one seek out the young players that are really swinging and making music. There are many threads (e.g. under Players), that have featured such young guns.

    Maybe the majority of young players are lacking compared to prior generations; I don't know. But a statement as broad as the top post about younger players is folly.