The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hi. I have been fighting triads for some time. As for their melodic and musical value, I have no doubts. But I have a lot of mess when it comes to their applications.
    From the practical side - because only such is worth practicing in my opinion.

    So I was looking for the perfect approach. I even took a course with Jordan ... But it didn't fit my mind. I'm good at scales. I have fingerings well done. And now I look for different triads in each position of the scale, mix them together and try to move around the scale with triads.

    Question - is this a good approach and is it worth going in this direction?

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  3. #2

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    Question - is this a good approach and is it worth going in this direction?
    What's the destination?

  4. #3
    Generalans, my main goal is more modern sounds, I love the textures and colors. This is the kind of sound he has on Charles Altura, for example.

    Generally I know that triads are a good direction, but I don't know how to go about it. Is it better from the side of scales (i.e. as I wrote that we are looking for all triads in scales) or better from the side of chords (you have a chord and you are looking for triads on subsequent intervals in the chord) and thus use upper structures.

    Has anyone been at a similar time and can I suggest something from you?

  5. #4

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    Try writing out and playing solos over standards using only triads.

  6. #5

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    Check out this video on triad pairs, used over a minor blues. More modern sounds, simple ideas and not hard to do.


  7. #6

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    Triads cry out for ' pivoting '.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dana
    Try writing out and playing solos over standards using only triads.

    Hi Dana. Thank you for your response. Yes, I'm working on standards made only of trids. You can see the voices very well and how they match each other and resolve each other. For each chord I try to use 3 triads - to have extensions. This is a great exercise. But when I play a triad only solo it sounds like a triad solo ))))

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by WILSON 1
    Triads cry out for ' pivoting '.

    Hey Wilson, thanks for writing. What do you mean - pivots? Can you give any example how do you think about pivots?

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by freud
    Hi Dana. Thank you for your response. Yes, I'm working on standards made only of trids. You can see the voices very well and how they match each other and resolve each other. For each chord I try to use 3 triads - to have extensions. This is a great exercise. But when I play a triad only solo it sounds like a triad solo ))))
    Yes, that's normal for the process. At first you overuse it, but after awhile it becomes a natural part of your playing. That's how I've always learned anyway.

  11. #10
    Of course, it takes time for everything ... This is the most valuable currency we pay for progress. What I mean and ask is to choose the best / most optimal way to learn triads and incorporate them into your playing. That's why I asked at the beginning is it better to learn triads in a scale or to look at each chord separately and use the triads for extensions? Someone is talking about pivots. Maybe some other ideas?

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by freud
    Hey Wilson, thanks for writing. What do you mean - pivots? Can you give any example how do you think about pivots?

    Pivots are playing the tones of the chord an octave below the first note that you start your pivot on.

    So that if you had a C triad C-E-G and you decided to do a root pivot you would play the C then reach down an octave for the E and G.

    But, what I should have suggested is that you consider a triad arpeggio as this will lend more interest and is more rhythmically accommodating since it produces a
    four tone construct ( as though your triad was a chord ).

    C arpeggio is C-E-G-C and here you would play the last note C high and reach down an octave to the C again.

    You are ' officially ' only using a triad but you can introduce an extension after you get real comfortable.

    I like starting from the fifth G so I play G-C-E-G but will then add on the major 7th B.....but it's pretty from the E too ( adding the B ).

  13. #12

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    There are no optimal ways...

    Triads are almost nothing without quite big harmonic context built in major/minor 3rd relationship (trial harmony ... functional or modal... whatever)

    What you seem to do is playing scales in intervals . . In 3rds in this case

    It is very narrow application but also works.

    Just try to be musical, add one extra not here one there diatonic or chromatic...

    There are no secret paths or secure results...

    Any conception works... choose something and hear how it works

    just try and listen.. listen and try.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by freud
    Of course, it takes time for everything ... This is the most valuable currency we pay for progress. What I mean and ask is to choose the best / most optimal way to learn triads and incorporate them into your playing. That's why I asked at the beginning is it better to learn triads in a scale or to look at each chord separately and use the triads for extensions? Someone is talking about pivots. Maybe some other ideas?
    Do you know basic triads and their inversions in all positions and string sets? Open and close voiced? major minor dominant diminished and augmented?

    there is a wealth of knowledge and harmonic movement in knowing this kind of stuff..its a George van Epps kind of approach..

    altering basic and extended triads is where experimentation is necessary ..look at the E7#9 chord

    E G# D G..now this could be used as a "hendrix" vamp or seen as a Bb13b5/E (no root)

    Ahhh..now we have a new harmonic map to travel..all the implied chords of the Eb Major scale and the altered scale of Bb7 (B melodic minor and the D augmented chord in that scale and the implications of Bb and D augmented scales ..which now include the triads of Bb D and F# major and minor triads..

    and if you view the E7#9 as part of the D diminished scale and all the chords (maj and min triads again-- that are embedded in that scale) ..you now have a vast source of harmonic and melodic
    material to use for improvisational journeys

    yeah this is alot of work to get under your fingers..but the start is with these "simple" triads

    hope this gives you some ideas..

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    There are no optimal ways...

    Triads are almost nothing without quite big harmonic context built in major/minor 3rd relationship (trial harmony ... functional or modal... whatever)

    What you seem to do is playing scales in intervals . . In 3rds in this case

    It is very narrow application but also works.

    Just try to be musical, add one extra not here one there diatonic or chromatic...

    There are no secret paths or secure results...

    Any conception works... choose something and hear how it works

    just try and listen.. listen and try.


    Hey Jonah.


    Sure thing - there is no golden mean and no magic, secret way. I am of course aware of this. But this is a forum to ask, get inspired. For example, Wilson said about pivots - it's a new tool for me and I didn't know it.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen
    Do you know basic triads and their inversions in all positions and string sets? Open and close voiced? major minor dominant diminished and augmented?

    there is a wealth of knowledge and harmonic movement in knowing this kind of stuff..its a George van Epps kind of approach..

    altering basic and extended triads is where experimentation is necessary ..look at the E7#9 chord

    E G# D G..now this could be used as a "hendrix" vamp or seen as a Bb13b5/E (no root)

    Ahhh..now we have a new harmonic map to travel..all the implied chords of the Eb Major scale and the altered scale of Bb7 (B melodic minor and the D augmented chord in that scale and the implications of Bb and D augmented scales ..which now include the triads of Bb D and F# major and minor triads..

    and if you view the E7#9 as part of the D diminished scale and all the chords (maj and min triads again-- that are embedded in that scale) ..you now have a vast source of harmonic and melodic
    material to use for improvisational journeys

    yeah this is alot of work to get under your fingers..but the start is with these "simple" triads

    hope this gives you some ideas..
    Hey Wolfen.


    Yes, I practice the triads (minor, major, dim, aug) in all positions and inversions, in different string sets. As for the spread, so far I'm not doing them to get to the basics first.


    Practicing the triads is not a problem for me. This is an exercise for the monkey X the right number of hours. Normal thing.
    I mean more about the application of triads in the context of improvising with them. This is a mystery. There are so many possibilities ... That's why I wanted to ask more experienced people here in the forum who have already been to this place.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by freud
    Hey Jonah.


    Sure thing - there is no golden mean and no magic, secret way. I am of course aware of this. But this is a forum to ask, get inspired. For example, Wilson said about pivots - it's a new tool for me and I didn't know it.
    Yes, I see your point of course.

    I am just maybe more about general picture first... triads are such an important fundamental of harmony that if one knows/hears how functional harmony works or modal tertial harmony works many questions about practical application are solved.
    Most of the musical things about triads are about how the particular note of the triad is realated to current harmonic and metric context....
    If you play G major triad over C - where G is route and B is 7th and D is 9th ... where would you place them on/off beat?
    It is the question of tention resolution and respectively it is about hearing harmony behind the melody (even if it is not played)


    One of the purely mechanical 'tip' that is occasionally mentioned is 'pair of triads'.
    You take two triads that do not have notes in common and try to combine them... mixing them in different patterns. This way get a 6-note scale that is arranged in different intervals.
    This i purely mechanical method - it does not give you solution - but I think - as well as pentatonics in jazz - it is made to forcefully push a student into melodic thinking, to break inert scalar playing.