JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 44) - Jordu

[TOMMO]

Since nobody has mentioned it yet - a bit of trivia: the tune's original title was "Minor Escamp" and that was used for the Duke Jordan Trio's (original?) recording in 1954. I haven't found any info why the name has been changed to "Jordu"...

[John A.]

Since nobody has mentioned it yet - a bit of trivia: the tune's original title was "Minor Escamp" and that was used for the Duke Jordan Trio's (original?) recording in 1954. I haven't found any info why the name has been changed to "Jordu"...

Jordu is a play on Duke Jordan's name (first syllable of last and first names). The usual reasons something like this happen include: a) a mistake in the original publishing and/or recording release and the "new" name was actually always the name; b) some sort of copyright shenanigans leading to the song being re-published under a new name; c) the composer just felt like changing the name just because; d) the composer made some sort of change in the song that he felt merited re-naming it. My money's on a) in this case, based on it being originally released on a French label under a made-up band name (I seriously doubt there really was an on-going group that called itself "The Birdlanders"), plus maybe some d) because the original has a more mournful feel than later versions by Jordan. Anybody up for a Phil Schaap seance (or listening to the billion hours of Bird Flight archives) to get the answer?

[TOMMO]

Thanks for the info, John. Wasn't "The Birdlanders" the title of a sampler album with tracks by different musicians/bands? That's how I understand it....

"Jordu" - Duke Jordan: so obvious (facepalms...)

[ragman1]

I liked Jeff's Jam du jour. I thought that was very subtle :-)

[Triple_Jazz]

1158296[/URL]]I do not ever mean people who are humble and gracious. It’s more a general statement about the forum as a whole. I see it as a classroom filled with kindergarten kids, first graders, high school kids, college students, master students, graduates and Phds. And they all think they are the teacher haha.

Just kidding. Or am I?

DB


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Theres no way to qualitate the DK effect as far as I can estimate. I think what may be rubbing you the wrong way is not that less competent musicians are more fervent to explain something, it’s that some people are more pedantic than others and they let you know it. If the skill level of one forum poster is not on par with the forum member they are addressing and BOTH members fall into the overtly pedantic category your bound to have some friction. For the most part the virtual jam is comprised of members who have gotten the feel of their compatriots. It should be viewed as a loose gathering like that of a jam session. Some sessions have vibing that’s worse than others. But like Skywalker at the mouth of the cave on Degobah, the session contains only that with which one brings in.

[John A.]

Not one of your best, to be honest, John, but it is pretty difficult. I managed to make it fit by doing it slowly but at speed I couldn't have done it, and I've tried a lot.

The thing with those dominants, going from major to minor as they do, means you can't get simple lines off the cuff that fit easily. So I tried only using notes that left out the 3rd which was hard in itself. I like to just let go and play but this required deliberate positioning and that's not my thing at all.

So then I thought let's just rush at it, no one'll notice, just blast through it, but that didn't work either. Maybe my ear's too sensitive but it didn't work for me.

I looked at various piano transcriptions and those players were doing it very well, good lines that neatly avoided the pitfalls. Same with some sax players. But guitar-wise I don't know.

I the end I more or less gave up because I just couldn't figure it, and I know others must be having the same problem.

So I don't know the answer. And those endless descending dominants become very repetitive too... it's just not an easy piece although listening to the head makes it sound pretty straightforward.

I thought the first chorus was semi-OK, but the second is a mess. I was trying to play sort of "across" the changes on the bridge with motifs, rather than just arpeggiating, but that's probably not the right approach. I spent a lot of time trying to get the head down, and I think by the time I finally got comfortable with it I was kind of out of gas mentally for improvising. I had also been working on it a couple of days ago with a slower backing track, and actually I found that much more difficult. At speed it feels a little more fluid to me. Ah well, that's what practicing is for. I might have some time later to take another run at it.

[mr. beaumont]

Where do people find lead sheets for these tunes? Or does everyone transcribe everything?

This would be a good time to talk about process...how does one get from a lead sheet of a tune they don't know to recording in a short period of time?

Here's my process...as an intermediate level player, this helps me get going...a more experienced player is going to have more tune experience to pull from...there's lots of similarities in tunes you can recognize after a while, but I feel like what I do each week would probably work for someone starting out too...

I start by listening to the tune and trying to get to where I can "sing" the melody and recognize the form first. Before I look at a sheet. I like looking at the sheet to "confirm" things I was hearing, rather than tell me what I should be hearing. Makes it easier for me to tell if the sheet has errors, which they sometimes do.

Then I write out the chord changes, and break the song up into it's form...I use a shorthand similar to gypsy jazz "grilles." I try to figure out as much of the melody as I can by ear, but in a short period of time, sometimes I need to just read it. A lot of times, I'll chop the melody off my posts here, because I beleive nobody wants to listen to the same melody at the beginning of every single post, but I definitely try learning as much of it as I can, or as mentioned before, at a bare minimum, I learn to sing it. I spend a little time just running the changes, trying to nail every chord...it's usually a noodly mess, but I do that to look at possibilites and hopefully get the noodles out of my system.

And then I kind of analyze the changes. I like to get things down to one chord per bar, or a couple of bars. I make notes of where I'm in a key for a certain amount of time, and important chords that demand to be addressed a little more directly.

And then that's it. Hit "record" and see what happens. And when I get a take not interrupted by my kids or the dog, that's usually what you get here

[mr. beaumont]

In a feeble attempt to lift a locomotive back onto the BNSF line...

One of the OTHER points of the Virtual Jam was to concentrate on jazz tunes written by jazz artists, as opposed to going through the Real Book or GASB tunes...which might account for some of these tunes being on the difficult side...but hey, if you don't challenge yourself, how do you learn?

[wzpgsr]

In a feeble attempt to lift a locomotive back onto the BNSF line...

One of the OTHER points of the Virtual Jam was to concentrate on jazz tunes written by jazz artists, as opposed to going through the Real Book or GASB tunes...which might account for some of these tunes being on the difficult side...but hey, if you don't challenge yourself, how do you learn?

Great point. Something I have tried to work on in this regard is knowing my limits and trying not to do too much over a complicated tune—thinking "five" instead of "ii-V" or even just "I need something crunchy here that's going to resolve to something not-crunchy." In addition to learning how to play jazz, I think you have to learn how to learn to play jazz.

[charlieparker]

As a lurker, I just wanted to say that I love the virtual jams.

I think it is interesting to hear all the different takes by people of different levels and styles in one place. As someone, who can't seem to get very far in jazz no matter how much I try, I appreciate those who are less accomplished who also participate.

I keep planning on posting a horrible clip one of these days, but with a small child time always seems to be an issue.

[Ronstuff]

And now.... Back to our regular programming
This might be crazy after all of that, but what the heck here's another take.
Back to the Guild for this one!

[Clint 55]

Was in the mix for 4 hours and got hosed lol. Tried to get a usable take on solo organ or piano and it wasn't happening. Oh well, keep practicing.

[Peterson]

[ragman1]

I liked that! Because you were relaxed and it was fun

In fact it makes me want to rush off and do one...

[Ronstuff]

This would be a good time to talk about process...how does one get from a lead sheet of a tune they don't know to recording in a short period of time?

Here's my process...as an intermediate level player, this helps me get going...a more experienced player is going to have more tune experience to pull from...there's lots of similarities in tunes you can recognize after a while, but I feel like what I do each week would probably work for someone starting out too...

I start by listening to the tune and trying to get to where I can "sing" the melody and recognize the form first. Before I look at a sheet. I like looking at the sheet to "confirm" things I was hearing, rather than tell me what I should be hearing. Makes it easier for me to tell if the sheet has errors, which they sometimes do.

Then I write out the chord changes, and break the song up into it's form...I use a shorthand similar to gypsy jazz "grilles." I try to figure out as much of the melody as I can by ear, but in a short period of time, sometimes I need to just read it. A lot of times, I'll chop the melody off my posts here, because I beleive nobody wants to listen to the same melody at the beginning of every single post, but I definitely try learning as much of it as I can, or as mentioned before, at a bare minimum, I learn to sing it. I spend a little time just running the changes, trying to nail every chord...it's usually a noodly mess, but I do that to look at possibilites and hopefully get the noodles out of my system.

And then I kind of analyze the changes. I like to get things down to one chord per bar, or a couple of bars. I make notes of where I'm in a key for a certain amount of time, and important chords that demand to be addressed a little more directly.

And then that's it. Hit "record" and see what happens. And when I get a take not interrupted by my kids or the dog, that's usually what you get here

Nice to get details about your process. I dig the writing a simplified « Grille » concept. I will be using that!

[mr. beaumont]

Nice to get details about your process. I dig the writing a simplified « Grille » concept. I will be using that!

Let me know if that "works" for you. Something about my brain makes the physical act of writing it out--even if I have a chart--stick so much better in my memory. My guess is it's one of those things that won't work for everybody, but for the people it works for, it really works.

[Triple_Jazz]

Ron that Guild sounds killer!

My process involves playing the changes many times around and being conscious of using different chord shapes and extensions each time around. I then drop the melody in and usually try to hybrid chord melody and single note for the head. You can see this with a lot of the tunes so far like Mello Tone and Nardis. I feel that helps me solidify the form. I can see writing it out as a good tool but I don’t think I’ve ever done that. Getting the right chord shapes by running through the head does it for me and gives meat to the tune when I play it in duo setting. It may sound like a simplistic solution (chord playing through the song repeatedly) but I recommend it.

[dogletnoir]

Having another go:

[wzpgsr]

Sorry gang. I'm playing hooky this week—my week to call the tune—out of necessity for a project that came my way. Lots of guitar, but not a lot of jazz for me the past 10 days or so. I'll be back!

[Jazzism]

[ragman1]

Last blast, as ever. I've worked out how to do it but it's not very fast (neither was the original) and the notes fit, including the altered ones. Whether it's good jazz is another issue. It's not bebop as we understand it... The head comes in at the end.

The next tune, however, is nectar from the gods

[charlieparker]

Last blast, as ever. I've worked out how to do it but it's not very fast (neither was the original) and the notes fit, including the altered ones. Whether it's good jazz is another issue. It's not bebop as we understand it... The head comes in at the end.

The next tune, however, is nectar from the gods

Nicely, done. Would like to hear the accompaniment a bit up in the mix.

[ragman1]

Cheers, Charlie, you're partially in luck. I don't have the solo separate but I do have the backing. That can be added to the mix to increase the volume of the backing against the lead.

Thing is that on my headphones the version I've published sounds good to me but peoples' equipment varies. It'll never sound brilliantly clear (it's just put together on a computer system) and adding to the mix might just make the whole thing fuzzier than it already is.

I'll send you the backing clip in a PM and, if you line everything up carefully, you can adjust it to your liking. Best I can do. Otherwise everybody might prefer a different mix to suit their own system.

Hope that suits.

[rpjazzguitar]

This would be a good time to talk about process...how does one get from a lead sheet of a tune they don't know to recording in a short period of time?

Here's my process...as an intermediate level player, this helps me get going...a more experienced player is going to have more tune experience to pull from...there's lots of similarities in tunes you can recognize after a while, but I feel like what I do each week would probably work for someone starting out too...

I start by listening to the tune and trying to get to where I can "sing" the melody and recognize the form first. Before I look at a sheet. I like looking at the sheet to "confirm" things I was hearing, rather than tell me what I should be hearing. Makes it easier for me to tell if the sheet has errors, which they sometimes do.

Then I write out the chord changes, and break the song up into it's form...I use a shorthand similar to gypsy jazz "grilles." I try to figure out as much of the melody as I can by ear, but in a short period of time, sometimes I need to just read it. A lot of times, I'll chop the melody off my posts here, because I beleive nobody wants to listen to the same melody at the beginning of every single post, but I definitely try learning as much of it as I can, or as mentioned before, at a bare minimum, I learn to sing it. I spend a little time just running the changes, trying to nail every chord...it's usually a noodly mess, but I do that to look at possibilites and hopefully get the noodles out of my system.

And then I kind of analyze the changes. I like to get things down to one chord per bar, or a couple of bars. I make notes of where I'm in a key for a certain amount of time, and important chords that demand to be addressed a little more directly.

And then that's it. Hit "record" and see what happens. And when I get a take not interrupted by my kids or the dog, that's usually what you get here

I appreciate this breakdown of your process since you routinely get excellent results.

I'll share mine, but it may be mostly a "don't do this".

I probably read better than I hear, or at least, reading is no struggle.

So, if I don't know the tune, I'm likely to look at the chart first. Probably the wrong way around. I don't recall if I listened to all the tunes on the clips I posted. I certainly listened to some. I can generally get through a chart sight-unseen because it's part of what I regularly do. My approach is based on knowing the chord tones, extensions and tensions, hearing the sound of the chords in my mind, scatting a solo (usually silently) and trying to play that. That's the goal. The reality is some paler version of it. I'm aware of some devices to make solos more interesting and, if I were a different person, I'd work harder on them. Usually, when I think to employ one, the solo gets worse.

How well it goes depends on whether I'm familiar with the sound of the chord sequences. When I don't know a tune, I'm likely to listen to a version or two. For jazz tunes that have been covered, I usually go to the original recording and then maybe a favorite player. For most of the music I play (not in this forum) I'm most interested in the groove and comping (because I'm playing the soloing cards I've been dealt -- too old to draw new cards). For swing tunes, it's not as big an issue, since I grew up with it.

When soloing I'm more likely to think about the emotion I'm trying to express while trying to avoid clams. Easiest way to avoid clams is to stick close to the chord tones. Easiest way to express emotion, for me, is to mentally scat sing lines that make me feel something.

Then, as the solo goes, I criticize it on the fly, usually for too many half and whole step intervals in a row, imprecise rhythmic feel, too much repetition or too-vanilla harmony. Then I try to throw something else in (a tritone sub, a slide slip, a different rhythmic pattern, muted string notes -- anything. Sometimes it works.

I swear that's my best effort in trying to explain how I approach a solo.

[lawson-stone]

Better late than never I suppose. finally got the head learned, more or less, and some sense of how the changes work.