Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Posts 1 to 25 of 110
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    Ragman had suggested we should try this tune a few weeks ago, we were finishing our rotation and when my turn came up, I selfishly didn't call it because I knew I wouldn't have time to work on it, and I really want to make sure I get to dig into this one!

    Anyway, it might not be a common jam tune, but its a fantastic song and I think can spawn a lot of discussion. So have at it!

    JGBE Virtual Jam  (Round 40) - Iris-1634248028563-jpg

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    But, but... it's MODAL!

    lovely tune

  4. #3

    User Info Menu


  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    Sorry, a further thought...

    Actually, I'm not sure it is modal, depends how you look at it. Modal tunes usually have simple chords for multiple bars, like So What. This one doesn't, it has chords that change per bar (mostly) and it's not as slow as it looks.

    I think it's the unconventional progression that gives the impression of its being a modal tune but, on reflection, it's probably not. It's 'normal' but unusual... so it almost certainly needs modes to solo with. It's not like it's 'in C' or some other key.

    (I've got a horrible feeling it's going to be murder to solo over and the temptation may be to write it all out first, like a tune, and then play it. Which is against my religion. But I don't know yet, I haven't tried it).

    Just sharing my nightmare :-)

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    dogletnoir -

    Nice. You made light work of that! Maybe I'm over-thinking it...

    Thing is, my lead sheet has all kinds of extended/altered chords on it. Lots of #11's and that strange Dbm thing. But maybe you've cracked it after all.

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Iris is awesome.

    Wayne is the man.

    The way I look at Shorter tunes is it's a melody that's harmonized with Wayne's patented voice-leading.

    Kinda hard to prescribe stuff to play. Every one of his tunes are kinda their own thing. Common tones are your friend.

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    Did this a while back. Now I’ve forgotten how to play it.



    I remember being interested in how the chords and the melody relate

  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    All quiet on the Wesrtern Front... Is it too tricky or too gloomy? Or am I persona non grata because of the Kris thing? Oh, well, it had to be done.

    I've already done lots of this (not easy) but I was waiting for Jeffery, who's normally put a version up by now, but maybe he's busy :-)

    I noticed that the Miles/Shorter versions seemed to desert many of the altered sounds for the solos and do it fairly diatonically, like dogletnoir. So maybe that's the answer. But I wanted to try for something more demanding.

    I have to say, though, that I don't think we'll better that version by Christian. Wonderful. Professionalism at work


  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    Lol, ill be up today. Homecoming week, lots of busy

    I wrote shitty lyrics to get into this tune more. That helps me on stuff thats a bit more "abstract."

    I'm completely in love with this song.

    Here's my lyrics. Helps me phrase...as modern as Wayne's writing was, sometimes its best just to play off the melody as much as possible, like some old school swing cat. Maybe thats the allure of Shorter's writing to me...it sounds space age but its also so rooted in jazz tradition.

    So yeah...words.

    Now I struggle to see
    a glimpse of her and I, and all that we used to be
    and strange..how it comes and it goes
    a mem'ry of the love that I once knew

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    Now I struggle to see
    a glimpse of her and I, and all that we used to be
    and strange..how it comes and it goes
    a mem'ry of the love that I once knew

    tears up

    Nice, you old softie. And I see you've been very well brought up. You could have said 'her and me' for the rhyme but your impeccable sense of grammar won out

    (EDIT)

    Ignore that last bit about grammar. I'm talking nonsense
    Last edited by ragman1; 10-18-2021 at 09:03 AM.

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    Here we go. Now ill take a listen too...


  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I wrote shitty lyrics to get into this tune more. That helps me on stuff thats a bit more "abstract."

    I'm completely in love with this song.

    Here's my lyrics. Helps me phrase...
    This is an example of a genius idea that makes a guy think “now why didn’t I think of that.” Other ideas:

    - Paying attention to the natural rhythmic phrasing of human speech is great for the ear. How about transcribing just the rhythms of lyrics?

    - Read a line of text, then try to mimic the rhythms over one or more chords

    - Check out some Eddie Jefferson

    - Some words just naturally form triplets. Starting on the upbeat, you get a common bebop cliché of an eighth note approaching a triplet: “I’m / adamant that the blah blah blah”.

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr

    - Read a line of text, then try to mimic the rhythms over one or more chords

    - Check out some Eddie Jefferson.
    Eddie Jefferson is definitely genius! Clever guy.

    I got stuck with a solo on a tune once (standard show tune) so I thought I'd mimic the lyrics to get the phrasing right. Unfortunately it didn't sound like an instrumental solo any more. Playing the lyrics was good for the head but not much after that. It was too similar, definite and spaced out, etc.. so I had to give it up.

    Mind you, I don't think that's what Jeff's doing. Not from what he's playing, anyway.

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    Here we go. This is a tricky one, but I enjoyed it.



    Now on to listening to you folks.
    Last edited by John A.; 10-17-2021 at 01:08 AM.

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1

    tears up

    Nice, you old softie. And I see you've been very well brought up. You could have said 'her and me' for the rhyme but your impeccable sense of grammar won out
    Nope. "Her and me" is correct. Take "her" out of the sentence for a moment, and it's clear. You wouldn't say "glimpse of I." This is a common point of confusion. You say "me and her went to the store," and your mother corrects you with "she and I," but that only applies to the subject of a sentence, not the object.

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    After listening to the version recorded by Fred Hersch, I found out that I am too weak to make a recording an Iris in a week ... I need a minimum of one month.The piece itself is excellent and requires careful analysis - the brilliant W.Shorter.I will only add that I have known this piece for years but only from hearing / Miles Davis E.S.P./

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit59
    Iris is awesome.

    Wayne is the man.

    The way I look at Shorter tunes is it's a melody that's harmonized with Wayne's patented voice-leading.

    Kinda hard to prescribe stuff to play. Every one of his tunes are kinda their own thing. Common tones are your friend.
    +1
    This is the genius of W.Shorter, a lot musicians consider him the best jazz composer.
    There's a brilliant lesson on Iris on YouTube, but for pianists, guitarists can benefit too.



  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Nope. "Her and me" is correct. Take "her" out of the sentence for a moment, and it's clear. You wouldn't say "glimpse of I." This is a common point of confusion. You say "me and her went to the store," and your mother corrects you with "she and I," but that only applies to the subject of a sentence, not the object.
    That's what I said. You jumped too quickly :-)

    (He didn't say you and me because he got the grammar right)


    (EDIT)

    Quite right. Ignore my drivel!
    Last edited by ragman1; 10-18-2021 at 09:04 AM.

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Here we go. Now ill take a listen too...

    Your feeling for that tune certainly comes shining through :-)

    Love the red arches. Splendid

  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    This is Wayne's own version. Much better soloing than on the Miles version. I thought they hadn't really got it together on that one.


  22. #21

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Nope. "Her and me" is correct. Take "her" out of the sentence for a moment, and it's clear. You wouldn't say "glimpse of I." This is a common point of confusion. You say "me and her went to the store," and your mother corrects you with "she and I," but that only applies to the subject of a sentence, not the object.
    i'd just avoid the whole issue and use 'we' or 'us' in the appropriate context instead... but i'm not all that literary, LOL.

  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    Don't want to hog the place but this soloing is based solely on the chords without the extensions - i.e. EM7#11 is just EM7, Bb7+ is just Bb7, etc. I don't know how much difference it makes or if you think it's better. Might be better, actually.


  24. #23

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    After listening to the version recorded by Fred Hersch, I found out that I am too weak to make a recording an Iris in a week ... I need a minimum of one month.The piece itself is excellent and requires careful analysis - the brilliant W.Shorter.I will only add that I have known this piece for years but only from hearing / Miles Davis E.S.P./
    "Even though “Iris” is considered a jazz ballad, it doesn’t have a typical ballad feel. The quarter notes actually move at a medium tempo, but if you feel it in “one,” you’ll get the overall ballad feel. It’s kind of like a “waltz-ballad.” “Iris” was composed and recorded at a time in the mid-60s when the Miles Davis group was relaxing the boundaries of how to play jazz. I say “relaxing” because the process was gradual. They still played with a steady jazz pulse, but the pulse wasn’t stated as obviously as before. Tony Williams didn’t play the traditional quarter-8th-8th note ride cymbal pattern. Ron Carter didn’t always play the root of every chord. The chords didn’t have to follow the blues or ii/V/I patterns. The stylistic walls of jazz were gradually becoming porous.
    While it’s of course a good idea to practice tunes like “Iris,” at the same time I recommend that you immerse yourself in listening to the music from this period. Spend a half-hour or so each day simply listening to the music from E.S.P. and the other Miles Davis albums from this time, or Shorter’s solo recordings. If you can, lie down, close your eyes, and simply let the sound of the music wash over you. Do this for a few months and you’ll find that this music will become a lot easier to learn. You’ll also begin phrasing it in a way that’s stylistically consistent with the songs themselves. Yes, there’s a bebop influence in the background, but pure bebop won’t help you improvise over these chord changes. Immerse yourself in the music and you’ll gradually start understanding it differently, as it begins to feel more and more “natural.”

  25. #24

    User Info Menu

    That's kind of exactly it, I think, Kris. Playing changes on this stuff isn't the answer.

    I'm clearing some time today to listen closer to people's versions so far...from what I've heard on every version so far (mine included) i hear that struggle to want to make it a standard jazz tune...that track doesn't really help, its too "standard swinging" for this tune...sunnybass has a track, but im not sure i can do this one without hearing some chords...maybe I'll try.

  26. #25

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    That's kind of exactly it, I think, Kris. Playing changes on this stuff isn't the answer.

    I'm clearing some time today to listen closer to people's versions so far...from what I've heard on every version so far (mine included) i hear that struggle to want to make it a standard jazz tune...that track doesn't really help, its too "standard swinging" for this tune...sunnybass has a track, but im not sure i can do this one without hearing some chords...maybe I'll try.
    +1
    Jeff,
    That's why I find this tune very difficult to master in one week.
    However, I sincerely wish you good luck.