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03-13-2010, 08:48 PM #1CC323 Guest
Hey guys,
Is it just me or is bebop so technical that seems almost impossible to do it justice without using at least somewhat prerehearsed licks? How are bebop chops so confounding compared to normal guitar technique? How does one get really solid with it (like Benson or Remler or Bailey or Martino solid)?
Thanks!
Chris
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03-13-2010 08:48 PM
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For chops, you must take your axe out to the woodshed.
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Yes, bebop is complex, and fast, and you bet that accomplished players have spent many, many hours in the woodshed learning scales and licks. As much as people like to say otherwise, jazz improv is not really "instantaneous composition". It's more like instantaneous assembly of pre-worked-out ideas. Not to take anything away from great bebop players, of course...there is amazing craft displayed in the solos of Parker, Monk, Brown, Adderley, Gillespie, Montgomery, etc.
To get really solid with it, study...transcribe...listen...practice!
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For example, when you look through the Omnibook, you'll quickly learn to spot where he uses the "Charlie Parker Lick".
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03-15-2010, 08:42 PM #6CC323 GuestOriginally Posted by cosmic gumbo
Thanks for the responses.
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03-15-2010, 11:45 PM #7TommyD Guest
The word "shred" has ruined creative and artistic guitar playing.
Spare me.
T/
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I like these.
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Your bebop-playing would most definately benefit from an arsenal of bebop-licks in your head.... 'chop' the Parker-themes into pieces and you have all the licks you need!
I recommand starting with Donna Lee, some great II-V-I licks in there.
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Originally Posted by CC323
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Originally Posted by FatJeff
I have a great deal of respect for engineers but what you have described is an engineer's approach to "jazzy" sounds.
The great jazz players, and those who would walk in their path, play in the moment. They get past -- or totally avoid -- assembly of quasi-musical noises into quasi-musical moments. They play what they hear.
The great beboppers played quick because they had quick ears and quicker minds.
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Originally Posted by Les Gear
None of this takes away from the originality of the great bebop solos!
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same cells, or phrases, or note combinations, or scale fragments, or arpeggios, or ideas
I have given up trying to play faster than I can think, (over about metronome 210 or so, ) except for a bit of fun.
to actually put together a decent new melody over chords, I have to slow it down. and it's more fun for me to do that.
also some people (charlie parker for instance) can think a h..l of a lot faster than I can.
that's why part of why he was a genius, and I'm not.
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And after a while, quite a while, I figured out , that trying to playing fast as posssible, no thinking involved, just riffing, was leaving me feeling completely empty, bored, that I had wasted my time, and everyone else's.
and a lot of this was from playing with other people who were doing the speed thing, some better than others, but all, basically just mindless stuff. and being influenced by them.
I stopped playing with them, and that helped me to figure this out. and talking to players who do not value speed over all else.
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03-16-2010, 10:21 PM #15TommyD GuestOriginally Posted by Les Gear
There is no substitute for hard work.
Tommy/
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Check out David Baker´s book about the bebop lines and scales... is a great help to develop a bebop playing.
That book will open your eyes to the licks that you will find in the charlie parker omnibook and other bebop solos.
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Originally Posted by Les Gear
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Originally Posted by derek
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Originally Posted by Meggy
If we took this way outside of what we hear in jazz, say traditional Indian music, I sincerely doubt we could play that stuff convincingly without some serious shed time.
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Originally Posted by Meggy
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Originally Posted by derek
Originally Posted by lkmuller
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Originally Posted by Meggy
What are the similarities and differences between Chris Standring and Jimmy Bruno's respective courses?
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Originally Posted by Jazzyteach65
I think the Bruno course could be excellent (actually I'm sure it is) but I have the impression that you need to be prepared to "buy into" his approach and methods to get it to work for you. Kind of similar to the way you would select a face-to-face teacher.
The Standring course is self-contained on a CD ROM, or can be accessed online of course, but maybe a little less like having an individual teacher. Having said that, I understand that Mr Standring is very happy to respond and help with any individual issues regarding the course. It is IMO a very good product, which does some very important/useful things, which is not addressed very much elsewhere. To me it seems pretty flexible, in that you don't have to learn specific fingerings or whatever - in fact that is kind of one of it's big points.
I've gone on for longer than I meant to - these are just my thoughts, and others may wish to correct me about the Bruno course, or have other opinions.
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03-19-2010, 08:51 PM #24CC323 GuestOriginally Posted by TommyD
Warm Regards,
Chris
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03-19-2010, 09:00 PM #25CC323 GuestOriginally Posted by Little Jay
Deepest Gratitude,
Chris
Grant Green, What is This Thing
Yesterday, 01:59 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading