JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 32) - In a Mellow Tone

[kris]

What about this one? I like it very much.

[ragman1]

I already told Victor I thought his playing was good. Of course it is, it's quite skilled gypsy jazz type guitar. But I still think it's not quite right for this tune. At least, not to my ear. And I'm sure as hell not going to tell him any different. Holding peoples' hand isn't my style. Sorry about that.

I think if he laid back a bit he'd do it better. But it's up to him. Poor chap, we're all discussing him like he's not here.

[lawson-stone]

For some reason the tune has been tricky for me, which is odd because it's not hard. So much is similar, I find it easy to get mixed up. Anyhow, this is a bit too boomy, but I decided instead of recording direct to run the DVMark Micro 50 to the 10" speaker and mic the speaker. Probably why it's boomy, I need to move the mic.

Tried to relax a bit on this, the title screen being my inspiration for a more relaxed... mellow! take.

Feedback is welcome.

In case you're curious (or not!) that is me in the picture, and that is my (late) horse, "The General." The General was lots of fun, gave me years of companionship and enjoyment. Riding a horse is much like playing music, it's a two-way interaction. Two years ago Easter, the General had a freak accident and broke his "thigh" bone and had to be put down. I miss him, even though I have another horse that is becoming very dear to me. Still, The General was my challenge, my teacher, my friend, and in the end, with a broken leg, he still climbed the hill from our pasture creek up to the barn--the vet said he did it for me.

Anyhow, that picture is special to me.

[John A.]

I already told Victor I thought his playing was good. Of course it is, it's quite skilled gypsy jazz type guitar. But I still think it's not quite right for this tune. At least, not to my ear. And I'm sure as hell not going to tell him any different. Holding peoples' hand isn't my style. Sorry about that.

I think if he laid back a bit he'd do it better. But it's up to him. Poor chap, we're all discussing him like he's not here.

Interesting ... I don't hear much Gypsy jazz in there at all. Except for one fast bit where it is more GJ-ish it sounds much more like plain old swing in the Carl Kress/Eddie Land vein. The brushes and accordion accentuate that to me. But this is subjective stuff.

Anyway, think it sounds great. I also think one's own internal sense of comfort with a tune and whether one has really "got" it and an audience's perception of one's command of it are often two different things.

Regarding tempos, some people play this quite fast and make it work ...

[ragman1]

Nicely played, especially the chord stabs. And, yes, I really mean it. And there's nothing like a lovely animal when it bonds with you. I'll never understand cruelty, they're too like us in so many ways.

[kris]

I love my dog.
Attachment 84189

[Triple_Jazz]

I’ve taken the advice to play it “mello” and I feel I have better results. It’s actually hard for me to play mello so I now know I really need to practice it.

[wzpgsr]

I have to admit that sometimes the opinions about playing here in the forum are at least strange.
I don't know why this is ...
For example, this is about my recording of "Red Clay":
"In your recording, I hate to be critical, but, I don't hear the melody and the whole thing sounds like a soupy mix of notes and chords. How can you call it "Red Clay" ? I just don't hear it. I hear a ton of piano though. Sorry my friend."

To be fair to the regular contributors in these virtual jam threads, all of whom I admire and respect, that comment was made in the separate "Red Clay" thread you created in the gear section and was NOT written by one of the regulars in Mr. B's "Red Clay" thread. Frankly, these virtual jam threads are the most "honest" takes you're gonna get in an online forum because people are actually posting their playing for all to hear, warts and all. "Advice," in as much as it's given here, is largely constructive and well-intended. Please, let's not turn these threads into petty pissing contests—that's what the "history" and "politics" threads are for

[lawson-stone]

I apologize for yet another posting on this. I continue to try to work out how to play the changes and not just do arpeggios... not sure I succeeded here but I think I'm more comfortable with the song's structure at least.

The picture... it was a HAWT Day in Israel. We'd been excavating on our site since 4:30 AM. The sun was high, it was about 11:30 AM and we had still maybe 2 hours left to dig... it was dry, choking-dusty work. I looked up and saw this van tootling up the tel toward us. They stopped, and opened up their van into a SMOOTHIE BAR. Seriously, ice-cold fruit smoothies... FREE. We all slurped up smoothies with a generous portion of dust and dirt from the tel on our faces, hands, shirts, hair, and in the smoothies, but wow, it was relief! They then just drove off. We had no idea where they came from, who they were, or where they went.

Curious business model...

Your feedback, if you aren't tired of my clips, is welcome.

[lawson-stone]

I have to admit that sometimes the opinions about playing here in the forum are at least strange.
I don't know why this is ...
For example, this is about my recording of "Red Clay":
"In your recording, I hate to be critical, but, I don't hear the melody and the whole thing sounds like a soupy mix of notes and chords. How can you call it "Red Clay" ? I just don't hear it. I hear a ton of piano though. Sorry my friend."

Even in a different thread, I thought that was an unusual comment too. I think most jazz musicians understand improvising happens on a continuum or spectrum. On one end, we embellish and elaborate on the melody, the fills begin to eclipse the original tune, the "obligato" becomes "obligatory" as it were... and soon we are still thinking about the melody in our minds but playing something that isn't the melody... maybe follows some of the phrase lengths or rhythmic ideas... but then at the other end, we strip the tune down to its essential harmonic structure and improvise over that, creating melodies and using ideas from many sources. At that end of the spectrum, nobody should expect to "hear the melody" because the improvisation is not directly tied to it any more.

People have their preferences. Some like the embellished melody style; others want the freedom to create within the tunes harmonic structure. But it's all wonderful and genuinely jazz.

I would hope anyone commenting on a clip on this forum would realize that both of those approaches exist and are equally important. The comment on your clip evidently did not understand that, or simply decided the more independent improvisation was not legitimate. That's too bad for him, he missed a chance to learn something about the music.

[ragman1]

This is about 160 although it won't sound like it. And it's almost the witching hour here so this might be my last blast... although, technically, tomorrow is another day. Have fun

[Victor Saumarez]

May I try to be constructively critical? I think one reason you feel that you haven't cracked it is that you're probably playing it with the wrong feel. Your version is jaunty, lots of gung-ho, whereas it's supposed to be mellow. It's like you're lying on a sunny beach sipping your favorite libation whereas your version is a bit 'I'm getting through this tune!'. Try relaxing and laying back a bit, it might help. It's not really gypsy jazz, it's... well, mellow

Not that you didn't play it well, of course. You did, it's good stuff :-)

Thanks, you're probably right. What I meant though was my playing was a little contrived. I wasn't playing across the bar lines and was just going through the motions to get through it. For me it's one of those tunes you pick up every now and then don't play again for a while. Not my favorite I guess.

[kris]

To be fair to the regular contributors in these virtual jam threads, all of whom I admire and respect, that comment was made in the separate "Red Clay" thread you created in the gear section and was NOT written by one of the regulars in Mr. B's "Red Clay" thread. Frankly, these virtual jam threads are the most "honest" takes you're gonna get in an online forum because people are actually posting their playing for all to hear, warts and all. "Advice," in as much as it's given here, is largely constructive and well-intended. Please, let's not turn these threads into petty pissing contests—that's what the "history" and "politics" threads are for

It is all funny.
To be fair please read posts carefully.I wrote on the forum, not on the JGBE.
Besides, it is about criticism that I do not understand.
There is no criticism at JGBE, only positive comments and that was agreed in advance.
Hope you understand.

[rpjazzguitar]

I think there's value in identifying both positive and negative features of one's playing.

But, in an Internet forum, negativity can be problematic, so I think it's best to stay on the positive features, unless the player specifically requests more, which some do.

In the right context, identifying negatives can be a gift. Most people won't do it. And, some people who will do it, can get excessive. My experience has been that some very negative comments have made a positive impact on my playing (after I was able to see the validity), but also can be hard to take.

I can't say that I got a lot of detailed positive commentary over the years. I mean, people have sometimes been positive, but have rarely broken it down to fine grained details, to the point where I thought, "I'll do more of that, or work to develop that further".

More common is "sounds good" -- and then the phone will either ring or not. The ring, or lack thereof, is the overall rating if you're trying to be a combo musician.

[kris]

Even in a different thread, I thought that was an unusual comment too. I think most jazz musicians understand improvising happens on a continuum or spectrum. On one end, we embellish and elaborate on the melody, the fills begin to eclipse the original tune, the "obligato" becomes "obligatory" as it were... and soon we are still thinking about the melody in our minds but playing something that isn't the melody... maybe follows some of the phrase lengths or rhythmic ideas... but then at the other end, we strip the tune down to its essential harmonic structure and improvise over that, creating melodies and using ideas from many sources. At that end of the spectrum, nobody should expect to "hear the melody" because the improvisation is not directly tied to it any more.

People have their preferences. Some like the embellished melody style; others want the freedom to create within the tunes harmonic structure. But it's all wonderful and genuinely jazz.

I would hope anyone commenting on a clip on this forum would realize that both of those approaches exist and are equally important. The comment on your clip evidently did not understand that, or simply decided the more independent improvisation was not legitimate. That's too bad for him, he missed a chance to learn something about the music.

It is very nice.
We musicians are very sensitive and this often leads to misunderstandings.
Lawson-stone-you are a great person.
Thanks A lot
Jazzingly
Kris

[kris]

Thanks, you're probably right. What I meant though was my playing was a little contrived. I wasn't playing across the bar lines and was just going through the motions to get through it. For me it's one of those tunes you pick up every now and then don't play again for a while. Not my favorite I guess.

You are very good guitar player!

[kris]

I think there's value in identifying both positive and negative features of one's playing.

But, in an Internet forum, negativity can be problematic, so I think it's best to stay on the positive features, unless the player specifically requests more, which some do.

In the right context, identifying negatives can be a gift. Most people won't do it. And, some people who will do it, can get excessive. My experience has been that some very negative comments have made a positive impact on my playing (after I was able to see the validity), but also can be hard to take.

I can't say that I got a lot of detailed positive commentary over the years. I mean, people have sometimes been positive, but have rarely broken it down to fine grained details, to the point where I thought, "I'll do more of that, or work to develop that further".

More common is "sounds good" -- and then the phone will either ring or not. The ring, or lack thereof, is the overall rating if you're trying to be a combo musician.

A few years ago I was at the Mike Stern guitar workshop.
After the lecture there was a short jam with the master.
Jam young participants played at different levels.
All of Mike's comments about the playing of others was very positive..."it was great!"...
It gave Mike the impression that he wanted to encourage everyone to play jazz in the future.
Great Mike, always smiling and positive towards everyone.
Attachment 84194

[rpjazzguitar]

A few years ago I was at the Mike Stern guitar workshop.
After the lecture there was a short jam with the master.
Jam young participants played at different levels.
All of Mike's comments about the playing of others was very positive..."it was great!"...
It gave Mike the impression that he wanted to encourage everyone to play jazz in the future.
Great Mike, always smiling and positive towards everyone.
Attachment 84194

A great musician who had just been brutalized by a bandleader once said to me, plaintively, "We are all musicians at different levels". It was a way of questioning the bandleader's actions, but it also points out that we're all equal in a way.

[kris]

A great musician who had just been brutalized by a bandleader once said to me, plaintively, "We are all musicians at different levels". It was a way of questioning the bandleader's actions, but it also points out that we're all equal in a way.

A dozen or so years ago there was a very famous jazz group in Poland.
The band consisted of outstanding musicians and any of them could be a leader.
Everyone was arguing and criticizing each other.
They played for several years together at various international jazz festivals.
In the end, the band broke up.
Playing with a regular group is a serious challenge.

[kris]

I apologize for yet another posting on this. I continue to try to work out how to play the changes and not just do arpeggios... not sure I succeeded here but I think I'm more comfortable with the song's structure at least.

The picture... it was a HAWT Day in Israel. We'd been excavating on our site since 4:30 AM. The sun was high, it was about 11:30 AM and we had still maybe 2 hours left to dig... it was dry, choking-dusty work. I looked up and saw this van tootling up the tel toward us. They stopped, and opened up their van into a SMOOTHIE BAR. Seriously, ice-cold fruit smoothies... FREE. We all slurped up smoothies with a generous portion of dust and dirt from the tel on our faces, hands, shirts, hair, and in the smoothies, but wow, it was relief! They then just drove off. We had no idea where they came from, who they were, or where they went.

Curious business model...

Your feedback, if you aren't tired of my clips, is welcome.

You play better and better, every note makes sense.I like your sense of rhythm.
Good stuff.

[rpjazzguitar]

I apologize for yet another posting on this. I continue to try to work out how to play the changes and not just do arpeggios... not sure I succeeded here but I think I'm more comfortable with t]

I think the swing feel is a little swingier on this take. A little more Basie-ish, which is a good thing.

I think that scatting a solo with syllables like "hey bop a re bop" might be helpful. Or, if scatting doesn't work, trying to phrase with clave like Jeff suggested. I tried that tonight and I thought it was a great idea. I'd never thought about doing it before, but it worked. My rhythms became sharper and different than usual.

The benefit to scatting, when I do it, is that is connects my fingers to my musical brain a little better. The notes come out with higher consciousness <g>. Meaning, more like a vocal line, better time, rhythms my fingers don't drift to on their own and the sense that I'm playing every note with intention as I try to make melody. This is aspirational, of course. But, when all the planets line up, it's better.

[ragman1]

Thanks, you're probably right. What I meant though was my playing was a little contrived. I wasn't playing across the bar lines and was just going through the motions to get through it. For me it's one of those tunes you pick up every now and then don't play again for a while. Not my favorite I guess.

Mine neither, if the truth be known. Those swing-type descending dominants look easy but they're not. It's hard to make an improvisation sound natural, melodic, and unforced. And, mostly, the person you're telling already knows what he's doing anyway. It's a minefield :-)

[ragman1]

Well, it's the last day so here's the last blast. Nice, sweet, just a little vignette, no blood on the floor :-)

[TOMMO]

Well, it's the last day so here's the last blast. Nice, sweet, just a little vignette, no blood on the floor :-)

You seem to have taken a liking to the tune. Nice melodies!

[ragman1]

Got used to it :-)