JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 32) - In a Mellow Tone

**wzpgsr** · 08-24-2021, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by kris

I wonder how many guitarists from JGBE have attended real jam sessions ...?
There are real emotions and mutual inspiration, and a good audience turns up the atmosphere and motivates the musicians.
Here I miss it and sometimes I have the impression that nothing is happening and I play the same over and over again.

Enjoy it for what it is. No one here is under any illusion that somehow this is a replacement for the real-world interaction between musicians. We are about to enter year three of a global pandemic—opportunities to play with other musicians may be limited.

**rpjazzguitar** · 08-24-2021, 01:59 PM

If we're talking about public jams at a pro or pro/am level, then dozens.

If we're talking about getting together with friends or sitting in with bands, calling tunes on the fly, then hundreds.

But there is a certain type that I haven't enjoyed much. Loud venue, loud house band, a crowd of musicians waiting to play, a rush to plug in (to somebody else's gear) barely time to tune, then call two tunes and hope that the backup players will support what you're trying to do with your solo. Everything loud enough that maybe they can't actually hear you very well. I'm describing a local jam, run by a top pro who is a very considerate host, but it was as I described, at least the times I went.

I've also had some opportunities to jam with pro players (some names you'd know) where they took songs I knew well into dimensions I couldn't follow. Eye/ear opening to be in that, but at times I had to lay out. I thought those were great -- for educational purposes.

Lots of these were head solos head with little creation on the fly. But not all.

**John A.** · 08-24-2021, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by kris

I wonder how many guitarists from JGBE have attended real jam sessions ...?
There are real emotions and mutual inspiration, and a good audience turns up the atmosphere and motivates the musicians.
Here I miss it and sometimes I have the impression that nothing is happening and I play the same over and over again.

I go to jam sessions regularly, especially over the last 5-6 years. There's a weekly session in my neighborhood that even managed to play outside during COVID (in good weather), and is now 2x a week (one indoor and one outdoor). I also have various friends I play with here and there with varying degrees of seriousness. Playing with other people is essential to progressing IMO.

**Peterson** · 08-24-2021, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

Did I catch a Barry Harris 5 phrase in there?

I wouldn’t be surprised

I don’t know the names of them but some stuck in my ears when I watched a video on YouTube a while back.

**lawson-stone** · 08-24-2021, 04:54 PM

For some reason the tune has been tricky for me, which is odd because it's not hard. So much is similar, I find it easy to get mixed up. Anyhow, this is a bit too boomy, but I decided instead of recording direct to run the DVMark Micro 50 to the 10" speaker and mic the speaker. Probably why it's boomy, I need to move the mic.

Tried to relax a bit on this, the title screen being my inspiration for a more relaxed... mellow! take.

Feedback is welcome.

**Victor Saumarez** · 08-24-2021, 07:59 PM

It's an odd tune to play on. I never really felt I cracked it but here's a version recorded a while back.

**gionnio** · 08-24-2021, 09:35 PM

Finally had time to listen to all of the efforts posted here and gotta say Wow!

Lots of great playing all around, and transcribing it should provide a semester's worth of quality education.

Keep 'em coming!

**kris** · 08-24-2021, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

If we're talking about public jams at a pro or pro/am level, then dozens.

If we're talking about getting together with friends or sitting in with bands, calling tunes on the fly, then hundreds.

But there is a certain type that I haven't enjoyed much. Loud venue, loud house band, a crowd of musicians waiting to play, a rush to plug in (to somebody else's gear) barely time to tune, then call two tunes and hope that the backup players will support what you're trying to do with your solo. Everything loud enough that maybe they can't actually hear you very well. I'm describing a local jam, run by a top pro who is a very considerate host, but it was as I described, at least the times I went.

I've also had some opportunities to jam with pro players (some names you'd know) where they took songs I knew well into dimensions I couldn't follow. Eye/ear opening to be in that, but at times I had to lay out. I thought those were great -- for educational purposes.

Lots of these were head solos head with little creation on the fly. But not all.

Just as the concerts are different, the jams are also different.All the musicians who travel play in different venues and gather experience.Jams can lead to a mess, so someone has to figure it out-Boss of the club or band leader.
I played a few hundred jams and it was OK.It also happened that the musicians wanted to play solos and they did not work out.This is the charm of jams - anything can happen.Jam can be good or bad - just like a concert.

**kris** · 08-24-2021, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I did play solos in those sessions. Did my best, anyhow. Obviously not up to your standard, but I played heads, played solos, traded fours, and from time to time did a completely solo guitar number. The nice thing about a small town situation is nobody was comparing me to any other guitarist, we were all amateur players (except for the bass-piano-drums) and so we all took chances and had fun.

Fun. Remember that part?

I understand.
Everyone wants to have fun .

**kris** · 08-24-2021, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

I go to jam sessions regularly, especially over the last 5-6 years. There's a weekly session in my neighborhood that even managed to play outside during COVID (in good weather), and is now 2x a week (one indoor and one outdoor). I also have various friends I play with here and there with varying degrees of seriousness. Playing with other people is essential to progressing IMO.

I like this.

**TOMMO** · 08-25-2021, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

For some reason the tune has been tricky for me, which is odd because it's not hard. So much is similar, I find it easy to get mixed up. Anyhow, this is a bit too boomy, but I decided instead of recording direct to run the DVMark Micro 50 to the 10" speaker and mic the speaker. Probably why it's boomy, I need to move the mic.

Tried to relax a bit on this, the title screen being my inspiration for a more relaxed... mellow! take.

Feedback is welcome.

Very relaxed and laid back, lawson!

Originally Posted by Victor Saumarez

It's an odd tune to play on. I never really felt I cracked it but here's a version recorded a while back.

Superb!

**kris** · 08-25-2021, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

For some reason the tune has been tricky for me, which is odd because it's not hard. So much is similar, I find it easy to get mixed up. Anyhow, this is a bit too boomy, but I decided instead of recording direct to run the DVMark Micro 50 to the 10" speaker and mic the speaker. Probably why it's boomy, I need to move the mic.

Tried to relax a bit on this, the title screen being my inspiration for a more relaxed... mellow! take.

Feedback is welcome.

The sound is very good and playing is very nice.
I like the feel and the fat sound of your L5.

**ragman1** · 08-25-2021, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by Victor Saumarez

It's an odd tune to play on. I never really felt I cracked it

May I try to be constructively critical? I think one reason you feel that you haven't cracked it is that you're probably playing it with the wrong feel. Your version is jaunty, lots of gung-ho, whereas it's supposed to be mellow. It's like you're lying on a sunny beach sipping your favorite libation whereas your version is a bit 'I'm getting through this tune!'. Try relaxing and laying back a bit, it might help. It's not really gypsy jazz, it's... well, mellow

Not that you didn't play it well, of course. You did, it's good stuff :-)

**kris** · 08-25-2021, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by Victor Saumarez

It's an odd tune to play on. I never really felt I cracked it but here's a version recorded a while back.

Your solo on acoustic guitar is great!
Each note is played clean and with a very good feeling.
You have a very good sense of rhythm and you build interesting melodies.
Brilliant technique.

**kris** · 08-25-2021, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

May I try to be constructively critical? I think one reason you feel that you haven't cracked it is that you're probably playing it with the wrong feel. Your version is jaunty, lots of gung-ho, whereas it's supposed to be mellow. It's like you're lying on a sunny beach sipping your favorite libation whereas your version is a bit 'I'm getting through this tune!'. Try relaxing and laying back a bit, it might help. It's not really gypsy jazz, it's... well, mellow

Not that you didn't play it well, of course. You did, it's good stuff :-)

Ragman,
You write so that you don't know what's going on.
You should be a critic.

Here we evaluate the improvisations of individual performances.

**lawson-stone** · 08-25-2021, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by kris

The sound is very good and playing is very nice.
I like the feel and the fat sound of your L5.

Thanks. This tune is very tricky for me and I am not sure why. I keep missing that Db Gb7 and then the Db7 D dim.

**lawson-stone** · 08-25-2021, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by kris

I understand.
Everyone wants to have fun .

I think by "fun" I probably meant something more substantive, like "joy." There is great joy in playing this music, even at a very simple level. There is also joy in mastering a very difficult piece, or moving to a more challenging tempo.

You rightly also remind us that there is joy in communicating among a group of musicians, and connecting with an audience. I haven't played for audiences in a very long time, and I think my skills have declined, even though I spend a lot of time on the instrument. That year of playing with a "house" band locally brought my skills to a high point, and I spent 3 years playing with a local jazz ensemble that brought my chart reading skills way up, but when those stopped, I think I lost something of the "in the moment" sense of jazz.

I'm trying to think of how to get that back in a community where there are not many opportunities to play for others. It's one reason I post a lot here, it's my only real outlet for playing for others.

Good reflections and reminders about what this is really about: music in connection with other players and the audience.

**lawson-stone** · 08-25-2021, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

May I try to be constructively critical? I think one reason you feel that you haven't cracked it is that you're probably playing it with the wrong feel. Your version is jaunty, lots of gung-ho, whereas it's supposed to be mellow. It's like you're lying on a sunny beach sipping your favorite libation whereas your version is a bit 'I'm getting through this tune!'. Try relaxing and laying back a bit, it might help. It's not really gypsy jazz, it's... well, mellow

Not that you didn't play it well, of course. You did, it's good stuff :-)

Actually both Duke Ellington and Count Basie's recordings of these tunes clock out at 160+ bpm. It' pretty brisk.

**ragman1** · 08-25-2021, 10:12 AM

Both the Basie and Ellington recorded versions on YT come in at about 135, tested with a click track. Unhurried laid back swing. The Basie one is marginally faster, but only just. Victor's has quite a different feel. Play a snippet of them one after the other.

**lawson-stone** · 08-25-2021, 10:50 AM

Here's Duke Ellington, clocking at least 160:

Here's the Basie band, it's about 150-160 (Correction, it looks closer to 140-145, so slower, but this is still not lying on the beach mellow)

**lawson-stone** · 08-25-2021, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Both the Basie and Ellington recorded versions on YT come in at about 135, tested with a click track. Unhurried laid back swing. The Basie one is marginally faster, but only just. Victor's has quite a different feel. Play a snippet of them one after the other.

My metronome has this about 160.

**ragman1** · 08-25-2021, 11:52 AM

Quite right, I was rushing it, it's 160. But the point about styles still stands. There has to be a reason why he feels he can't crack it. Maybe it's too fast for him. Or, as I'm trying to suggest, it's a style clash. Not that there's anything wrong with trying it in different styles but it might lose the crux of the tune.

**Reg** · 08-25-2021, 12:15 PM

Rag... your definitely in a different works. All the takes are cool... even yours. There are differences between what some say and what they play. Victors take was great, worth listening to. His comments are with a perspective...

Amateurs, which most are, perspective is that the take wasn't the best or what I really was hoping for... I can do better.

pros, myself included...are at a point that.... my worst take is still more than good enough. My level of playing is what I play the 1st time I see something.

**kris** · 08-25-2021, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Both the Basie and Ellington recorded versions on YT come in at about 135, tested with a click track. Unhurried laid back swing. The Basie one is marginally faster, but only just. Victor's has quite a different feel. Play a snippet of them one after the other.

Sorry,
Basie play piano intro at 165...
This is an accurate computer measurement. There is a measurement function in Transcribe.

**kris** · 08-25-2021, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Reg

Rag... your definitely in a different works. All the takes are cool... even yours. There are differences between what some say and what they play. Victors take was great, worth listening to. His comments are with a perspective...

Amateurs, which most are, perspective is that the take wasn't the best or what I really was hoping for... I can do better.

pros, myself included...are at a point that.... my worst take is still more than good enough. My level of playing is what I play the 1st time I see something.

I have to admit that sometimes the opinions about playing here in the forum are at least strange.
I don't know why this is ...
For example, this is about my recording of "Red Clay":
"In your recording, I hate to be critical, but, I don't hear the melody and the whole thing sounds like a soupy mix of notes and chords. How can you call it "Red Clay" ? I just don't hear it. I hear a ton of piano though. Sorry my friend."