JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 31) - Road Song

**kris** · 08-18-2021, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

26-2 is waaaay harder, in my opinion.

A big challenge for people who do not have time to exercise.

**kris** · 08-18-2021, 12:08 PM

The whole list is great!

**John A.** · 08-18-2021, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Hey I have heard that 26-2 is actually a better place to dive in for learning Coltrane harmony. Is that true? I’ve never once jumped into his stuff and was wondering how one might attempt a gentle entry.

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I find it harder. I actually find Giant Steps to be the easiest of the "Coltrane Changes" tunes. But the only way to know is to try.

**TOMMO** · 08-18-2021, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz

That put a big smile on my face!

**lawson-stone** · 08-18-2021, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

26-2 is waaaay harder, in my opinion.

I think I just illustrated my more or less complete ignorance of Coltrane's most distinctive work. Maybe I need to call Giant Steps just so I learn it.

**lawson-stone** · 08-18-2021, 06:00 PM

So this is my last shot on this tune. I'm taking very seriously you guys' suggesting I lay off the books and just try to play my own ideas... again, I'm trying to avoid pentatonic boxes and blues licks.

The interesting thing is, sure, I manage to play it without those things; but is this still the spirit of this tune? I need to go back and listen to Wes again. I bet he doesn't lean on the blues and pentatonic boxes, but I think my soloing on this sounds a bit... academic?

Your feedback is appreciated, and I know I have been over-posting on this; but then you haven't had to listen to my stuff on a bunch of prior tunes, so I'm making up for lost time!

**John A.** · 08-18-2021, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

So this is my last shot on this tune. I'm taking very seriously you guys' suggesting I lay off the books and just try to play my own ideas... again, I'm trying to avoid pentatonic boxes and blues licks.

The interesting thing is, sure, I manage to play it without those things; but is this still the spirit of this tune? I need to go back and listen to Wes again. I bet he doesn't lean on the blues and pentatonic boxes, but I think my soloing on this sounds a bit... academic?

Your feedback is appreciated, and I know I have been over-posting on this; but then you haven't had to listen to my stuff on a bunch of prior tunes, so I'm making up for lost time!

I think that's well with the spirit of the tune. There are two pretty distinct Wes versions - the one on his Road Song album, which is heavily orchestrated and more pop sounding, and the one on The Further Adventures of Jimmy and Wes album, which is more straightahead (and is called OGD instead of Road Song).

On the OGD version, he actually does some similar things to what you do there, but mixes it up with bluesy licks and burning on 16ths. That's his style in a nutshell - not "leaning on" blues, but referring to it often and in a way that blends well with ideas from other bags.

**wzpgsr** · 08-18-2021, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

So this is my last shot on this tune. I'm taking very seriously you guys' suggesting I lay off the books and just try to play my own ideas... again, I'm trying to avoid pentatonic boxes and blues licks.

The interesting thing is, sure, I manage to play it without those things; but is this still the spirit of this tune? I need to go back and listen to Wes again. I bet he doesn't lean on the blues and pentatonic boxes, but I think my soloing on this sounds a bit... academic?

Your feedback is appreciated, and I know I have been over-posting on this; but then you haven't had to listen to my stuff on a bunch of prior tunes, so I'm making up for lost time!

Man...your time has improved in a major way. Feel good about what you've accomplished this summer.

Something to appreciate about pentatonic scales that occurred to me while listening to this take, Lawson, is that they come with a couple of third-interval leaps built-in. Minor pentatonic has the 1, b3, 4, 5, b7. So you get two little "arpeggio fragments"—1 and b3, 5 and b7—mixed in with scale steps. This is interesting, too: there are no half-step intervals in the minor pentatonic scale, so they don't sound quite so....scaly. Although we maybe all get bored with pentatonic licks, they slot in so perfectly when used well, and I wonder if this isn't because of these wider interval leaps. I hear larger interval leaps all the time in Wes's playing—superimposed triads, arpeggios, etc. are a huge part of his sound. I am wondering if, when you (we) are purposely avoiding pentatonic, you (we) might mess around and try to find some other "structures" of larger interval leaps that sound good to avoid sounding too scalar.

**wzpgsr** · 08-18-2021, 10:45 PM

Didn't get around to recording another take as I planned this week, but here's another chorus from earlier in the week:

**rpjazzguitar** · 08-19-2021, 01:24 AM

Wes never sounds fast -- until you try to play his stuff.

**kris** · 08-19-2021, 01:27 AM

Grear version of Pat Martino.There are a lot of great Pat Martino lines.I analyzed this solo a few years ago.

**kris** · 08-19-2021, 05:18 AM

This is my recording of Road Song.I mainly concentrated on the correct phrasing, articulation and music. I practically did not think about scales at all ... I played what I heard internally.
Hope You like it:
Box

**lawson-stone** · 08-19-2021, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

Man...your time has improved in a major way. Feel good about what you've accomplished this summer.

Something to appreciate about pentatonic scales that occurred to me while listening to this take, Lawson, is that they come with a couple of third-interval leaps built-in. Minor pentatonic has the 1, b3, 4, 5, b7. So you get two little "arpeggio fragments"—1 and b3, 5 and b7—mixed in with scale steps. This is interesting, too: there are no half-step intervals in the minor pentatonic scale, so they don't sound quite so....scaly. Although we maybe all get bored with pentatonic licks, they slot in so perfectly when used well, and I wonder if this isn't because of these wider interval leaps. I hear larger interval leaps all the time in Wes's playing—superimposed triads, arpeggios, etc. are a huge part of his sound. I am wondering if, when you (we) are purposely avoiding pentatonic, you (we) might mess around and try to find some other "structures" of larger interval leaps that sound good to avoid sounding too scalar.

Thanks! I’ve definitely felt more at ease in the time, though clearly still much to be done.

I totally agree on the pentatonic and blues-avoiding them in these clips was merely a learning exercise I was attempting, to break out of some finger-movement habits and auto-pilot riffs. I did listen to Wes’ take with the OGD ensemble that John A. Noted above and was most encouraged that a lot of his ideas sound like what I was reaching for.

I guess I ought to try a take bringing the blues/pentatonic stuff back in for a balanced approach.

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**ragman1** · 08-19-2021, 08:27 AM

This can be the last blast. I made my own backing track using Improvisor and it works fine. There's nothing particularly spectacular here. There were a couple of tricks I was meaning to use and completely forgot them in the heat of the moment, as you do. But it's good enough as a version. I found the way to spice up the Gm pentatonic, apart from the blue note, was to include the 9th (A). Just that one note makes a lot of difference.

By the way, wzpgsr, I liked what you were doing on your vid. Had that 'flat delivery' jazz feel to it. Interesting.

**Triple_Jazz** · 08-19-2021, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Choose the one you feel is right. We know you can do it!

Well then, I believe Moment’s Notice would be the perfect choice

**wzpgsr** · 08-19-2021, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by kris

This is my recording of Road Song.I mainly concentrated on the correct phrasing, articulation and music. I practically did not think about scales at all ... I played what I heard internally.
Hope You like it:
Box

That was excellent.

**Triple_Jazz** · 08-19-2021, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar;[URL="tel:1141146"

1141146[/URL]]

Wes never sounds fast -- until you try to play his stuff.

Really nice take!!!

**TOMMO** · 08-19-2021, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

This can be the last blast. I made my own backing track using Improvisor and it works fine. There's nothing particularly spectacular here. There were a couple of tricks I was meaning to use and completely forgot them in the heat of the moment, as you do. But it's good enough as a version. I found the way to spice up the Gm pentatonic, apart from the blue note, was to include the 9th (A). Just that one note makes a lot of difference.

By the way, wzpgsr, I liked what you were doing on your vid. Had that 'flat delivery' jazz feel to it. Interesting.

Very nice rags!

**lawson-stone** · 08-19-2021, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

Wes never sounds fast -- until you try to play his stuff.

I really liked this clip. Ideas, flow, all of it really spoke to me.

**lawson-stone** · 08-19-2021, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

Didn't get around to recording another take as I planned this week, but here's another chorus from earlier in the week:

You did here exactly what you were talking about-not really leaning on the pentatonic or blues ideas, but using them at key points. This take was the kind of solo I am hoping to be able to play.

**lawson-stone** · 08-19-2021, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by kris

This is my recording of Road Song.I mainly concentrated on the correct phrasing, articulation and music. I practically did not think about scales at all ... I played what I heard internally.
Hope You like it:
Box

The solo has really strong "ideas" and phrasing. I like the use of chords to accentuate certain parts. The chromaticism works really well. Nothing sounds (to me) cliched or automatic. This captures a lot of how I'd like to be able to play over these changes.

**lawson-stone** · 08-19-2021, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz

Well then, I believe Moment’s Notice would be the perfect choice

Wow. That would be a really challenging one but worth the effort.

**ragman1** · 08-19-2021, 12:26 PM

Moment's Notice

Pah, just Cm :-)

joke

**rpjazzguitar** · 08-20-2021, 04:45 PM

I'm quite late to the party on this one, but I finally had a chance to listen to everybody's takes.

John A. great execution on the octaves, great time and tone. It sounded a lot like Wes, which I thought required an L5, but that's not what you were playing was it? I thought the chord stabs, here and there, sounded great to.

MrB. The double time continues to impress. I keep trying to do it. As always, classic jazz feel.

Triple. Splayed right hand and great tone. Coincidence? I especially like the octave section around 2:00 in.

Ron. The Guild sounds nice. Liked the lines, and especially a quick bit of double time that worked great. Melodic too.

Lawson. Nice fee, I like the edge to the tone. I'm partial to use of vibrato and other ways to make a note speak. So I liked that. Lines were good and I especially like how you navigated the bridge.

WZ Second A and bridge were my favorite parts for the melodicism.

Rag - as always a very distinctive and appealing sound from the flattop. When you play it always sounds like every note is a conscious choice and is melodic.

Peterson - distinctive time feel. I like the melody esp. in the 2nd chorus and I like your use of space

Tommo - Nice transition to faster passage for the bridge and nice use of higher pitched notes. I always think doing that adds intensity.

**kris** · 08-21-2021, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

I'm quite late to the party on this one, but I finally had a chance to listen to everybody's takes.

John A. great execution on the octaves, great time and tone. It sounded a lot like Wes, which I thought required an L5, but that's not what you were playing was it? I thought the chord stabs, here and there, sounded great to.

MrB. The double time continues to impress. I keep trying to do it. As always, classic jazz feel.

Triple. Splayed right hand and great tone. Coincidence? I especially like the octave section around 2:00 in.

Ron. The Guild sounds nice. Liked the lines, and especially a quick bit of double time that worked great. Melodic too.

Lawson. Nice fee, I like the edge to the tone. I'm partial to use of vibrato and other ways to make a note speak. So I liked that. Lines were good and I especially like how you navigated the bridge.

WZ Second A and bridge were my favorite parts for the melodicism.

Rag - as always a very distinctive and appealing sound from the flattop. When you play it always sounds like every note is a conscious choice and is melodic.

Peterson - distinctive time feel. I like the melody esp. in the 2nd chorus and I like your use of space

Tommo - Nice transition to faster passage for the bridge and nice use of higher pitched notes. I always think doing that adds intensity.

"I'm quite late to the party on this one, but I finally had a chance to listen to everybody's takes."
You missed my take...post #87
But it is OK.