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Originally Posted by John A.
On the second general remark about more blues/rock, I actually disagree. Our modern music scene is flooded with rock and rock-ish stylings. Almost every tune we've done in this group has featured examples of a more rock oriented style. I actually came into jazz as a kind of flight from rock. I want to make the changes, I want to play a more bop type of style. You pull it off very well, but I think that falling back into the cliches and licks of rock playing, or the "shredding" of fast-for-fast-sake rock scales, will not help us get better as jazz players.
Just my unsolicited opinion! ;-)
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08-17-2021 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
That leaves the field more open to the other elements of musicianship. A lot of us have those elements of musicianship and guitar playing down in simpler genres. This is an opportunity to draw on that because figuring out what notes to play doesn't require as much effort.Last edited by John A.; 08-17-2021 at 03:34 PM.
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Originally Posted by John A.
I really appreciate your playing and your ability to explain what you're doing without the explanation taking longer than the playing!
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Well, I could keep quiet but I don't think I will. Speak your truth without fear, someone said.
Personally, my skills have gone down since I started here. Virtually every single tune has not been what I'd call jazz. The songs may have been recorded by jazz artists bit it's not really jazz. Any bunch of tunes that only demand rock-like pentatonic and blues treatments is a far cry from the subtleties of what I think of as jazz.
Most of the tunes aren't really guitar-based anyway, they're band stuff, crowd-pleasers. Not an attentive, discerning crowd, but a bunch of cheering foot-tappers out for a good time. It's sort of dumbed-down rock festival stuff.
I'm still waiting for someone to post a real jazz tune that demands some thinking about. That's the real problem, you know, churning out pent-blues is not learning anything. I've already tried some interesting stuff over the changes to RS but they don't work. Only the pent/blues stuff works. So, yawn, churn it out and kid myself I'm a real jazzer!
(I expect to be told that if I don't like it, go away, but that completely avoids the issue).
What's wrong with this? It's attributed to Miles (you can never be quite sure with him) and composed in 1954 (post 1940 per instructions). But wait, all is not lost! It's considered by many to be a blues. Fair compromise.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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And I will also say something else. This morning was the worst because the place felt dead. Since posting that last one, I felt energised, cracking jokes to people, and all that. But this morning I felt dead.
There are some bright people here. I can't be the only one who felt that we were being reduced to a low common denominator of mere enjoyment without a lot of thought.
I suppose I ought to apologise... but.. who gives a damn.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
I can't say my chops have suffered; in fact, I've had a lot of fun with "Road Song" spending about 45 minutes every day just jamming on it, working on "my stuff." Not much to write home about there, but I've enjoyed it and my handful of lame licks at least gives me a chance to work on time and groove.
I have appreciated the conversation about the tunes, even the ones I haven't played. I've listened to most of the takes and been challenged by many of them.
But the main point you made, that these aren't "jazz" properly so-called, I think I share that feeling, fully recognizing nobody appointed me the Curator of Jazz Authenticity or anything.
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Originally Posted by ragman1Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Originally Posted by John A.
I haven't called a tune because I'd end up calling something I can't play, and can't learn in just a week. The stuff I want to learn, and my own life limits, can't be learned in a week.
No hard feelings on my part, I was just agreeing with Rag's observation, thought i don't share his discontent with it.
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SO pursuant to the little discussion we've had this evening (Eastern USA time that is) I thought I'd try a whirl of "Road Song" and do my best for one chorus to use no Pentatonic patterns or blues scales/licks. Obviously there are overlaps between Pentatonics and arpeggios and full scales, but this was actually a very helpful exercise.
I set it up by playing the head up high, and using a bunch of corny blues ideas to embellish the melody... but I promise, after that, I try to keep it no-blues and no Pentatonics... I'm not sure about the outcome, though. I look forward to any reaction short of projectile vomiting.
The wheels get off the road a little in the last A-section of the improvised chorus and it doesn't even sound "out" it just sounds... wrong... but I finish okay.
Also: Loving the Fender Princeton Reverb Re-Issue with the 12" speaker. Just sayin'
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I don’t share the intensity of rag’s sentiment, but I kind of see where he’s coming from. Then again, if it’s not at least winking or hinting at blues in some way, is it really jazz?
Even the “simplest” tunes we’ve played have given me a workout and I have learned a ton about learning, internalizing, and playing changes in these several months. When we first started out I was drilling changes for several practice sessions at like 70 bpm before recording my takes. In recent weeks I have tended to throw caution to the wind—maybe that’s because the tunes have gotten more bluesy recently—I’m not sure what or how I’d do with a tune like Dolphin Dance now.
I’ll say this though: if a tune isn’t challenging enough for ya, feel free to reharmonize it or whatever you need to do to make it more interesting and challenging to play. That’s what Charlie Parker did and it seemed to work for him.
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I finally had some time to listen to several takes.
Jeff, fun to hear you burn on this one. Nice fast runs and energy, great phrasing as we know you can deliver so well!
John, I love the wild and loose approach. Nice slurs and legato stuff!
Triplejazz, I can hear you searching for the good notes and I dig that! Taking chances, improvising!
Lawson, great tone and I liked the 2nd version with more improv. All sounded good to me!
Tommo, you have some nice melodic and harmonic stuff happening in a few spots that I didn't hear elsewhere! Nice!
Wzpgsr, love your tone. You are once again giving me GAS to a get a Charlie Christian type neck pickup. Sound is so good, and nice lines!
Nice to hear some new people like Peterson, cool take on the acoustic.
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Jazz isn't a what, its a how...
I mean, we had complaints about Wayne Shorter and Herbie and Kenny Barron tunes, now complaints about hard bop...not jazz? Yikes. So what is jazz, then? The whole point of this "jam" was to get out of the GASB and play real jam tunes written by jazz artists...im not sure what people want, but im not calling "All the Things You Are" here...thats stepping on the much longer running Practical Standards thread's toes...
I really did want more people to call tunes. But what we are experiencing now is something that happens at real jams-- folks calling get on a "kick," calling tunes in a similar vein, piggybacking on each other...and we've definitely been experiencing the summer of hard bop.
So I get maybe folks are tiring of the bluesy stuff a bit...but I'd also say blues is a very integral part of jazz, and if you get into bebop and beyond where players were getting away from standards and such, there's a lot of blues...why? Because jazz is black music. And jazz guitar, as it exists today, is pretty damn white. So I will freely admit, one of my intentions in this jam was to call tunes by black artists and very specifically NOT guitar players, because I think they get glossed over a bit on this whole page, and I think a lot of the "jazz guitar world" is an insular little subset that doesn't really reflect what jazz actually is.
So yeah...somebody should call Solar soon. Its a good one, and very much a jam session tune, and you can play bluesy on it too
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The songs for JGBE are perfectly selected and are a kind of challenge for guitarists.
By the way, Solar has the form of a 12-bar blues.
Jazz or not jazz?
It may happen that there may not be 'jazz' in the so-called jazz / ex. Jazz standard /. ... and vice versa, there can be more "jazz" in a properly arranged pop song.
Everything is in the hands of the performer.
Jazz is open music and everyone can express themselves in the jazz language.
Jazz language is the key to playing jazz.
Is it possible to play jazz without using the jazz language?
You have to develop your jazz language all the time. Then it will be much easier to overcome the problems of songs on JGBE.
I think Reg would have the most say on this topic.
All The Best
Kris
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John -
Some Skunk Funk
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Originally Posted by Ronstuff
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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I think this is a healthy discussion here. While Rag may be right about the last 7 or so tunes, he’s wrong about the list as a whole. Nica’s Dream, in your own sweet way, along came Betty as examples. The other thing is I personally love how expertly a jazz musician slips in and out of the blues. It’s a drag to hear blues line after blues lines on some tunes but take a song like Dolphin Dance, it doesn’t exactly lend itself to all blues licks but when they pop out at the right time they are delicious.
I have the next tune. I had a specific tune in mind because it’s one I want to work on and have trouble making sound good. It’s a Duke Ellington song, how do we feel about his reperatoire? I’ll leave it here for everyone, would you like something classic like Duke, or a real challenge, something that gets called at a jam session of real monster players
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Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz
As for jam tunes: I've never been to a jam since there is no such thing as a jazz scene around here so no jams either. I guess that it wouldn't be all less known / challenging tunes that would leave newcomers in the dust but at least a mix with a good amount of well known tunes thrown in.
Since this is not a group of "monster players" it doesn't make sense to call "Giant Steps" or the like but rather see what everybody would be playing over "Blue Bossa"....
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Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz
Originally Posted by TOMMO
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Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz
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Originally Posted by John A.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by wzpgsr
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz
Nica’s Dream, in your own sweet way, along came Betty as examples. The other thing is I personally love how expertly a jazz musician slips in and out of the blues. It’s a drag to hear blues line after blues lines on some tunes but take a song like Dolphin Dance, it doesn’t exactly lend itself to all blues licks but when they pop out at the right time they are delicious
I have the next tune. I had a specific tune in mind because it’s one I want to work on and have trouble making sound good. It’s a Duke Ellington song, how do we feel about his repertoire? I’ll leave it here for everyone, would you like something classic like Duke, or a real challenge, something that gets called at a jam session of real monster players
26-2 we is far too old now for dat stuff
Has anyone played or had a Supro Amulet ?
Today, 04:44 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos