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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Made a return Voyage. I run out of ideas on this one...more work to do...
    You oviously had fun with this one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronstuff
    Gave it another shot. I'm starting to know the tune more and wanted to float through it a little better.
    Another very fine take!

    I can't find a proper backing track for this one - the two I spotted on yt are pretty lame. I probably have to fire up BiaB and see what I can come with myself....

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

    There is probably a way to think about the F#m69 which avoids that half-step higher cliche. Ideas?
    I'm not sure what you mean by a cliché. There's no real way to avoid that move from Fm to F#m. It needn't be an obvious repetition of the same notes unless it's a repeated rhythm pattern - but the whole impact of that depends on repetition.

    One could play, say, a pentatonic followed by a mel min line. Or two mel mins, and so on, but there's nothing wrong with displaying the shift itself. If you listen to the recording, both Barron and Getz play that in various ways.
    Last edited by ragman1; 07-11-2021 at 11:21 AM.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    There is probably a way to think about the F#m69 which avoids that half-step higher cliche. Ideas?
    Miles did a neat thing on some versions of So What where he played a phrase starting on the minor 3rd note, then when the chord went up a semitone, he started a phrase from the same note (which was now the 9th). Helps to avoid that ‘same thing, up a semitone’ sound.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Miles did a neat thing on some versions of So What where he played a phrase starting on the minor 3rd note, then when the chord went up a semitone, he started a phrase from the same note (which was now the 9th). Helps to avoid that ‘same thing, up a semitone’ sound.
    Thinking about this, I don’t think there are many notes where you could do this very effectively, at least without it sounding a bit odd. The other one I can think of would be to start on the 7th, then use the same note again (as the 6th) when the chord goes up.

  6. #30

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    I was shedding the tune last night and the way I’ve been handling the half step shift is to purposefully finish the last bar with a descending line and then shift into the F# on an ascending line. It’s a cool sound and avoids the “riff in F, now riff in F#” trap you are talking about. I’m going to listen to my takes this morning and post one today.

  7. #31

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    Yes, the obvious way is to use common notes and/or to play lines in opposite directions. Also, I was thinking, to leave gaps followed by continuous lines for the next few chords. Lots of bar hopping.

    Looking at the Barron transcription, I should think he explored just about every option possible! And it is frighteningly good.


  8. #32

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    Incidentally, Getz got round it (if that was his idea) by doing the gap thing.




  9. #33

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    Making sure the line against the F# is a continuation of the line against the F -- being careful not to jump back to the beginning -- is one thing I heard in those clips (and thanks for providing them). Resting during the F# bar and then playing some pickup notes into F7b9 worked well too.

    Emphasizes the importance of being able to start your line at any arbitrary point in the middle of you pattern/scale/arp. For the way I do it, based on instantly knowing the chord tones, I got hung up. I didn't know the notes of F#m69 instantaneously. I had to think long enough to figure out the notes or suggest a substitute to myself -- like rootless B13 or F#melmin. If I had it all down pat, it wouldn't be difficult to start a line on Fm and finish the same line on F#m. So, in working on the tune, I have to make sure I've got that chord under my fingers - by note name.

    Half step chord movement occurs in some jazz standards and is worth spending some time on.

  10. #34

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    Here we go ... I spent some time learning this yesterday, and actually recorded a couple of takes late last night, but they really didn't do anything so a canned them. Tried again this afternoon, and did a few more. The first was the best (or least sucky, anyway), so here it is. I don't know about you guys, but I feel like this is one of those tunes where playing with backing tracks is nothing but frustration. I need human interaction for this kind of tune. I took a quick listen to all of yours, but let me go back and spend some more time with them before commenting.


  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Here we go ... I spent some time learning this yesterday, and actually recorded a couple of takes late last night, but they really didn't do anything so a canned them. Tried again this afternoon, and did a few more. The first was the best (or least sucky, anyway), so here it is. I don't know about you guys, but I feel like this is one of those tunes where playing with backing tracks is nothing but frustration. I need human interaction for this kind of tune. I took a quick listen to all of yours, but let me go back and spend some more time with them before commenting.

    Good tone. Excellent articulation of the individual notes. Nice use of minor harmony -- there are some lines there I'll lift when I get home later. Also, nice backsplash. We went with subway tile with similar cabinets, but I like yours better.

  12. #36

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    Late night noodle. I have to say I never thought about the Fm-F#m thing, just did it because it's part of the tune. Easier that way.


  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Good tone. Excellent articulation of the individual notes. Nice use of minor harmony -- there are some lines there I'll lift when I get home later. Also, nice backsplash. We went with subway tile with similar cabinets, but I like yours better.
    Thanks. The cabinets are what came with the apartment, but my wife added the backsplash. I agree with you about it being difficult to build melodies over this harmony. To me, it has a bit of the quality of an exercise, and it's mainly about making the changes at tempo (or in my case, somewhat eliding them). Anyway, yours sounds fine. Time, tone, and making the changes are all good.

    Jeff: both versions are cool. But that thing you did around the 1 minute mark in the second was great.

    Ron: the second seems to have solved the "how do I build a melody against these farkakte changes?" quite well. Great flow of ideas, and that Guild really sounds good.

    Wzpgsr: nicely done. I like that you comped for a chorus, too.

    Rag: Bossa sounds great. But when you go to a jam, how do you pull this off? Shoot hypno-rays from your eyes to slow everybody down and play a bossa? Or do they just know to do it when you step up?

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by john a.
    farkakte changes

    lol!

  15. #39

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    John -

    I don't go to jams. What am I, dumb?

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    John -

    I don't go to jams. What am I, dumb?
    I don't think I'm smart enough to answer that.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Miles did a neat thing on some versions of So What where he played a phrase starting on the minor 3rd note, then when the chord went up a semitone, he started a phrase from the same note (which was now the 9th). Helps to avoid that ‘same thing, up a semitone’ sound.
    Curious, this post just made me realize that I did that very thing in the So What jam. Not at all planned.

    Anyway, back to work, very busy at the moment.

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    I don't think I'm smart enough to answer that.
    OK, I will, then. I went to one once and it was dreadful. They might walk in, chests swelling with pride, showing off their expensive Gibsons, and play not very clever stuff. But having a lovely time, I'm sure.

    I preferred to go to clubs with good players because you can learn by watching. If you're lucky you might also be able to talk to them later, depending on their mood :-)

    These days, there are all the You Tube vids so you don't have to travel and pay for seats and drinks. But, to be honest, even that has limitations because there's only so much you can pick up watching others do it.

    Far better to stay home and work it all out yourself. Unless you just want a happy night out, of course.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    ...how do you pull this off? Shoot hypno-rays from your eyes to slow everybody down,,,
    Hypnotic Rays from the eyes are under-rated.


    ...

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    ...Far better to stay home and work it all out yourself...
    Indubitably! The musical journey is a solo trip. When not alone, you can't experience surroundings as deeply or as profoundly. A musical instrument is often best studied far from the maddening crowd. Recording technology freed us, allowing us to play with the very best, of all time.

    The "jam" is another scene altogether. It's a social thing. And you know that most people no longer have human qualities like manners, morals, breeding, cooperation, restraint or even common interests. It's no wonder that most successful acts are driven by a single artist who pays sidemen.


    ...

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    Hypnotic Rays from the eyes are under-rated.


    ...
    You'll get no argument from me about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    Indubitably! The musical journey is a solo trip. When not alone, you can't experience surroundings as deeply or as profoundly. A musical instrument is often best studied far from the maddening crowd. Recording technology freed us, allowing us to play with the very best, of all time.

    The "jam" is another scene altogether. It's a social thing. And you know that most people no longer have human qualities like manners, morals, breeding, cooperation, restraint or even common interests. It's no wonder that most successful acts are driven by a single artist who pays sidemen.


    ...
    I would say "you need to get out more," but that probably wouldn't work out so well ... I think I'll go burn my copy of Mr. Sammler's Planet and drink some Brawndo, then show up at a jam session and fling poo at my fellow subhumans.

  22. #46

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    Jeff, if this was the 1960s you would not be short of work as a reliable session guy, I think. Always in the groove, always pertinent. I'm gonna bet you had the lines for the second take going round in your head and just had to get them down.

    Nice flow Ronstuff.

    Nice tone wzpgsr. Wondering if that's a vintage vibe pup on your archtop.

    Wow John A, you played an open string! I think there's quite a lot of humour in your playing.


    Just an observation: I think the niggling in one or two posts here may put some folks off.

  23. #47

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    I had to wrestle this one a couple days but here’s my contribution. I really love the head in the A section!


  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    I would say "you need to get out more," but that probably wouldn't work out so well ... I think I'll go burn my copy of Mr. Sammler's Planet and drink some Brawndo, then show up at a jam session and fling poo at my fellow subhumans.
    I would say that I've been out enough. Full career and family life here.
    But once you've retired, and you're picking out a deathbed at IKEA, you may regret all your chimp chucking...

    ...

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    A musical instrument is often best studied far from the maddening crowd

    ...
    And occasionally played far from them, too :-)

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    Jeff, if this was the 1960s you would not be short of work as a reliable session guy, I think. Always in the groove, always pertinent. I'm gonna bet you had the lines for the second take going round in your head and just had to get them down.

    Nice flow Ronstuff.

    Nice tone wzpgsr. Wondering if that's a vintage vibe pup on your archtop.

    Wow John A, you played an open string! I think there's quite a lot of humour in your playing.


    Just an observation: I think the niggling in one or two posts here may put some folks off.
    I thought it was light banter, not niggling; note taken. As to open strings, I say use 'em if you got. Sometimes I am trying be funny when I play, but ... Mel Brooks famously said "tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall down a manhole and die." Let's just say I didn't cut my finger on this tune.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz
    I had to wrestle this one a couple days but here’s my contribution. I really love the head in the A section!

    Great job on the head. I thought the solo really cooked for the most part, too. Your time was really good, tone, phrasing, ideas too, though right at the end it seemed like you were kind of bailing out.


    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    I would say that I've been out enough. Full career and family life here.
    But once you've retired, and you're picking out a deathbed at IKEA, you may regret all your chimp chucking...

    ...
    That will be the least of my regrets.