Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Posts 101 to 125 of 140
  1. #101

    User Info Menu

    Thanks for the update, JBN. Torrents of water here, too, on the upper west side of NYC.

    Does my approach in post #97 seem to approach what we're aiming for?

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Ukena View Post
    So here's my effort. I have kept in mind the minor feel and tried to incorporate chromaticism...

    Nice! Your lines make so much sense. They bring out the sound of the chords, they're clear and lean enough that they're memorable and they follow one another clearly. These are lines that you can hold and build on. Nice job.

  4. #103
    Dominant chords and fingerboard navigation.
    I thought it'd be a good time to introduce the dominant chord as a player, as a melodic and harmonic building block to create a sense of elegant tension.

    One of the reasons why Blues is such a universally beloved stepping stone to improvisation is because the form is easy to navigate by ear and the scale palette is easily mastered.

    The piece we will get to know is an old standard, easy to hear the changes to, and it's got a lot of places to use a dominant scale.


    All Of Me is a piece that's easy to hear.
    The chords will match up very nicely with the lyrics of the song:

    "All Of Me"

    All of me
    Why not take all of me
    Can't you see
    I'm no good without you

    Take my lips
    I want to lose them
    Take my arms
    I'll never use them

    Your goodbye
    Left me with eyes that cry
    How can I
    Get along without you

    You took the part
    That once was my heart
    So why not
    Why not take all of me

    All of me
    Come on get all of me
    Can't you see
    I'm just a mess without you

    Take my lips
    I want to lose them
    Get a piece of these arms
    I'll never use them

    Your goodbye
    Left me with eyes that cry
    How can I
    Ever make it without you

    You know you got the part
    Used to be my heart
    So why not
    Why not take all of me


    So before I post the actual changes, let's start again with getting to know the piece by ear.
    We'll work in the key of C but it's better known as I Major.
    This piece has a lot of places where a diatonic chord would normally be, but the "spice" of the piece is those chords are now replaced by dominant chords. Mixolydian. Major with a flat 7. And any of your choice of personal variations of that (we saw in Night and Day that your choice of 7th chords is not fixed).

    In a diatonic situation the piece would begin IMaj7 III-7
    In this piece it's IMaj7 III7
    Try it out. Listen to the difference. Get to know the sound of the dominant 7th chord and passing notes to them.
    Then match the words to where you hear changes.

    Keep in mind that chord roots can be found all over the fingerboard (see the map I posted earlier) and use All Of Me as a vehicle to learn the layout of the fingerboard, the dominant chord and scales, and how playing over a standard can indeed be related to playing on the blues.

    More details to follow. Listen for now.



  5. #104
    Let's put some music to the lyrics.
    The Three Week Immersion: Study group for a tune based practice routine-screen-shot-2021-07-07-4-32-43-pm-png
    It's in the key of C, so the I on the fifth string will now be the third fret. I will only be marking the ROOT, which corresponds with the diatonic scale (Kinda like the scale, but largely using a 7th-dominant scale for many)

    I
    All of me

    Why not take
    III
    all of me

    VI
    Can't you see

    I'm no good
    II
    without you


    III
    Take my lips

    I want to
    VI
    lose them
    II

    Take my arms
    I'll never
    V
    use them


    I
    Your goodbye

    Left me with
    III
    eyes that cry
    VI

    How can I
    Get along
    II
    without you


    IV
    You took the
    IV
    part

    That
    I
    once was my
    VI
    heart

    So
    II
    why not

    Why not take
    V
    all of
    I
    me





    The Three Week Immersion: Study group for a tune based practice routine-screen-shot-2021-08-25-2-51-57-am-png
    Suggestions
    -Listen to a recording until you have it in your ear. The ones with words are often the easiest for me to remember because I remember the words, and the sounds that go along with them. They seem natural to remember.
    -Use the roman numerals to find a comfortable and safe place to follow the root movement.
    -Once you have a grasp of the chord space (root movement) use triads to inform the sound of those roots. And take note, don't get fancy, get it in your ear. The actual head of the tune itself is largely made of triads on those roots. Take a look, see how the melody of the tune outlines the chords. That's why it's so catchy.
    -Once you have the roots, try triads for melody in different order (inversions)...then use passing tones, or scale notes to go from chord tone to chord tone.
    -Use the map to find different locations for the roots. Explore outside of your comfort zone of finger positions; that's the key to fingerboard freedom.
    -Once you master notes within the scale, try introducing chromatic (read as 'wrong sounding') notes next to a chord tone followed by the chord tone and experiment with those sounds until you can internalize and play this sound in real time.
    -Be aware of directions and your thought process when you chose your notes and go for complement or contrast when you get to your next phrase.
    -Use the original tune as inspiration and create variations with it, for example instead of the descending1 5 3 that makes the "All of me" phrase, reverse that... then alternate with a phrase from the tune as it's written.
    -Play the tune with the notes as written but play different rhythms...do this off book, by ear.

    These are but a few experimental ideas, any of which can be an entire focus of study. So use All Of Me as a vehicle for honing the skills you have, and the ones you want to acquire.

    Post your thoughts and questions. Let's start with the tempo slow, and during the next week go from slow to fast.
    Some of you will be challenged by root movement, some with line construction. Chose one thing to work on and practice, ask questions and we'll share our thoughts. Don't be dissuaded by where others are coming from, but be encouraged by the many aspects of the tune that we're revealing.

    Practice with a metronome at some point, practice without one at other points, but SWING all the time!
    Have fun!

  6. #105

    User Info Menu

    The original structure of this tune had a ii7b5 in the third-to-last measure, because the melody went to an Ab on the "not" of the final "Why not take all of me."

    Interesting that, very quickly, in the popular versions of the tune, that Ab became A. Harmonically, I find the Ab to be more interesting; but it's almost impossible to find any recordings of the tune that way since Sinatra's first recording of it.

    Sheet music:
    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7-4AA...0s/s-l1600.jpg

    Mildred Bailey with Paul Whiteman:



    Louis Armstrong:

    Last edited by Ukena; 08-25-2021 at 01:17 PM.

  7. #106

    User Info Menu

    All of which means nothing, but it's interesting.

  8. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Ukena View Post
    All of which means nothing, but it's interesting.
    It IS interesting. Many of the versions of songs we know are a bit different from the way they were originally published. It's one of the things about the jazz tradition: the sounds, vocabulary, lexicon and syntax change with each generation.
    That's why finding your own sound and style is so important, if not essential. Make it personal. And that comes with knowing your sound, developing your ear.
    Through this particular immersion in this piece I think I'll introduce some of the other dominant 7 options, altered dominant, whole tone, mixolydian b9, etc and we can pick and choose which and why you use. Listen to the way Monk plays a piece vs the way Bill Evans plays the same piece. Same form, but very different expressions.

    We spend a lot of time learning the notes to play; not nearly enough learning to love the way they go together.
    All of which means everything, and yes it's VERY interesting!

  9. #108

    User Info Menu

    A tune I've not played a ton, but that is so familiar from just hearing it so much over the years. I haven't touched it since JMB's SuperChops II thread 3-4 years ago, but was able to get the head down in one short session tonight. Spent my night's practice playing and singing the head against my go-to drop 2 voicings. If I have a goal for this 3 week session, it will be to use the melody itself as a springboard for the improvisation. I'll probably play just the head and drop 2s for another night or two before starting the superchops-style improv-over-backing-track thing.

  10. #109

    User Info Menu

    I've been playing through the changes along with Drum Genius, no comping behind me. I've been doing that more and more lately with tunes I'm working on. It really helps me to outline the harmony and really hear the tune. I still have an occasional brain fart where I'm forgetting which chord I'm going to. Usually that E7 in bar 9. I'm also trying to work on some cool diminished licks for the turnaround. I'll keep plugging away and perhaps make a recording soon.

  11. #110
    WHAT IS THIS THING CALLED DOMINANT 7?
    Yes everyone knows that the 7th chord is one of the most important chords in the toolbox, but how do you actually own the 7th chord and explore the really juicy sounds within it? Let's go back to one way to make melody with it; let's look at how to find the elusive character that makes the listener stop and say "What WAS that?!!"
    The chord itself has a major core to it. Even without the b7 note, it's got a strong character of "off-ness" to it because our ear is trained to hear the diatonic as the given. Dominant sounds are elegant interlopers into the world of expectation. They're the yin/yang of the expected/surprise duality. They occur harmonically where you'd expect something else.
    They also have an inherent sense of movement: most often up a 4th (D7 goes to G, C7 goes to F, A7 goes to D, etc...) You can hear this 'supplanted diatonic sound' in All Of Me. Diatonically it'd be C E-7 A-7 to D-7. Because you can say so much with the major triad alone, especially in spread voicings
    1 5 3
    3 1 5
    5 3 1
    you can say a huge amount without even using the b7 note. Note: learn to use simplicity and elegance as a creative tool.
    The Three Week Immersion: Study group for a tune based practice routine-screen-shot-2021-07-11-10-33-24-pm-png
    Here's a map of the notes in relative orientation. Find a root on any string and from this you can see and learn the intervals that are available to you all across the fingerboard. Think of it as the infinite chord grid too. You can literally make any chord if you know where the voices are located, and you can also create lines that range wider than your own comfort zone.

    If ever there was a good time to collect phrases or "licks" of your own making, 7th chords is it.
    Suggestion: Put aside a large amount of time and just begin exploring the major triad, and internalize it in close and spread form. Only after you've become totally comfortable with the sound, add the b7. Do this and at any time, using the notes of the scale too- 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 -put together a phrase a day.

    Phrase a day? Why?
    Dominant situations are so common that it's going to be the first place that separates the "ho-hum running the arpeggio" players from the "That's pretty exciting-why didn't I think of that" players.
    Try working with the first 5 notes of the scale, 1-5. Think of this as the trunk of the tree.
    Try working with the top 4 notes of the scale, 5-1. Think of this as the part of the tree with character.
    Then step 3, for more advanced and seasoned players, combine other notes, introducing chromatic notes (don't even worry about the chord scales they're derived from, learn the meaning and individual character of chromatics. In dominant situations, this is part and parcel).
    When, during this experimenting and tonal exploration, you find a cool sound, SAVE it and put it in your personal lick book. Play it until you can play it effortlessly and on demand.
    Even one a week, you'll have 50 personal non ho-hum dominant phrases in a year's work.
    More importantly, each phrase you create will improve your ear, and add to the sophistication of your playing. You will build on those you have, as you learn to master rhythm, wider intervals, alternative scales (like whole tone) and you'll learn about long and short phrases... all sorts of stuff that makes each player unique.

    There's something here for everyone, no matter what level you're playing at. Experiment. Play around. Play with feeling. Listen. Have fun!

    And add comments.

  12. #111

    User Info Menu

    Played the head a bunch tonight, then started messin' with the A7 and E7 dominants in the A section. I started out with a dominant lick I have under my fingers, but only in one position. I typically use it to resolve V7 to a minor tonic. I recorded a loop of the first 8 bars of All of Me with no subs, just CM7, E7, A7, D-7. Over the A7, I started out playing the lick as I normally use it, fifth position, sixth string root. Then, when the E7 rolled back around, using my ear, I mapped the lick over my 6th position dominant scale, 5th string root until I could play it pretty smoothly. Then I just started improvising, using the notes, interval leaps, and rhythms of the lick as a suggestive framework for creating new, similar sounds with different rhythms, different decorations after the resolution, etc. There is so much mileage to be had from just one lick. I think rather than play a lick a day, I might stick with a lick a week to just see how far I can take it.

  13. #112

    User Info Menu

    I had a go at soloing over the A section and tried really hard to focus on my phrasing throughout the changes. I had to slow it right down to cope. Trying to come up more ideas in my playing to keep the interest but there are still lot of brain farting moments.



    The next step is to learn the head sometime this week and then try a bit more adventurous in getting some altered sound in those dominants.

    Any C & C would be appreciated.
    Last edited by Jerry405; 08-28-2021 at 07:11 PM.

  14. #113

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry405 View Post

    Any C & C would be appreciated.
    Earlier in this thread, JBN discusses looping sections (or the entire form) for five minutes at slow tempos and increasing gradually as you’re able. If you’re not doing that, you might start there.

  15. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry405 View Post
    I had a go at soloing over the A section and tried really hard to focus on my phrasing throughout the changes. I had to slow it right down to cope. Trying to come up more ideas in my playing to keep the interest but there are still lot of brain farting moments.



    The next step is to learn the head sometime this week and then try a bit more adventurous getting some altered sound in those dominants.

    Any C & C would be appreciated.
    You've got a great swing and time feel, and nice lines that make sense. They follow each other really nicely. Good note choice and terrific melodies. I think you've got so many great ideas, the only things I might say you'd constructively benefit from is seeing the solo build over time. There's a similar approach in the different choruses, although you're using longer figures starting in the 4th chorus. Good!
    Since your melodic sense is so strong, I might suggest you start hearing several smaller sections as tonal areas that you can cross the bar lines on, and in that larger melodic area, create lines that have a more dramatic sense of closure. That's one of the big plateaus that makes a solo sound less like "changes" and more like an inspired set of unexpected lines. I can get into this idea if it's of interest.
    I really like what you have here.
    You can get a whole different sense of space from your soloing if your rhythm section weren't so straight on the beat though, it forces your time into a french swing feel, which is not bad if you're going after Django feel, but...
    You can try recording a rhythm section to a metronome on 2 and 4, even a bass line that swings to that will free up the space to play with more nuance to the beat, with a greater open space to push into the syncopated or elastic sense of build up. Just a suggestion. Try it and see if you like what you can get out of it.
    Yeah, I really like your playing here. I can't wait to see what the next chorus brings!!
    Thanks so much for sharing and posting!

  16. #115

    User Info Menu

    Thank you guys so much for the lovely comments and suggestions.

    I had another go today reading through the melody as well as learning to solo over the B section. There is still a lot spots to work on but I do like the suggestion of trying less predicted lines. I tried the stragegy that JBN mentioned previously (whenever I feel like going somewhere I used to, I would try a different directions and by that, I meant both rhythmically and melodically if that makes sense). Also I change the backing in my BIAB to a normal swing feel instead of that french swing and it did make me sound different and more organic. Thanks to JBN.

    I only had time to do a few takes and this one sounded alright but by the 3rd chorus I was just too districted by my six years old son who was having a great time dancing around the house.



    Let me know what you guys think and thank you again for helping me learn.

  17. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry405 View Post
    Thank you guys so much for the lovely comments and suggestions.

    I had another go today reading through the melody as well as learning to solo over the B section. There is still a lot spots to work on but I do like the suggestion of trying less predicted lines. I tried the stragegy that JBN mentioned previously (whenever I feel like going somewhere I used to, I would try a different directions and by that, I meant both rhythmically and melodically if that makes sense). Also I change the backing in my BIAB to a normal swing feel instead of that french swing and it did make me sound different and more organic. Thanks to JBN.

    I only had time to do a few takes and this one sounded alright but by the 3rd chorus I was just too districted by my six years old son who was having a great time dancing around the house.



    Let me know what you guys think and thank you again for helping me learn.
    That's great! I can hear your lines being played by a tenor player. Who do you listen to? Who are the players you find inspiration in? I like your use of motif and repeating patterns that wind up with a juicy phrase. There's nice sequencing in some of your lines. I was going to suggest you look into sequences and embellishing figures to extend your phrases from one chord to another but you've got that down nicely in this example. Very cool!

    If you haven't already, check out Dexter Gordon's music. His sense of pacing and the logic of his construction is singular. He, and Sonny Rollins.

    As a matter of fact, every once in a while I find myself going into a practice session cold (we all come cold...it's practice, right?) but I'm really struggling to 'hear' ideas to work on. Other days I'll start my musical time listening to some recording, Youtube or CD track of something that has real masterful gold in it. As I really listen carefully, I can feel the individual sense of breath and phrasing, and that carries over into the way I practice, the way I approach the beat, the avoidance of stale finger movements, my innate swing feel. Because my ears are open.
    Now I try to immerse myself in some listening time, just 5 minutes before I practice. I think of it as the easiest ear training in the world.

    Thanks for sharing this, Jerry405. I really enjoyed it!

  18. #117

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry405 View Post
    Thank you guys so much for the lovely comments and suggestions.

    I had another go today reading through the melody as well as learning to solo over the B section. There is still a lot spots to work on but I do like the suggestion of trying less predicted lines. I tried the stragegy that JBN mentioned previously (whenever I feel like going somewhere I used to, I would try a different directions and by that, I meant both rhythmically and melodically if that makes sense). Also I change the backing in my BIAB to a normal swing feel instead of that french swing and it did make me sound different and more organic. Thanks to JBN.

    I only had time to do a few takes and this one sounded alright but by the 3rd chorus I was just too districted by my six years old son who was having a great time dancing around the house.



    Let me know what you guys think and thank you again for helping me learn.
    Fantastic. Real nice!

  19. #118

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry405
    Thank you guys so much for the lovely comments and suggestions.

    I had another go today reading through the melody as well as learning to solo over the B section. There is still a lot spots to work on but I do like the suggestion of trying less predicted lines. I tried the stragegy that JBN mentioned previously (whenever I feel like going somewhere I used to, I would try a different directions and by that, I meant both rhythmically and melodically if that makes sense). Also I change the backing in my BIAB to a normal swing feel instead of that french swing and it did make me sound different and more organic. Thanks to JBN.

    I only had time to do a few takes and this one sounded alright but by the 3rd chorus I was just too districted by my six years old son who was having a great time dancing around the house.



    Let me know what you guys think and thank you again for helping me learn.
    Very nice. Sweet lines and cool phrasing. Thanks for sharing!

  20. #119

    User Info Menu

    Thank you guys for the lovely and encouraging comments. I am glad you guys found this take interesting. I would love to hear from your playing as well. It would be great to share ideas and learning from each others.

    To be honest, I haven't spent enough time diggin into all those golden records in the swing and bebop eras. There is just so much to learn and so many players to listen to. Thanks JBN suggesting those guys, I will definitely check them out. I have always heard and knows those guys in the books and stuff but never really dig deep into each of them.

    I listen to a whole range of stuff. For swing jazz, I used to listen to lot of Eddie Higgins and his trio back in my uni days and I own nearly every single album he has recorded on standards. Some Siljie Nergaard (the old stuff though), Diana Krall, etc

    For guitarists I listen to lot of Sylvain Luc, Birleli Lagrene, Anthony Wilson, James Sherlock (awesome australian player), some Joe Pass. I am also into Rock Fusion as I grew up with Steve vai and Joe Satriani's music. Loving all those people like Hiromi Uehara, Yellow Jacket, etc. Lately starting to get into some Jonathan Kreisberg and Julian Lage.

    By the way, I do have a question about the chart and hope you guys can shed some lights on this.

    The biiio7 in the turn around (Cmaj7 - Ebo7 - Dm7 - G7) which is super common but I never really learn where that come from. I know everybody says just play a harmonic minor a semi tone above the chord (in this case E harmonic minor) and most people say it is a common tone diminished or passing diminished because how it "resolve" downward a semitone to ii chord (or some case it is the iii chord like the nearness of you), instead of the other usual dim7 that function as a dominant/secondary dominant and resolve upward (e.g G#o7 - Am7 / C - C#o7 - Dm7 - G7). I actually wonder if it is just a borrowed 2nd chord from the Lydian #2 (from the E harmonic minor). Hence, the progression is Imaj7 - #2o7/biiio7(borrowed chord) - ii - V7 in the same way that is similar to something like these progressions below:

    I - IV - iv - I (C - F - Fm - C)
    I - vi - bIV - V (C - Am - Ab - G)

    I haven't had much practice with this type of dim7th chord yet. Would love hear how you guys tackle this.

  21. #120

    User Info Menu

    How are you guys doing this week? Would love to hear where you guys are up to.

    This weekend, I have worked on my comping skills focusing on the drop 2 voicings. I only had time to work on the A section and hopefully will try more later on during the week. There is lot of moment where I had to really think hard to try to create interesting rhythmic ideas.



    Any C & C would be appreciated. Thank you.

  22. #121

    User Info Menu

    Had a little break from guitar for a few days. Getting back into the swing of things this weekend, will post something soon.

  23. #122

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry405 View Post
    How are you guys doing this week? Would love to hear where you guys are up to.

    This weekend, I have worked on my comping skills focusing on the drop 2 voicings. I only had time to work on the A section and hopefully will try more later on during the week. There is lot of moment where I had to really think hard to try to create interesting

    Any C & C would be appreciated. Thank you.
    Really interesting harmonies, and nice groove.

  24. #123

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry405 View Post
    How are you guys doing this week? Would love to hear where you guys are up to.

    This weekend, I have worked on my comping skills focusing on the drop 2 voicings. I only had time to work on the A section and hopefully will try more later on during the week. There is lot of moment where I had to really think hard to try to create interesting rhythmic ideas.



    Any C & C would be appreciated. Thank you.
    Nicely done. There are so many ways to comp over a tune. Always best when it's musical, tasteful and not stepping over the soloist!

  25. #124

    User Info Menu

    I hope everyone is well. I wonder if anyone is still practicing this piece. This weekend, we are still in lockdown here in Australia and I had time to do a little bit more but not much improvement. I usually do about 10 takes when practicing impro and realise it is up to about half way I usually feel good about what I play and then fell bad towards the last few takes. This take sounded ok but it certainlly needs lot of practice to be able to do it convincingly.

    I did have fun playing my new guitar though...^^. Would love to hear where you guys are up to. Or JBN will start us on a new piece?


  26. #125

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry405 View Post
    I hope everyone is well. I wonder if anyone is still practicing this piece. This weekend, we are still in lockdown here in Australia and I had time to do a little bit more but not much improvement. I usually do about 10 takes when practicing impro and realise it is up to about half way I usually feel good about what I play and then fell bad towards the last few takes. This take sounded ok but it certainlly needs lot of practice to be able to do it convincingly.

    I did have fun playing my new guitar though...^^. Would love to hear where you guys are up to. Or JBN will start us on a new piece?

    I have been practicing it. It actually turned into a little pandemic-era remote recording project for a couple of friends and me. I’ll post it when it’s done.