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  1. #1

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    What a great and clear lesson this is:


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Hi, R,
    The major takeaway from this video, for beginners, is to practice licks/chords/scales in 3 octaves. Great. The reason is that it expands your use of the fretboard and will give you overall better fluency when jumping around the neck. It also gives your playing color possibilities that you don't have when you're locked in one position for each chord and it connects the progression in more interesting ways. I know this concept of playing changes, formulaically, is accepted pedagogy for many JG teachers and a great learning tool, but there is also great danger in this approach for the young player where every improvisation becomes an algebraic equation rather than an expression of his/her personality--my major criticism of the majority of young players today. . . predictability and sameness. . . you always know where they're going musically. And, then, do we really call it Jazz? That's another topic.
    Play live . . . Marinero

  4. #3

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    Marinero, throughout the entire history of music - in all styles - there have been players demonstrating predictability and sameness...but it’s okay: amateurs outnumber professionals by thousands to one, and form the support that professionals require to make a living. Very few - I imagine - have any ambition to be the next Miles or Trane, but do want to enjoy making inroads into playing jazz-like sounds. They get a tremendous amount of pleasure from playing with a backing track, or playing in the local café-bar, maybe even rising to the level of getting a gig or two in the local jazz bar (if there is one).

    For these people, videos such as the one above (he has many more worth checking out) can be very helpful.

    So much for the amateurs. Those young guns who make it to Berkeley are probably your real target. They are the ones we hope will transcend the quick tips, who have the potential to develop as genuine artists, encapsulating and developing the art form. Do they need videos like this? I don’t know. Some might, some won’t, but we wouldn’t want to reject an entire generation because of a few videos on YouTube.

    Let people take from it any positives they can find.

  5. #4

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    Yea I tend to agree, (I'm a pro so who cares), the only thing I might add... this is another of those tips that tend to form references ...with amateurs. Tips that are formulated from musical approaches that miss much of what's going on.

    That being the basic source or scale that the licks are derived from. They can get muddy fast. When I run into players who really use BH approach.... It's like here it is... either use it or sit out. And then when they cover or comp, they dictate what's going on harmonically.... it's either mud or mud. Accomplished players have ears, so generally it becomes more of the embellishment school of performing. Not everyone wants to perform that way.

    All that being said... yea licks and spread 2 and 3 octave interval patterns are very cool.... it worked for wes. When used for solo breaks... that speak well. And the lesson was well presented.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    . . . predictability and sameness. . .
    a bit like your posts, then?

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Marinero, throughout the entire history of music - in all styles - there have been players demonstrating predictability and sameness...but it’s okay: amateurs outnumber professionals by thousands to one, and form the support that professionals require to make a living. Very few - I imagine - have any ambition to be the next Miles or Trane, but do want to enjoy making inroads into playing jazz-like sounds. They get a tremendous amount of pleasure from playing with a backing track, or playing in the local café-bar, maybe even rising to the level of getting a gig or two in the local jazz bar (if there is one).

    For these people, videos such as the one above (he has many more worth checking out) can be very helpful.

    So much for the amateurs. Those young guns who make it to Berkeley are probably your real target. They are the ones we hope will transcend the quick tips, who have the potential to develop as genuine artists, encapsulating and developing the art form. Do they need videos like this? I don’t know. Some might, some won’t, but we wouldn’t want to reject an entire generation because of a few videos on YouTube.

    Let people take from it any positives they can find.

    Hi, R,
    There's not much above with which I'd disagree in context. My mantra has always been that music is human communication. And, inherent in that statement is the idea that we all have our own voices and it is this trait of musical performance that I find the most important. We all make mistakes and ,at times, we play flawless but the overriding factor is that we should all attempt to find our own voice. To say he plays like Wes, or she plays like Emily is a criticism not an accolade. Imagine going into a room of people to have a meeting and everyone spoke with the same voice, inflection, and tonal range. How long would it be before you ran for the padded cell? And, that's just my point. Where is the failure among academicians/music instructors today versus say fifty years ago? It's that they are producing generations of automatons with great chops but no personality or uniqueness. And, this is not just a problem in Jazz but also in Classical Music where we are producing amazing musical machines who highlight their phenomenal technique at the expense of their own human voice. I am very disappointed with most American CG's and rarely listen to them since, for me, there's only technique. However, there's a Renaissance ,of sorts, from Eastern Europe that is producing some of the finest musicians today across the board. What are they doing there differently than in the US? They're teaching the methodology that produced greats like Kempff, Rubenstein, Casals, Brendel, Horwitz, Heifitz, Rostropovich, etc. in the great European tradition. And, the results speak for themselves. But, it's also no different for Jazz where prrevious generations of Jazzers honed their voices in small clubs and bars and created the Renaissance of Jazz we still are listening to today for inspiration.
    So, Rob, when we watch these videos, they DO have merit but we must understand that they are not the Holy Grail of performance and in many ways provide a real roadblock to a personal voice when they are viewed as such. Like grandma used to say: "Don't confuse the meat with the potatoes."
    Play live . . . Marinero

  8. #7

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    I don’t think I’m confusing anything. Next time someone gives me a tip, I’ll try not to accuse him of destroying American cultural values.

  9. #8

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    By the way, speaking personally, I do have my own voice. No one has ever accused me or even hinted that I sound like someone else. And I’ve done that while being an avid student of every teacher and/or player who has something to say. And that goes for pros and amateurs.

    I recognise I wasn’t at all under attack. I’m just speaking up for the many players who do have a unique voice, yet still enjoy being a student, picking up tips here and there, mulling them over, taking on some parts while rejecting others. It’s what most of us do.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Marinero, throughout the entire history of music - in all styles - there have been players demonstrating predictability and sameness...but it’s okay: amateurs outnumber professionals by thousands to one, and form the support that professionals require to make a living. Very few - I imagine - have any ambition to be the next Miles or Trane, but do want to enjoy making inroads into playing jazz-like sounds. They get a tremendous amount of pleasure from playing with a backing track, or playing in the local café-bar, maybe even rising to the level of getting a gig or two in the local jazz bar (if there is one).

    For these people, videos such as the one above (he has many more worth checking out) can be very helpful.

    So much for the amateurs. Those young guns who make it to Berkeley are probably your real target. They are the ones we hope will transcend the quick tips, who have the potential to develop as genuine artists, encapsulating and developing the art form. Do they need videos like this? I don’t know. Some might, some won’t, but we wouldn’t want to reject an entire generation because of a few videos on YouTube.

    Let people take from it any positives they can find.
    Howdy Rob - not to nitpick but Berkeley is a city in California, near Oakland and San Francisco. There is a university there (Cal State Berkeley). It is a hotbed of California liberalism and has been for decades.

    The contemporary Boston music college "Berklee" is a play on words, and is named after Lee Eliot Berk, the former college president and son of the school's founder Lawrence Berk. The school was founded as Schillinger House in 1945 and was renamed by Berk.

    A bit of trivia for you there.

  11. #10

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    Ha, brilliant. I had no idea. I’ve learned something else

  12. #11

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    LOL... yea I remember the old man... all I heard him say was... Reg... more white wine. As for his son, Lee, that was the beginning of the end of Berklee... changed the direction of the school. He was a some type of Business major and when he took over the school went that direction. Good or Bad, not for me to say. Programs changes, costs went up.

    Rob... my comments weren't complicated, or had nothing to do with cultural anything. I'm a working musicians, (well actually missed most of last year... but have jumped back in saddle... playing again), anyway I just don't agree with most of the BH approach, and the lesson somewhat highlighted the usual reasons why. I've watched many of Chris's vids... they're all cool and well done. Again just don't believe in or like the approach.

    Have you checked out his actual playing?
    Last edited by Reg; 06-26-2021 at 08:31 PM.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    LOL... yea I remember the old man... all I heard him say was... Reg... more white wine. As for his son, Lee, that was the beginning of the end of Berklee... changed the direction of the school. He was a some type of Business major and when he took over the school went that direction. Good or Bad, not for me to say. Programs changes, costs went up.

    Rob... my comments weren't complicated, or had nothing to do with cultural anything. I'm a working musicians, (well actually missed most of last year... but have jumped back in saddle... playing again), anyway I just don't agree with most of the BH approach, and the lesson somewhat highlighted the usual reasons why. I've watched many of Chris's vids... they're all cool and well done. Again just don't believe in or like the approach.

    Have you checked out his actual playing?
    I may be misremembering but I seem to recall Lee having like 5 degrees, including a law degree.

    They are indeed business oriented and expensive, but I have certainly benefited from some of their online courses.

  14. #13

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    Reg, my comments weren’t directed at you. Great to hear you are back playing again. No, I haven’t heard him play, but I wouldn’t be copying his playing anyway. My heroes in the guitar world are few and varied, outside the guitar world many and varied.

    So, Reg, if this guy is not doing it right, what is right? How would you teach jazz? I don’t want to appear provocative here, as I rarely am. I’m just curious. I imagine lots of listening and transcribing the greats?

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    I don’t think I’m confusing anything. Next time someone gives me a tip, I’ll try not to accuse him of destroying American cultural values.
    Hi, R,
    I must emphasize again . . . THIS IS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK AGAINST YOU OR YOUR POST! It is, however, a real issue among contemporary performers and educators that is being largely ignored by the listening public and especially academia. What are we as musicians? We are storytellers that speak through an instrument and, in theory, communicate our deepest feelings and emotions in a musical narrative. Simple. And, like the human voice, we either fail or succeed. There's nothing wrong with these videos as long as you don't confuse them with the real thing. They are learning tools. Agreed. They quicken the progress. Agreed. However, they are not the goal which ,if followed, produced the generation of feckless robots who play Jazz today. Why aren't more musicians asking this question? The answer is simple . . . because it is a direct criticism of their playing.
    When I listen to music today, I try to be open-minded. I search daily for new voices but with the exception of some very talented Classical players, it all sounds the same in Jazz. They are well-trained robots who've followed the same path as everyone else and their "music" reflects this methodology. How do you develop nuance, feeling, personality, creativity sitting in a practice room playing scales over chords????? You've got to get out of your padded cell and PLAY WITH OTHER MUSICIANS--LIVE. And, is it coincidence that 99% of the music showcased on this Forum(not statistical but close) is listening to musicians from 40 to 70 years ago? Doesn't that say something of the failure of creative music today?
    Last night, I listened to the CD "Billie Holiday-Holiday for Lovers," a compilation from Verve in 2002. It featured "Sweets" Edison-trumpet; Ben Webster-tenor; Jimmy Rowles-piano; Barney Kessel-guitar; Red Mitchell/Joe Mondragon-bass and Alvin Stoller on drums. Billie sang mostly ballads and there wasn't a song on that CD that didn't speak the poetry of music. There were no blistering, breathless runs on tenor, no frenetic drum beats, no flagellating bass lines, no hammer-fisted piano playing, no screeching trumpet, no undecipherable runs on guitar, and no cliche drenched lines . . . just great music with a soul. And, did I say Billie?
    So, when you grow up eating hamburger and fries . . . it's your default. But if your accustomed to a prime, rare filet and Cesar Salad, you'll never be happy with a lesser product.
    Play live . . . Marinero

    Here's Billie!


  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Reg, my comments weren’t directed at you. Great to hear you are back playing again. No, I haven’t heard him play, but I wouldn’t be copying his playing anyway. My heroes in the guitar world are few and varied, outside the guitar world many and varied.

    So, Reg, if this guy is not doing it right, what is right? How would you teach jazz? I don’t want to appear provocative here, as I rarely am. I’m just curious. I imagine lots of listening and transcribing the greats?
    hey Rob, cool

    Obviously "right" is complicated etc... But my points are about teaching the BH method of Harmony. The approach just doesn't work with many contexts. It is an approach which should be taught as a possible choice of musical organization, a relationship, not the beginning or starting reference.

    I obviously believe in technique before or along with learning performance material. I also believe in the standard BS,
    the elements of Music,
    -Rhythm, Dynamics, Melody, harmony, tone, texture... Form The somewhat basic musical concepts.

    I dig BH as a musician, loved his early playing and arrangements... we're lucky to have him. I can't really compare him to someone like Hoarse Silver. I can only think of a few BH tunes ... can't even play a gig where a HS tune isn't played. Don't really think of either of them as incredible pianist. I mean look at the musicians that came from the messengers...

    So where I'm going is... what is jazz, is it the performer or the music? Or both, LOL. Sorry, makes for great dialect and debate.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar
    I may be misremembering but I seem to recall Lee having like 5 degrees, including a law degree.

    They are indeed business oriented and expensive, but I have certainly benefited from some of their online courses.
    That rings some bells, I graduated before Lee took over, only meet him at functions, shoulder rubbing BS. But did get to hang with the old man...
    I knew I didn't really like the kid. LOL.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    That rings some bells, I graduated before Lee took over, only meet him at functions, shoulder rubbing BS. But did get to hang with the old man...
    I knew I didn't really like the kid. LOL.
    so what about Lawrence and the white wine? He was asking you to bring some to him at party or something, lol. Would like to hear that story.

    i can’t imagine trying to get buzzed on white wine, drinking a cab at the moment, but to each his own.

  19. #18

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    Yea... I use to gig with a few of the facutilty members... and ended up at BS functions... It was more of a joke, pretty sure he was just getting tired of the BS etc... my last or next to last year when they opened the performance center... upstairs they had a reception room and bar, when ever I saw Mr Berk, (as it was back then)... he would say, Reg ...white wine please... and yea I would help him out. I mean the school was covering my cost etc... I transcribed BB charts for the ensemble office library... back in the reel to reel days... and did work the bar sometimes... We did laugh about it...

    I've never really drank... (until after kids),at least half of my long time musician friends have had to quit etc...

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Yea... I use to gig with a few of the facutilty members... and ended up at BS functions... It was more of a joke, pretty sure he was just getting tired of the BS etc... my last or next to last year when they opened the performance center... upstairs they had a reception room and bar, when ever I saw Mr Berk, (as it was back then)... he would say, Reg ...white wine please... and yea I would help him out. I mean the school was covering my cost etc... I transcribed BB charts for the ensemble office library... back in the reel to reel days... and did work the bar sometimes... We did laugh about it...

    I've never really drank... (until after kids),at least half of my long time musician friends have had to quit etc...
    I get it. I bartended in college too, in a large disco, hehe. OMG. VERY good times.

    Something tells me you look fondly on those times as well, at least some parts of it.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar
    I get it. I bartended in college too, in a large disco, hehe. OMG. VERY good times.

    Something tells me you look fondly on those times as well, at least some parts of it.
    Yea... being young, the road, single, never sleeping.... yea great memories, all of it. Thanks for comments and sorry Rob for taking the thread into the mud.
    yea those were my only bartender gigs. I wouldn't have been able to cut the real thing.... not that haven't play a million bars...LOL.