The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    The way I see it, rhythm is rather abstract thing if not rooted in some kind of physical reality, I mean when not grounded in the body perception is subjective -- time stretches during busy parts and contracts when the music is sparse - it may easily go unnoticed. Clocks have real parts oscillating -- pendulum, atoms, the planet itself turning, so having a moving body definitely helps.
    Playing alone or with a metronome or soloing relying on solid rhythm section is one thing - if technique permits it is not that difficult. Providing pulse when everyone is all over the place is more challenging.
    Not that I completely deny possibility that one can not have good time if he is standing still, but most people whose time I admire visibly dance when they play:

    I believe for those who do not move there still is some physical sensation they rely on - may be subtle and unnoticed, but real nevertheless.

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  3. #52

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    of course ... in the end: it is alive, we are a part of it.


    with this thread in mind, I monitored myself on the Piano this morning, there is lots of movement indeed.

    It doesn't have to be, but there is tapping with the left leg, slightly rocking from the upper body, head noddings.

    lots of stuff, to keep oneself engaged besides the things that are played.

  4. #53

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    In the current context I recommend a read by Hal Galper:

    JazzImprov Magazine Interview | Hal Galper


    Edit: In case you don't know the mentioned Chick Corea article, you'll find it here:

    Chick Corea article - The Myth of Improvisation | The Gear Page
    Last edited by DonEsteban; 06-04-2021 at 06:31 AM.

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filmosound 621
    my favorite video ... clave guy to the very left ...
    If you can learn to move like those folks move to that kinda rhythm you'll be a living, breathing clave. You won't be wasting one iota of energy on something as boring counting in your head. And that applies to more than just Cubano!

  6. #55

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    see "tresillo" in wiki..
    all the "clave" and rhythm theory talk is pontificating

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    see "tresillo" in wiki..
    all the "clave" and rhythm theory talk is pontificating
    Yeah, there's a real air of self importance in my video when I say "im not an authority on anything, this isn't a lesson, just an observation. "

  8. #57

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    Dammit Jim! I'm a guitarist, not a musicologist!

    My only experience with clave was playing the instrument occasionally in a latin music outfit from about '72 to '78. We didn't have Wiki back then. The percussionist taught us. He called the rhythms clave and reverse clave. I liked playing a-go-go on batucada better.

    Side-note: I talked to Ray Barreto's bass player about how to get our guy to play with the right feel. He described what he was doing as creating the feeling of swimming upstream against the flow. I liked that.

  9. #58

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    Learning rhythms is fun, and will help you get more mileage out of what you already do.

  10. #59

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  11. #60

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    My theory is when you hear players grunting as they play in the records, they are actually vocalizing triplet subdivisions. If you vocalize triplet subdivisions up tempo, you sound like you're grunting but you can still feel the triplets as vocalized in your head. It helps you stay locked in with time.

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankhond

    And then the clave thing. I know what clave is, but I had no idea people think clave when listening to swing. I'll have to listen to stuff and see if I hear it... if someone cares to make a dedicated video explaining it, that would be golden.
    Start with some New Orleans parade music, second line. Once you hear it, you'll never unhear it.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankhond
    The internet has a way of making me confused. I have two issues now.

    A. Counting. A well established youtube jazz teacher made a video where he claims he is always counting the beat in his head and I should too. I do this when practicing to figure out rhytmic placements and stuff, but when actually playing it totally gets in the way. Wondering if it's just me, I searched for "counting" in this forum and came across the following quote:

    B. "Find the clave in everything" which I think was posted by Jeff Matz. I have no idea what this means, except that the app Drum Genius (which is recommended by Barry Greene and everybody else) has a clave mode.

    So two questions.

    A. Do you actually count in your head when *playing*?

    B. To me, clave is a latin rhythm. How can it be "in everything" and how do I find it?
    Start with quarter note comping while counting “1 2 3 4, 2 2 3 4, 3 2 3 4, etc. for claves you need to really listen to those rhythms it sounds like.

  14. #63

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    When I try to read something tricky, I resort to counting.

    But, when I'm performing it, I try to have it translated into a drum lick I can sing. So, for example, suppose there's a hit on and-of-4. I can find it by counting 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 AND. But, on the bandstand, I'll sing to myself, Dah dah Dah dah dah da da DAH, or a simplified version of that.

    There's a thread on here in which the clave idea was explained in more detail that I can.

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    When I try to read something tricky, I resort to counting.
    Everyone does that. It's what counting is for.

    When you can feel it, feel it. But you can't feel everything right away.

  16. #65

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    Most musicians count with their body, or just their foot. I realised I got free training in finding the clave when I surprised my guitar teacher by playing watermelon man - on piano. So many left hand lines do your clave for you!


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  17. #66

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    And I suppose finding the clave is best learned with some 10 tonne claves, like that second line, Broadway, (Tom Waits’s) Till the money runs out, Take Five. Right?


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  18. #67

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    It doesn’t hurt! Finding the clave of Parker tunes is quite instructive too. They all have em.