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  1. #51

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    rpjazz -

    Lovely stuff, best so far. Fine musical sensibility. And better than a video, imo, cause we only hear the music.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    All constructive criticism welcome
    Yes, but it's not really just an exercise, it's supposed to be more a simplified solo, which is what you asked about.

    By the way, if I were you (because you said you wrote out the first one), I wouldn't write out solos and then regurgitate them, it always sounds false.

    Try fewer notes with some musical/bossa feel for the tune to it. You know, get some music going. That's the secret, I think.

    Also - big tip - don't just play the basic chord tones, like D-F#-A for DM7 or G-Bb-D for Gm6. Play the extensions too. So, if it's a Gm6, play the m6 (E). If it's a D7b9, use the b9 (Eb), and so on. Then it sounds jazzy, as it should. Better than that, your ear will get used to hearing them and you'll get used to playing them and knowing where they are.

    Keep going. One day you'll wake up and realise you know what you're doing. Give your brain a chance to absorb things. We always overlook that.

  4. #53

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    Well, sat down to a lovely meal of prosciutto, manchego, olives, grapes and the world's best and easiest chicken salad, and definitely had a bit too much sangria (kind of a pan Mediterranean meal deal)

    But I wanted to give everyone a listen and some comments too, even if my ears might hear something completely different tomorrow.

    John, I liked both takes, but I think your time was better on the electric. I thought you had some nice unforced bluesy stuff on both.

    Rag, its funny you say you don't hear and blues here, because your bluesiest licks were definitely your most convincing.

    Vintagelove, very Bensony! There were a lot of lines where I heard more voice than guitar, but that didn't bother me a bit as your vocalizations were crisp and articulated and your time was great. When I could hear the guitar, it was just like your vocalizations. Hope you'll join us every week.

    Rp, clearly your wheelhouse, and without a doubt one of my favorite takes of yours. Everything about it sounded great to me.

    Liarspoker, glad you joined us. You had said jazz was not really your thing...I wonder what your thing is, then-- because it seems to me like you abandoned it for playing what should be "jazz correct." I'd like to hear you do a take where you let us just hear you, and not stifle it for the "correct" notes. You got the right notes,, but i can tell just from this quick take you weren't "feeling it," and that you absolutely can play with good feel--when you're feeling it. And use a bunch of vibrato, vibrato is great! Glad you joined us and I hope you'll keep posting.

    Picking, another post where I can really hear you pausing, listening, and following the melody you're hearing. For giggles, sometime I'd like to just hear what it sounds like when you run changes. I feel like the next step for you is somewhere between following your bliss of playing completely by ear and throwing in some parts the outline the harmony a little more directly for balance.

    Fun stuff y'all. I need to scroll back and make sure I didn't miss anybody...lots of chat about this one. Glad I could ruffle a few feathers with this pick (just kidding)

  5. #54

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    https://www.soundclick.com/artist/de...?bandID=562588

    The first tune on the list is comping only. Second on the list has the solo.

    It occured to me that part of playing a tune is comping. So, I took out the solo and posted the comping on two choruses of the tune.

    Maybe other people will be moved to try a comping track. I'm thinking it might be interesting.

    Bass and drums are mostly from IRealPro, but I added a barely audible percussion sound. If you can hear it, it sounds like your car needs a valve job, but, on the positive side, you can't really hear it.
    Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 05-16-2021 at 02:23 PM.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

    Rag, its funny you say you don't hear and blues here, because your bluesiest licks were definitely your most convincing.
    I don't hear blues at all except at the end, and even then it's just a sound. It's a bossa/samba, not a blues tune. It's about waves rolling in on the beach, not oppression. It may be based on the Bird form but that's irrelevant, they're just chords.

    Jobim doesn't play Wave as blues, nor does Oscar Peterson, nor Herbie Hancock, nor Hank Jones, nor Joe Pass, nor any Brazilian performers. I'm not even sure that that end phrase is meant to be blues per se, I think it's just an interesting run with a flat note in it!

    To really stick the boot in (!) I thought what you were playing was beautiful - lovely feel and bluesy sounds, honestly. But I don't think it had anything to do with Jobim's Wave. Sorry :-)

    But, you know... whatever

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Lol, in the time it took to record this and upload it, Christian made his post about going from major to minor blues...which is exactly what I do on the first A.

    Its not a "blues," but it's absolutely a blues form, which is great for orienting yourself. And there's plenty of blues in it.



    I'll take a listen to everyone else tonight, didn't want to be influenced
    Jeff, is it easy? You make it look effortless. What can I say? Sounds like something on the radio. Pro playing.

  8. #57

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    Thanks for a your feedback (pardon the pun) guys! It's appreciated very much. There's no better way of learning then to roll up your sleeves and get stuck in. So here I am.

    Mr B, you're take is brilliant. What were you thinking playing through the changes?

    You asked me what my bag is and the answer is very mixed

    I started with the usual blues and rock played with pick then a few years ago I did the classical thing and got my grades etc. Recently I've been busking playing chord melody stuff with fingers ( pop, classical and Autumn Leaves and Misty). So I haven't played with a pick seriously for a while.

    Anyhow I know my pentatonics a bit so I pulled them out for this take while still following the changes.

    There's more of me in it but I can see that I'm not in it completely. It's progress anyway.

    Rag, there's more space and chord tones too.

    Btw my first example was full of the extensions that you talked about but perhaps too much which is why you maybe didn't hear the changes.

    Anyhow I might try a comping take if I have time later today.

    Edit. Just to say that my audio tone isn't great. What I'm hearing in the room is a beautiful warm sound (Ibanez AFJ85 into a Vox AC15c1)


  9. #58

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    Family just getting up so managed a super quick comping take.

    One run through then this take.

    Have a great day y'all


  10. #59

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    This tune really lends itself for guitar accompaniment, so I did a split video. A challenge on Brazilian tunes for me is to try to play simpler, more melodically, with less mainstream jazz vocabulary, cause they do use their own language, which is extremely sophisticated rhythmically, and simpler harmonically.

    I once watched a clinic by Nelson Faria where he demonstrated that beautifully. At some point I visited Brazil and there I kind of got it (after seeing how people would dance in the streets if there was any music around..)

    Last edited by Alter; 05-16-2021 at 06:56 AM.

  11. #60

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    Wonderful and very diverse takes by all of you!

  12. #61

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    Alter, beautiful take and tone. I could listen to that all day. I love how balanced the two guitars by keeping the rhythm dry and adding the reverb to the lead, very effective.

    Liarspoker, that's more like it! You sound much more at home there...definitely don't abandon who you are for playing jazz.

    I think if you look at your earlier posts and do a little self editing and rephrase them more like your last, you've got an "etude" over the A sections of this tune. Vary the phrase length a bit as you go, and you're on your way.

    For the record, I think writing out solos when starting out (or at anytime a tune is tricky) is great practice.

  13. #62

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    Wave is one of those tunes I envision as the song playing on repeat on the elevator to hell. It’s a splendid composition but not my preferred choice of listening or playing. I threw my take into the lot, I loved the conversation regarding blues/not blues, that’s what really made this song interesting!

  14. #63

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    I haven't touched or hardly even thought about this tune since we did it in the Conti study group. So today I picked it up and gave it a shot. Much here to offer advice on, I'm sure!


  15. #64

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    I still say this is an astonishingly difficult tune to solo. It's very hard to make the solo notes correspond to the background harmonies effectively.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    I still say this is an astonishingly difficult tune to solo. It's very hard to make the solo notes correspond to the background harmonies.
    I agree. My temptation, and I succumb every time, is to just arpeggiate it to death. I have not been able to create a nice, long-lined melodic solo. I'm like you, the "blues" analogy, though it makes technical sense, doesn't help me at all with the tune.

  17. #66

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    Absolutely. I think there places where a blues sound can be effective but certainly not everywhere.

    I don't like playing blues over bossa tunes. Charlie Byrd used to do it and I always thought it sounded as if he were cheating, not knowing how to do bossa properly. Joe Pass, on the other hand, never used blues licks over bossa (as far as I know) and his versions of bossa tunes are wonderful...

    ... except his solo version of Wave which is really not very good so I'm not even going to post it. But here he is doing Meditation :-)


  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz
    Very nice, TJ! Guitar sounds mellower than on some of your other clips.

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Always enjoy your chord soloing, lawson. Probably it's just me but I think you got a bit busy towards the end...

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Very nice, TJ! Guitar sounds mellower than on some of
    Thanks, I’ve really been working hard on relaxing. I can see just how hard I hit submission to submission and getting feedback really helps to make corrections. This Ibanez has lighter strings so I’m forced to play smoother and my hope is to carry that softer touch to my archtops which have heavier strings. Ultimately I’d love to play more relaxed, comfortable and lyrical. It’s so much harder than learning scales and arps!!

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker

    Edit. Just to say that my audio tone isn't great. What I'm hearing in the room is a beautiful warm sound (Ibanez AFJ85 into a Vox AC15c1)
    That's one of the big challenges with recording an archtop on a phone -- the phone picks up the un-amped guitar tone disproportionately loudly due to automatic gain control and compression in the phone.

  21. #70

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    Hi folkses - here's mine:



    Happy to get any tips on doing better. I'm not overly comfortable over the F#7 - B7 - E7 progression. Outlining the chords doesn't sound very good to my ears...

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Hi folkses - here's mine:



    Happy to get any tips on doing better. I'm not overly comfortable over the F#7 - B7 - E7 progression. Outlining the chords doesn't sound very good to my ears...
    Dominant sevenths are rarely the most interesting sounding chords although I’d get really used to finding the 3rds and 7ths. You could try dim 7th chords built on the thirds, A#o7, D#o7 and G#o7, or m6 (or m(maj)7) on the 5th, C#m, F#m and Bm, at least for starters.

    Heres a slightly different approach to soloing on the tune:

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Dominant sevenths are rarely the most interesting sounding chords although I’d get really used to finding the 3rds and 7ths. You could try dim 7th chords built on the thirds, A#o7, D#o7 and G#o7, or m6 (or m(maj)7) on the 5th, C#m, F#m and Bm, at least for starters.

    Heres a slightly different approach to soloing on the tune:
    Thanks Christian - I will definitely try that!

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Hi folkses - here's mine:



    Happy to get any tips on doing better. I'm not overly comfortable over the F#7 - B7 - E7 progression. Outlining the chords doesn't sound very good to my ears...
    At the risk of reigniting the Great Wave is/not a Blues War ... think about it as though it were a D blues for a moment. Ignore F#7 for a moment (I'll come back to it). B7 is VI7, E7 is II7. Bb7 -> A7 is V7. So whatever you would do over that part of a D7 blues, you can do here. So then what's F#7? You can think of it as a rootless D7 (i.e., I7) or as part of backcycling to B7 (i.e., V of VI) . You can also just hold an F# (and/or noodle around in its vicinity) over the F7|B7 change. Some charts write |F#7| B7 | as |F#13 F#7b13 | B9 B7b9 |, which gives you a chromatic line to play. I actually also think it sounds fine just to arpeggiate the chords. I tend to think of the E7 as a 7#9, and I don't really like the sound of a G# there.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    At the risk of reigniting the Great Wave is/not a Blues War ... think about it as though it were a D blues for a moment. Ignore F#7 for a moment (I'll come back to it). B7 is VI7, E7 is II7. Bb7 -> A7 is V7. So whatever you would do over that part of a D7 blues, you can do here. So then what's F#7? You can think of it as a rootless D7 (i.e., I7) or as part of backcycling to B7 (i.e., V of VI) . You can also just hold an F# (and/or noodle around in its vicinity) over the F7|B7 change. Some charts write |F#7| B7 | as |F#13 F#7b13 | B9 B7b9 |, which gives you a chromatic line to play. I actually also think it sounds fine just to arpeggiate the chords. I tend to think of the E7 as a 7#9, and I don't really like the sound of a G# there.
    It works perfectly well to do this. Just make sure you play the major blues scale over the major bit.

    Re E7; Mark Levine thinks you’re lazy lol. But I don’t care. Sometimes minor over 7#9 is the right sound. the Masters did it all the time.

    Also; the melody. Look at what the melody does.

    Anywya a great Peter Bernstein quote; ‘chords aren’t your children’. You can play favourites, and ignore some of them...

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    At the risk of reigniting the Great Wave is/not a Blues War ... think about it as though it were a D blues for a moment. Ignore F#7 for a moment (I'll come back to it). B7 is VI7, E7 is II7. Bb7 -> A7 is V7. So whatever you would do over that part of a D7 blues, you can do here. So then what's F#7? You can think of it as a rootless D7 (i.e., I7) or as part of backcycling to B7 (i.e., V of VI) . You can also just hold an F# (and/or noodle around in its vicinity) over the F7|B7 change. Some charts write |F#7| B7 | as |F#13 F#7b13 | B9 B7b9 |, which gives you a chromatic line to play. I actually also think it sounds fine just to arpeggiate the chords. I tend to think of the E7 as a 7#9, and I don't really like the sound of a G# there.
    If the F#7 to B7 is troublesome, my first suggestion is to strum the chords and scat sing until you get a line you like.

    If you want to proceed from theory, I'd suggest considering that the F#7 is F#mixolydian. That's the notes of B major.

    Then, the B7 is B mixolydian. That's also the notes of B major, except you're going to lower the A# to A.

    That will work.

    If you think F#13 to F#7b13 and then B9 to B7b9, then you've got a guide tone line D# D C# C.

    You can combine that with the A# to A movement and you're outlining the chord changes quite nicely.

    For more notes, pick any that are common to both F# mixo and B mixo. Or, for the theory-averse, lotta sharps, if you clam, move a half step in either direction.

    On the other issue ... form is a 12 bar blues, but it doesn't end up sounding like a 12 bar blues, so, to me, it shouldn't be played as if it was a 12 bar blues. Make melody.