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Lots of great advice here, thanks everybody!
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04-29-2021 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by djg
one question: by 'these sounds' do you mean specifically IV chord material played over II-V? Or do you mean that in addition to other conventions, like I assume playing II-V over II-V happens a lot too, no?
My jazz teacher years back pointed out, like you said, that it's not about matching specific scales to specific chords, but more about building tension and releasing it in one way or another in a way that syncs or plays off of the passing harmony. In this vein he suggested just starting simply with lines based on V - I, and experimenting with different sounds to use over the V. So my thinking at the time was (and this is where I left off... a long time ago), start with practicing dominant licks leading into the tonic, and once you're good at that start thinking about acknowledging II. Not sure anymore if this would be the best place to start...
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Originally Posted by Evml
Very simply, but beautiful tune, with use of 2-5-1 and as the song moves along, stays with the 2-5-1 approach but with variations E.g. m7b5 to Dom7#5.
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Originally Posted by Evml
the biggest favor you can do for yourself: dont overthink. do the work. it's not rocket science. it's more of a grind. so to stay motivated you have to follow your insticts, i.e. you have to enjoy the grind. that is why plans like: 15 min arp, 15 min rep., 15 min reading, etc, seldom work. practice what you like and be reasonable about the expected outcome.
follow members like grahambop or dutchbopper, both dedicated amateurs with the usual blues/rock background who can play and thus have an informed opinion how an amateur can grow to performance level.
disclaimer: i'm a teacher but i'm here only for fun. i got a nice teaching gig and am not fishing for students (or accepting any for that matter). if you want, you can thank me for the info by actually making use of it.
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Originally Posted by Gabor
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Originally Posted by Evml
There is a graveyard as long and wide as the ocean where lie the remains of those who wished to make the perilous journey from rock to Jazz. Most never make it far past the gates. Those with a map and some help get a little further. How many rock players do you know of that made it across? Do you think that a 30 year old Eric Clapton could become like a (22 year old!) Pat Martino, with only 10 short years of gun-to-the-head practice from where he was as a player at 30? You say "of course", I say probably not...
I sincerely hope for your sake that I'm wrong, and would not want to put you off such a journey, but having unrealistic expectations will just leave you discouraged after not too long. Better, I think, to expect it to be the hardest thing you will ever undertake from the outset, that way you will cope better with the ever increasing realisations of just what it takes to be "good" in the eyes of your jazz guitar pro peers.
Just start it, and see where it goes, but please, do it with a good teacher if you want to shave many, many years off such a journey.
On the other hand, if you just wanna learn a handful of jazz lines and a few useful chord grips to impress your friends with, then anyone with a good ear should be able to memorise a dozen solos from Wes, Pass, Martino etc inside a year or so. Your rock pals won't have a clue that you don't actually know what you're doing ...
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
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04-29-2021, 02:14 PM #83Dutchbopper GuestOriginally Posted by djg
DB
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
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Originally Posted by djg
Originally Posted by djg
I've begun transcribing the rest of Wes' Tune Up solo. I'm going to try and internalize some of those movements keeping in mind he's thinking of it as IV chord material, with a half step drop in the last measure. It already feels like very meaningful practice.
Your advice has been really helpful, I appreciate it.
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Originally Posted by Evml
learn the two licks. not more. understand how you can fit them into the progression. if the progression gives you trouble: practice the two licks over II-V-I descending in three keys. you asked for a practice tune. "afternoon in paris" if "tune up" is too hard for you (it shouldnt).
keep it real. document what you do. write down the progression of your practice tune, ask if folks here agree with your chords. record your playing. join the jam groups here.
create a soundcloud or youtube. post a vid of you applying those two licks. do not try to learn more material. if you do you've missed the point. s/o here has the bruce lee quote as a sig:
i do not fear the man who has practiced 10000 moves once but the man who has practiced one move 10000 times. get this tatooed.
what you want to practice: play these two licks over anything you know. all the tunes, all the progressions. not more licks, more applications.
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Learn songs.
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Originally Posted by djg
hard to do on JGO
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Originally Posted by djg
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I say join our weekly jam.
Hell, everybody should join.
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Originally Posted by djg
You know, you may be interested in hobbyist advice, that’s fine but I’m not and never have been. Might as well tell someone about trout fishing hot spots while not practicing.
im an academic, Dutchbopper says you are too. Great. tell us about time management, and tell us about “The Bridge”.
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Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar
Last edited by Evml; 04-30-2021 at 12:06 AM.
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Originally Posted by djg
So yeah, ignore my pile of dung, as you were ...
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Originally Posted by Evml
Whatever gets you to playing some nice little jazz blues effectively by 7/1/21 is good for me. How does that timeline work for you?
Just remember, Jazz was born in New Orleans whore houses. It’s a party music. It’s about drinkin, hollerin, smokin and screwin.
I rest on my earlier statements.
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Originally Posted by Evml
edit: here is an example of the point i'm trying to make about how the jazz language is practiced. this is the real world where you need good ears, experience with the process and good reflexes to throw back lines and licks. i was there. edit2: this vid is even better:
Last edited by djg; 04-30-2021 at 08:36 AM.
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Originally Posted by djg
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by djg
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I think I get it!!
where there's a 7th chord, the lick will work in the key for which that chord is the V. If that's the idea, I can see this opening up doors for sure.
Just want to make sure, the A7 in bars 13 and 16 I'm assuming replaces a Cmin (II of Bbmaj) as it's relative major, right?
Cmin / F7 / BbMaj / BbMaj / A7 / F7 / BbMaj / A7
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Originally Posted by Evml
2:05 Fmaj7 up and down over Dm7 G7. Gmaj7 up and down over Em7 A7
the very first two licks. Gbmaj7 over Ebm7 Ab7. Bmaj7 over Abm7 Db7
0:09 Gbmaj over Ebm7 Ab7
the two first licks of the melody Ebmaj7 up and down over Cm7
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