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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    For giggles, a tribute to our pal ragman

    Nice and slow, reverby acoustic, trying to be melodic. Fun
    Very nice and lyrical, Jeff.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

    I hear long strings of rapid eighth notes in my mind, but I can't play that fast.

    It's hard to construct a melodic line that doesn't restart every 4 bars, but I tried.
    Well done neverthe less, rp!

    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    Make the boyfriend take a chorus. Even if he doesn’t play. Show him who’s boss.

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    For giggles, a tribute to our pal ragman

    Nice and slow, reverby acoustic, trying to be melodic. Fun

    Thank you, Jeff, quite delightful :-)

    (I don't think the kind of guitar matters much, really, when all's said and done, it's the feel, innit?)

  4. #53

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    I do want to say something... at the risk of being long-winded.

    This is the Vinson version, very fast.



    I find it quite interesting. I think what is 'melodic' in jazz is different to 'melodic' in less esoteric music.

    Small kids will respond to simple tunes like 'Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star' and all that. But stick in some b9s, #9s and b5s and that sort of thing, and it probably wouldn't attract them greatly.

    Listening to what Vinson is doing, we can say certain things.

    a) It sounds 'jazzy' as opposed to other types of music. It's not simple melodic stuff.

    b) However, even jazz-melodic implies something scalar. It contains more arpeggios than straight music (I'm just calling it that) but to be melodic it must also have running lines in it. Whether they correspond to actual set scales is something else but they must have a continuous feel to them.

    c) What Vinson is playing, like a lot of jazz, doesn't quite fit the chords - but it works. I think that's the point with a lot of jazz, that it fits but not quite.

    d) But it's HOW it doesn't fit that matters. It fits in its own way. It's not all over the place and just wrong to the ear.

    e) Quite what the answer to that is I'm not sure.

    Incidentally, as I keep saying, it doesn't have to be fast. Here's a version by Wes. His single-note lines don't quite 'fit' either. He's a master at it.


  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

    It's hard to construct a melodic line that doesn't restart every 4 bars
    Well, you've got two bars of each M7 so there's room for a pick-up into the next ii-V (if required, probably not every time). The end of the form is easier because both end and start in D.

    But I know what you mean, especially at speed.

  6. #55

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    Yeah, Wes saved his uptempo take on Tune Up (although this still isn't UP up) for six string bass

  7. #56

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    Yes, he did both, plus other takes up to nine or something. Obviously not an easy one for him unless there are other reasons. But it's quite interesting he took such a fast tune and did eight slow takes on it.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar


    I hear long strings of rapid eighth notes in my mind, but I can't play that fast.

    It's hard to construct a melodic line that doesn't restart every 4 bars, but I tried.

    That's the Comins GCS-1 through a Boss ME80, to add reverb. Then to a Little Jazz with the bass all the way down. Mids and highs at about noon. Reverb at 8o'clock. Backing track from an old phone into a Roland KB150. All right into a second, newer, phone.
    I liked this a lot. It sounds like you're basically doing key-centered playing, which is perfect for this set of ii-V-I lines, and you have some nice phrases througought.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I thought about calligraphy. This is an artist with one brush, one color, and that color is black. Yet, the calligrapher makes art too. It's not an oil painting, but it's art and people appreciate it.

    I recall a great LA based saxophonist, Robert Kyle, at a jam. He played an absolutely killer solo and I realized somewhere along the line that he didn't play a lot of notes and he didn't play anything "outside". What he did do was make great melody with great time feel. He made you want to dance and scream.

    Then I thought about scat singing, which I've posted about before. It seems to me that your scat singing is very close to your heart. Can players really scat eighth notes at 260bpm? Or are they piecing things together in a different way? My conclusion is that it's a combination of jazz vocabulary and a certain amount of new material. Done well, it's fantastic, but, I wondered, Robert Kyle's solo could easily have been scat sung. Maybe I should think about that.

    Jim Hall is my ATF. But, his slow stuff. I didn't enjoy his fast playing nearly as much. I like Carlos Santana - he does it with melody, time and tone. He's no daredevil harmonically and his best stuff isn't particularly fast. Wes is as melodic as anyone and doesn't sound fast (although it seems faster when you actually try to play his stuff).

    So, I concluded that I should try to develop a style that makes the most of what I can hear and play -- and not keep trying to do everything. I still ended up with more than enough to work on.

    ......
    This is very insightful. I’m coupling this with John’s advice regarding how to get a better feel. So much of our progress really depends on our psychological discipline, framed from how I glean what your saying. I’m always trying to stuff that extra note in, this always throws me off. If I can just have the discipline to say no more notes are needed and rely on the actual melody being created I may improve my feel. That’s kind of like saying “no” to the donuts that are lying in the box box before you, easier said than done.

  10. #59

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    Yea Rick... you have a very realistic approach, I really like it. ( I also like your playing).

    The tempo thing, well most talk is just good old BS. Right, I mean the best way to learn how to do something... is learn from someone who can't do it.... (had to add... obviously I'm joking)

    The time thing, both Macro and Micro is always about Pulse. Even Lage's counting of time wasn't very good but when he plays... he creates a pulse which fills space and points of attack or target beats become easy to see, hear and feel.

    You want to be able to play jazz at faster tempos... you need good technique on your instruments. I've been saying this very simple thing for over a decade on this forum... and very few seem to ever get it. It's almost like... if I just keep playing.... I'll eventually have chops. ( most guitarist who put in a year of technical organized practice... get their chops together. You still need to have something to say, but at least you'll be able to say it.)

    What you play....... isn't how or what you hear. Almost anyone can hear incredible music at any tempo. You can't play what you can't technically organize on your instrument.

    Technical skills help one play the slowest tempos by being able to subdivide and create Feels.

    I'm getting a few of my guitars back this week, new frets and all the other BS. Can't wait to post some of these tunes, although I think I'll start a different thread and also break down... "possible approaches" of how to play them... How to get from.... being able to just get through a tune... to actually playing it, taking the music somewhere by choice, your choice.

    Nice to see and hear all the posts, still a great thread.

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I liked this a lot. It sounds like you're basically doing key-centered playing, which is perfect for this set of ii-V-I lines, and you have some nice phrases througought.
    Thanks. Just for the sake of discussion, I'll say what I recall about what I was thinking.

    I tried focusing on chord tones in earlier takes and I thought it sounded too simplistic. I tried it with tritone subs and I wasn't happy either.

    So, as you discerned, I went with tonal centers in order to avoid clams.

    I began by thinking, "make a strong melodic statement" and I tried to focus on that throughout. That meant I wasn't going to play a lot of notes, because I can't make good melody at high speed.

    I also was aware of not wanting to play 4 bar phrases, so I made an effort (minimally successful) to start my phrases in bars 4 and 8. That way, for example, the shift from Dmaj to Dm7 would occur in the middle of the phrase. To my ear, it's different than finishing up a tidy 4 bar phrase and then starting over a whole step down.

    And, finally, I had the song Strike Up the Band (recorded on a Tal Farlow album I had) in mind for some reason and I tried to phrase with it here and there. I quoted it very briefly. I sometimes think about a different song and use the rhythm of that song's melody in my improv as a way of forcing myself out of the well worn ruts.

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    The tempo thing, well most talk is just good old BS. Right, I mean the best way to learn how to do something... is learn from someone who can't do it.... (had to add... obviously I'm joking)
    Hey! I resemble that remark! (Not entirely joking; I rarely give any sort of technique advice because my own is pretty limited, but sometimes I do say stuff that I should probably leave to people who know better what they're talking about.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    You want to be able to play jazz at faster tempos... you need good technique on your instruments. I've been saying this very simple thing for over a decade on this forum... and very few seem to ever get it. It's almost like... if I just keep playing.... I'll eventually have chops. ( most guitarist who put in a year of technical organized practice... get their chops together. You still need to have something to say, but at least you'll be able to say it.)
    I think a fair number of us actually get it and think you're right about this. But for a lot of us part-timers, putting in a year of technical practice would come at the expense of, say, learning more tunes or playing with other people. The best we can do is incorporate some degree of technical practice into our routines and hope for incremental improvements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    What you play....... isn't how or what you hear. Almost anyone can hear incredible music at any tempo. You can't play what you can't technically organize on your instrument.

    Technical skills help one play the slowest tempos by being able to subdivide and create Feels.
    I'm not sure that I agree almost anyone can hear incredible music at any tempo. But for sure, hearing it is not sufficient for playing it. Hearing does not create technique, Organized practice does (stares sheepishly at feet ...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    I'm getting a few of my guitars back this week, new frets and all the other BS. Can't wait to post some of these tunes, although I think I'll start a different thread and also break down... "possible approaches" of how to play them... How to get from.... being able to just get through a tune... to actually playing it, taking the music somewhere by choice, your choice.

    Nice to see and hear all the posts, still a great thread.
    Looking forward to it.

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 04-17-2021 at 05:37 PM.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    I think a fair number of us actually get it and think you're right about this. But for a lot of us part-timers, putting in a year of technical practice would come at the expense of, say, learning more tunes or playing with other people. The best we can do is incorporate some degree of technical practice into our routines and hope for incremental improvements.
    Nails it for me. Helps to have realistic expectations given those limitations, too. Which I really don't, for myself, but that's my personality.

  14. #63

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    Hello chaps. Rough and ready, couple of quick (fun) takes - there was a plethora of tracks on YT for this tune. I wasn't really feeling the altered scale on the V, so pretty straight stuff.




  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    The bananas can't be too green, to use a terrible analogy.
    I don't know what that means, but no matter. I'm adopting it as my personal motto and standard response to anything anyone says to me.

    John
    "The bananas can't be too green"

  16. #65

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    Nice fluidity, Ronstuff. Great stream of well-executed ideas.

    I like the tone of your Heritage, Jeff. Wondering how you record because I'm not hearing any discernible plinking. Killer rhythmic feel.

    John A, good to see you really going for it. Dug it a lot.

    I didn't hear either of the acoustic takes of you guys.

    rpjazzguitar, you certainly know how to find the right notes!

  17. #66

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    So I guess I can't add anything to the table then.

    Just don't mince my words about technique:

    Technique is crucial, that's a given. Yes, there are mechanics and all. But I think we often under estimate how much of our physical technique starts with our ears. Aimee Nolte has a video where she talks about playing fast. She said something like, "you want to play faster, then you gotta listen to a bunch of master musicians playing fast." No amount of Troy Grady will totally remedy up tempo playing if it ain't thoroughly anchored in your ears first.

    This is getting a little ridiculous. I guess the teachers that shared this advice were wrong as well.

    I mean, my teachers past and present can't possibly know jack shite because their playing ain't worth a listen. Maybe I should ask Wynton Marsalis, Frank Vignola, Larry Goldenings, and the like about the caliber of playing that my teachers bring to the table.

    I see a new jam. I get excited. I post my take. I get constructive criticism. I roll with it because I dig the community.

    I offer my two cents and all of a sudden, I am a charlatan.

    Reg, I do dig your playing. That said, who made you King of Everything?

    How come I'm not having these arguments with Jonathan Stout or DaShigsta on the forum? I've never seen them call anyone else's process or advice into question? Where are Jonathan Stout's fingerings? I almost had lessons with Jonathan when I lived in LA. I would love to study with DaShigsta as well. And I've had a lesson or two with some other lions young and old of JGF as well. So...

    A King needs legitimacy? So why are we making Reg king of JGF?
    Last edited by PickingMyEars; 04-17-2021 at 08:51 PM.

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
    So I guess I can't add anything to the table then.

    Just don't mince my words about technique:

    Technique is crucial, that's a given. Yes, there are mechanics and all. But I think we often under estimate how much of our physical technique starts with our ears. Aimee Nolte has a video where she talks about playing fast. She said something like, "you want to play faster, then you gotta listen to a bunch of master musicians playing fast." No amount of Troy Grady will totally remedy up tempo playing if it ain't thoroughly anchored in your ears first.

    This is getting a little ridiculous. I guess the teachers that shared this advice were wrong as well.

    I mean, my teachers past and present can't possibly know jack shite because their playing ain't worth a listen. Maybe I should ask Wynton Marsalis, Frank Vignola, Larry Goldenings, and the like about the caliber of playing that my teachers bring to the table.

    I see a new jam. I get excited. I post my take. I get constructive criticism. I roll with it because I dig the community.

    I offer my two cents and all of a sudden, I am a charlatan.

    Reg, I do dig your playing. That said, who made you King of Everything?
    Chill man. That stuff you shared is great.

    I feel like I started this, so I'll speak up. All of this stuff about hearing bigger segments of music to handle fast tempos is good stuff. But that's not my problem. I can "hang" on fast tunes. I'm not intimidated by them, and my time doesn't suffer on them. I already have a dozen ways to "cope" with a tune that's faster than my comfort zone.

    What I want to do is work on my picking, so if I hear a line of picked 8ths at 260 I can do it. It has everything to do with mechanics, and being lazy when I was younger. I just have to put in some fucking work, that's all.

    Sometimes it's about deeper, more macro shit. My situation isn't. Its about putting in work and not being a lazy guitar player like I have for nearly 30 years.

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C

    I like the tone of your Heritage, Jeff. Wondering how you record because I'm not hearing any discernible plinking. Killer rhythmic feel.
    Thanks, having a good time feel is of utmost importance to me.

    So for recording, use a Yamaha THR 10ii. I put it right on the tabletop, and proo my phone up against something just a few inches in front of it (a beer works great)

    I try to make sure my guitar is about 3 feet away. The amp is set just a bit louder than speaking volume (about halfway up)

    This seems to capture the amp mostly with very little plink from the guitar.

    Should mention too, with flatwounds, particularly old ones like I like, the 575 does not have a ton of acoustic volume. My laminate Godin Kingpin, for example, is much louder unplugged.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Thanks, having a good time feel is of utmost importance to me.

    So for recording, use a Yamaha THR 10ii. I put it right on the tabletop, and proo my phone up against something just a few inches in front of it (a beer works great)

    I try to make sure my guitar is about 3 feet away. The amp is set just a bit louder than speaking volume (about halfway up)

    This seems to capture the amp mostly with very little plink from the guitar.

    Should mention too, with flatwounds, particularly old ones like I like, the 575 does not have a ton of acoustic volume. My laminate Godin Kingpin, for example, is much louder unplugged.
    How are you capturing the backing track?

    John

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C View Post
    Hello chaps. Rough and ready, couple of quick (fun) takes - there was a plethora of tracks on YT for this tune. I wasn't really feeling the altered scale on the V, so pretty straight stuff.
    Good stuff Peter - I liked the staccato approach, although keeping it up for the length of time you did can be a bit too much...

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    For giggles, a tribute to our pal ragman

    Nice and slow, reverby acoustic, trying to be melodic. Fun

    I am always amazed how cool could be a flattop sound, when a jazz musician picks/articulates it. Even coolest, richest and more jazz than a over high cut "standard jazz" sound.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Yeah, Wes saved his uptempo take on Tune Up (although this still isn't UP up) for six string bass
    dunno if this plays in the US. wes in indianapolis mid 50s playing tune up.


  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    How are you capturing the backing track?

    John
    Ah yes, that'd be a helpful bit of info, wouldn't it?

    The track is playing through the same amp.

  25. #74

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    So here's my modest contribution - in the spirit of the threads another first take. I came up with the arrangement (if you want to call it that) for the head a couple of years ago and still like it. It fills up the sound at slower tempos. As always: any suggestions and comments welcome.


  26. #75

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    yea some more cool posts... Just a little more on Tempo and technique. No one needs or has to do anything, it's always cool to just play, enjoy and have fun. Disclaimer... I'm no one, just a musician.

    But I would think it's just very obvious that... maybe an analogy, You want to take a fast car on a fast course... you need some driving skills or your going to crash and burn.

    Ears, hearing and all the rest is very important, if not the most important... at least it can be. But when you get ahead of yourself, you develop bad, or at least not good habits that usually don't have the best results etc...

    We've had a year of not playing gigs etc... how many more tunes, jam sessions, getting together with friends etc...
    Have you improved? (just a note... I quit playing for 8 or 9 months, loved it.)

    A simple practice plan... can you play,

    Any chord... two octave arpeggio... starting on each chord tone from 6th string up to 1st string (chord and inversions) Start slow to get a plan then... play faster than you can and try and stay in tempo with mistakes.

    Any chord... two octaves arpeggio, same format but with all extensions.

    Then the same thing with scales...Some use the three minors as organization for generating the 21 scales.

    Using whatever picking approach you choose... just be consistent and with some coherent organization... so that it will repeat. That's it.... within 6 months you'll start to have some chops. Your ears will work because your training them to hear basic musical tools. I apologize for talking too much... Next pot will be just about playing.

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    yea some more cool posts... I apologize for talking too much (quote edited for convenience).. Next post will be just about playing.
    Talking too much? Absolutely not, Reg! Some great advice and I (we) really appreciate it!

  28. #77

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    TOMMO, great sound, nice playing!
    PeterC, if that's what smooth jazz sounded like, I'd listen to it

  29. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    For giggles, a tribute to our pal ragman

    Nice and slow, reverby acoustic, trying to be melodic. Fun

    Some players get great tone from anything. You have that ability or gift. The playing sounds great, great time feel, interesting harmony within the lines. Great playing overall.

  30. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    TOMMO, great sound, nice playing!
    PeterC, if that's what smooth jazz sounded like, I'd listen to it
    Thank you Jeff!

  31. #80

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    Reg, for people doing a full time job outside of music, it's all about prioritizing any free time coming our way. If you're a pro / married to a lawyer, you may be practicing 8 hours a day and if you are, you better be good! A guy here got pretty upset when I thought his playing on a particular track wasn't up to scratch for a pro.

    Regarding speed, you personally come across as pretty hyperactive in your videos, which is cool by me, though I remember reading some posts in YT "expressing the desire" for you to slow down a tad. A lot of people function at lower r.p.m. You're a great player in my book, by the way. Post something!

    So, what should a player like me do with his 8 hours a month practice? (<Not exaggerating, some months). I'm not a trained jazzer, so I could do more experimentation with altered scales, tritone subs etc and see if they add to my soloing vocabulary in a positive way. Probably would. I could learn a couple more standards, do some transcribing etc etc. Or, I can work on my own music: apart from 5 "finished" demos, I currently have another 10 or so tunes waiting to be developed and arranged. Anyway, I'm a participator by nature, so I just throw out whatever I hear in these jams; I'm not easily embarrassed, though I might take my contribution to this one down if it bothers me too much.

    Two-octave arpeggios? Yep, and I recently stumbled on a short clip by a guy called Mitch Chmara entitled "Don't let the chord get in your way" LOL which looks interesting.

    Jeff, I think the plink is more down to my Ibanez's acoustic projection than string type, in spite of being a lam top, plus natural room reverb. Smooth jazz? OMG!!

    Tommo, you're absolutely right. So, given time, I would record into a DAW and fade out after a couple of choruses.

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    I think a fair number of us actually get it and think you're right about this. But for a lot of us part-timers, putting in a year of technical practice would come at the expense of, say, learning more tunes or playing with other people. The best we can do is incorporate some degree of technical practice into our routines and hope for incremental improvements.


    John
    For some of us a year of technical practice would likely cost a year of salary! I have, at the very best, an hour a day to do everything on the instrument that I do. Work, family, land, horses, fences, barn, pasture, family claim most of my time. I sneak in 10-15 minute moments to play and learn tunes and try to learns some vocabulary or technique... then it's back to the other stuff.

  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    A simple practice plan... can you play,

    Any chord... two octave arpeggio... starting on each chord tone from 6th string up to 1st string (chord and inversions) Start slow to get a plan then... play faster than you can and try and stay in tempo with mistakes.

    Any chord... two octaves arpeggio, same format but with all extensions.

    Then the same thing with scales...Some use the three minors as organization for generating the 21 scales.

    Using whatever picking approach you choose... just be consistent and with some coherent organization... so that it will repeat. That's it.... within 6 months you'll start to have some chops. Your ears will work because your training them to hear basic musical tools. I apologize for talking too much... Next pot will be just about playing.
    I think I could invest about 2-3 hours a week on this. So just to be clear, and using F as my starting point, I’m doing the 3 note major and minor arpeggio for two octaves, all three positions. Then I would do what? The M7, m7, Dom7, and m7b5 for all four of their inversions. That’s probably about all I would have time for. I’ll give it a 6 month trial along with some additional scales (I already practice at least once a week 7 scales). I’ll do F on Monday then Bb on Tuesday, all through the cycle. 15 minutes a day. This would mean I skip learning a new tune, which I’ll pick back up in 6 months. We’ll see what happens!

  34. #83

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    I took another crack at it, this time with one of the faster backing tracks.



    This time I just plugged my computer into the aux input of my Roland MicroCube along with my guitar and recorded both with my phone. Not the best sound (more of the guitar's unplugged sound than I like), and it annoyed my wife considerably (which I'm told is a bad thing ...). But definitely simpler than my Garageband + Quicktime + iMovie method.

    So speaking to the whole playing fast/technique question, I thought I played this fairly cleanly. But at this tempo there's more in the way of autopilot straight 1/8's, less in the way of interesting ideas, and I can't do much with 1/16ths. Harmonized lines would be mainly whole and half notes (didn't actually play any here). Mr. B should be pleased with my flirting-with-disaster picking. Definitely need more organized technique practice.

    Tommo: Very nice take, I think your best so far. You played like you're comfortable with the tune.

    PeterC: yeah, I'd say that rhythmic bag is more your thing than straightahead/swing. Your phrasing works well here and you seem more comfortable and at home. Sounds really good.
    Last edited by John A.; 04-18-2021 at 10:35 PM.

  35. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    So speaking to the whole playing fast/technique question, I thought I played this fairly cleanly. But at this tempo there's more in the way of autopilot straight 1/8's, less in the way of interesting ideas, and I can't do much with 1/16ths. Harmonized lines would be mainly whole and half notes (didn't actually play any here). Mr. B should be pleased with my flirting-with-disaster picking. Definitely need more organized technique practice.
    Yeah! I struggle to play anything worth playing well below this tempo, so please take my comments with that in mind. No advice—just observation. Immediately noticeable to me was that, overall, your time felt more solid on the fast runs than the slower, longer-held notes. Probably something to do with the same phenomenon I’ve noticed where it’s easier to keep time when I subdivide into triplets when playing over 4/4 at slow or ballad tempos.

    And man, I love that seat-of-the-pants thing I’ve been hearing from you in general when the tempo gets cooking. Reminds me in a way of when you hear a piano player swinging really hard at slow tempo and it feels like he’s gonna fall off the piano bench but always manages to bring it back right on schedule. Nice work!

  36. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    I took another crack at it, this time with one of the faster backing tracks.
    Kudos for attempting this - would give me lots of trouble but inspires me to give it a shot (without those fast lines) - Well done, John!

    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    Tommo: Very nice take, I think your best so far. You played like you're comfortable with the tune.
    Thanky you John. I'm fairly familiar with Tune Up - great tune to work on ii - V - I vocabulary.

  37. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz View Post
    I think I could invest about 2-3 hours a week on this. So just to be clear, and using F as my starting point, I’m doing the 3 note major and minor arpeggio for two octaves, all three positions. Then I would do what? The M7, m7, Dom7, and m7b5 for all four of their inversions. That’s probably about all I would have time for. I’ll give it a 6 month trial along with some additional scales (I already practice at least once a week 7 scales). I’ll do F on Monday then Bb on Tuesday, all through the cycle. 15 minutes a day. This would mean I skip learning a new tune, which I’ll pick back up in 6 months. We’ll see what happens!
    this could be a cool challenge if we could find someone who would be willing to invest the same amount of time but basically do the opposite, namely practicing only a few authentic bebop moves within the octave with focus on application. i'd be happy to provide the framework for such a volunteer. would be interesting to compare the experiences after 6 months.

  38. #87

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    It's not fast but it is nice.


  39. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg View Post
    this could be a cool challenge if we could find someone who would be willing to invest the same amount of time but basically do the opposite, namely practicing only a few authentic bebop moves within the octave with focus on application. i'd be happy to provide the framework for such a volunteer. would be interesting to compare the experiences after 6 months.
    I could give it a try if nobody else emerges, I've been considering doing this eventually (like bookmarked Bebop Part I – Perpetual Motion Exercises | Jason Lyon on Music and stashed 'Learning the bebop language' by David Baker ).
    I play electric bass or otherwise comp on a guitar. When being asked to improvise nothing good comes out - Tripple_Jazz has quite a head start.
    20-25 minutes per day is probably maximum I can put aside for this, if somebody else is volunteering I will gladly pass, since I've got a lot on my plate already.

  40. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz View Post
    I think I could invest about 2-3 hours a week on this. So just to be clear, and using F as my starting point, I’m doing the 3 note major and minor arpeggio for two octaves, all three positions. Then I would do what? The M7, m7, Dom7, and m7b5 for all four of their inversions. That’s probably about all I would have time for. I’ll give it a 6 month trial along with some additional scales (I already practice at least once a week 7 scales). I’ll do F on Monday then Bb on Tuesday, all through the cycle. 15 minutes a day. This would mean I skip learning a new tune, which I’ll pick back up in 6 months. We’ll see what happens!
    Yea... you'll be happy.
    Just to clairify

    Start with Key of "G" (it will work easier when starting, in the end it doesn't matter)

    1) Play Gmaj. scale in 2nd position. (2 octaves) (Ionian))
    2) Then play the 3 note Gmaj. Triad Arpeggio, two octaves, also in 2nd position

    3) Then up to 6th position... play Bmin. version of Gmaj scale, (phrygian), again 2 octaves. 1st finger stretches
    4) Then the 3 note Gmaj. Arpeggio starting on "B", the 3rd degree. Two octaves, 6th position with 1st finger stretches

    5) then up to 9th position... play D7 version of Gmaj. scale, (mixo) again 2 octaves
    6) then play last inversion of 3 note Gmaj. Triad arpeggio, two octaves, also in 9th position.

    If you need the complete study notated out... I have it, but generally... you going through the process of writing it out will help as much as the playing.

  41. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg View Post
    this could be a cool challenge if we could find someone who would be willing to invest the same amount of time but basically do the opposite, namely practicing only a few authentic bebop moves within the octave with focus on application. i'd be happy to provide the framework for such a volunteer. would be interesting to compare the experiences after 6 months.
    Sure, but perhaps an informal challenge. So long as the other participant is posting videos in the virtual jam threads we can watch the progress literally unfold over the next 6 months.

    I have never taken lessons from anyone. I did an intro to guitar class in high school (1992) which got me started on guitar, but that was the closest thing to any lessons. I learned everything out of a book called “The Complete Guitarist” in the 90’s. This arpeggio challenge will be interesting since I went over them years ago but never put them into a practice routine as Reg has suggested.

  42. #91

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    Yea... Triple, not really a challenge, contest or anything like that. I'm here to help guitarist get better. Help you be able to play tunes easier with not so much work etc... Generally learning tunes is a different aspect of practice. If you picked up a tenor sax, would you just start learning jazz tunes.

    Also the sooner you get to 7th chords the easier it becomes and you'll begin to see and hear the bigger picture of how all this BS works together. Also... if you just want to do this privately, we can use PMs or emails.

  43. #92

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    Just for sh*ts and giggles:



  44. #93

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    LOL that was great, best post... thanks

  45. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    LOL that was great, best post... thanks
    Thank you Reg.

  46. #95

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    More sh*t than giggles, mind

    That was a joke

  47. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO View Post
    Just for sh*ts and giggles:

    Cool! Have you ever checked out Dave Tronzo?


  48. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    That was a joke
    I knew it was....


    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    Cool! Have you ever checked out Dave Tronzo?
    Yes: I'm aware of him although his stuff is a bit too way out for me...


    Question to you all:

    My "musical brain" keeps wanting to hear the turnaround (E-7 | F7 | Bbmaj7 | A7 ) as E-7b5 | F7#9 | Bbmaj7 | A7 alt |
    What do you think?

  49. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO View Post
    I knew it was....




    Yes: I'm aware of him although his stuff is a bit too way out for me...


    Question to you all:

    My "musical brain" keeps wanting to hear the turnaround (E-7 | F7 | Bbmaj7 | A7 ) as E-7b5 | F7#9 | Bbmaj7 | A7 alt |
    What do you think?
    On the head, E-7b5 works with the A in the melody, but F7#9 is pretty dissonant. I mean it's a sound, and you could certainly do it, but I'm not crazy about the sound of the G# there. I would tend to comp it more as a plain old F7, or maybe a b9. Blowing, anything goes as long as it's responsive to the rest of the band.

  50. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    On the head, E-7b5 works with the A in the melody, but F7#9 is pretty dissonant. I mean it's a sound, and you could certainly do it, but I'm not crazy about the sound of the G# there. I would tend to comp it more as a plain old F7, or maybe a b9. Blowing, anything goes as long as it's responsive to the rest of the band.
    I like it like this

    x7878x
    x8789x
    x10 8 10 10 x
    x7 11 11 11 x

  51. #100

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    My last appointment today was cancelled, so I thought I'd work on th ol' swing thing a bit. Warning: roughly edited content.