JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 11) - Upper Manhattan Medical Group

[ragman1]

rp, you worry too much

[mjo]

Sorry, someone spilled the peanuts again
I'm following these things, but can't record at the moment. Most of these are over my head anyway ...but..

Gb7 to Fm7b5 is unusual and is the only really jarring change in the tune to my ear.

What if that Gb had a #5, or would that be b13 ?
x
7
7
8
7
x
..into the half diminished...
I'm running into this chord, whatever it is quite a bit, in various forms. Usually subbing for something I don't like in my books.

..now, back to your regularly scheduled programing ...

Cheers,
Mike

[christianm77]

That's an interesting observation. I might have cited Gershwin and Cole Porter as doing that, but they weren't composing specifically for jazz. Strayhorn was really a remarkable musical figure.

John

No I hear them more as melody guys who were experts at harmonising their melodies in beautiful and distinctive ways (esp Porter.) but there’s not much in there I would think of as ‘non functional’ harmony if anything, despite all the modal interchange and chromaticism.

Whereas in Strayhorn despite his obvious (if rather non-pop) talent for melody, the harmony frequently takes centre stage.

He was hearing in ‘melodic minor harmony’ and non functional chord sequences before anyone had thought to define those things. you can hear this already in Take the A train. Ellington had worked a lot with the whole tone scale and all sorts of hip and unique harmonisations that not so much ahead of this time as paths largely untaken, but Strayhorn brought a new, modern and impressionistic palette that became incredibly influential. Gil Evans could not have existed without Strayhorn.

I’m not saying he was the first to use 7#11 on a II7 chord (I honestly have no idea), but to my ears that chord IS A Train. The tune’s identity is as much harmonic as melodic.

UMMG is interesting in that unlike say, Chelsea Bridge, it doesn’t really have any non functional stuff per se, but the ‘Db dim7’ becomes a tremendously important feature in the arrangement. Needless to say Strayhorn’s chord does not sound like a dim7 chord. I know what those sound like lol.

[christianm77]

rp, you worry too much

You’re not wrong

[wzpgsr]

The thing about UMMG that seems most unusual to me is what happens right before m7b5 chords.

....

Then, the Ab7 leads to Fm7b5. I can't think of another tune that does that, but it sounds smooth to me.

Not sure this is quite the same thing going on here, but—thinking of dominants a m3 apart as being related and somewhat interchangeable—UMMG may be a bit reminiscent of the tail end of the B section of What is This Thing Called Love, where the descending Ab7 | G7 leads back into the Gm7b5 of the final A section. In the case of UMMG, the Ab7 (a m3 away from F7) resolves to the Fm7b5.

[Triple_Jazz]

So basically what I am learning from these threads is that people will moan about the changes of any given instrumental jazz standard.

I think that’s the point isn’t it? To widen the skill set a bit and get used to playing new things?

I would moan at any standard that isn’t very musical, Dolphin Dance is highly irregular and difficult but very beautiful and lovely to play and listen to. I didn’t find that with this tune. It felt like Strayhorn was reaching too far and not really grasping IMO. As noted just above Lush Life is complex but u like UMMA Lush Life is a gorgeous tune. However, there is utility in doing a tune like this, I’ve said it earlier, notwithstanding one still would likely grunt and groan when doing push-ups too.

[Peter C]

Agreed regarding Dolphin Dance, definitely a tune I would delve into some time in the future. By the way, I'm not one to gripe about a tune's complexity. Just a matter of evaluating time investment. If I don't actually like the tune I may keep that quiet because there are others who obviously do. I didn't spend enough time with UMMG to find out if it was hiding some kind of secret. The current one, Unit 7, is looking good, time permitting.

[rpjazzguitar]

rp, you worry too much

Thanks for pointing that out.