JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 8) - Work Song

**kris** · 03-08-2021, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by PickingMyEars

Very nice. And thanks for giving credence to those of us that like to "ride 'em high." I put in taller frets, and raise my bridge high enough to allow me to dig in and not fret out. Helps me vary the dynamics. Also gives my guitar "the sound." A lot people in these parts like to brag about setting up a guitar like a limbo contest "how low can you go." That's cool but it ain't the only acceptable way to setup a geetar

For me, the trick is to raise the bridge just right. Too high and all the sustain cuts--that's Freddie Green territory. But if you get right underneath that threshold... To me, it sounds like Wes and Grant Green.

On the Stratocaster and Telecaster I have very low strings and I must say that I like this setting.
However, I am still looking for a hollow-body setup.In the case of hollow-body, the quality of the instrument is very important. I think so.

**TOMMO** · 03-08-2021, 12:51 PM

Very nice version, ragman - kinda "country blues"-ish, reminds me a bit of those old murder ballads like Frankie and Johnny.

**ragman1** · 03-08-2021, 01:35 PM

Tommo -

Well, this is the deceptive nature of these things. When I was doing it it sounded very thump-thump, like the big hammer whacking a rock. Coming to it later, now it sounds bouncy, not my intention at all. Ah well, c'est la vie

**John A.** · 03-08-2021, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

I didn’t think anyone here knew my last name.

There are no secrets on the internet.

John

**mr. beaumont** · 03-08-2021, 03:59 PM

Anybody else remember wzpgsr's name spelling when responding to him in a post by referring to him in your head as Wizard Pickguard Senior?

No?

Just me?

I'll get back to figuring out what this week's tune will be then. Nothing to see here.

**Alter** · 03-09-2021, 01:17 AM

Here's a version I did. Most backing tracks on the net have different chords to the original which felt wrong for me to play over, so I just looped a walking bass chorus.

To me this song shines when the band plays an Art Blakey shuffle (and I try to be Grant Green!

). But this version turned out different ..

This series of threads has been great. It's great to hear/see everyone playing, it's the closest thing to hanging out and having a jazzguitar.be jam session we can get! Only the drinks missing, so cheers everybody, and kudos to the OP..!

**wzpgsr** · 03-09-2021, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Alter

Here's a version I did. Most backing tracks on the net have different chords to the original which felt wrong for me to play over, so I just looped a walking bass chorus.

To me this song shines when the band plays an Art Blakey shuffle (and I try to be Grant Green!

). But this version turned out different ..

This series of threads has been great. It's great to hear/see everyone playing, it's the closest thing to hanging out and having a jazzguitar.be jam session we can get! Only the drinks missing, so cheers everybody, and kudos to the OP..!

Truly nasty. Love it.

**TOMMO** · 03-09-2021, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Alter

Here's a version I did. Most backing tracks on the net have different chords to the original which felt wrong for me to play over, so I just looped a walking bass chorus.

Cool - enjoyed that!

**kris** · 03-09-2021, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by Alter

Here's a version I did. Most backing tracks on the net have different chords to the original which felt wrong for me to play over, so I just looped a walking bass chorus.

To me this song shines when the band plays an Art Blakey shuffle (and I try to be Grant Green!

). But this version turned out different ..

This series of threads has been great. It's great to hear/see everyone playing, it's the closest thing to hanging out and having a jazzguitar.be jam session we can get! Only the drinks missing, so cheers everybody, and kudos to the OP..!

Very nice take with a beautiful solo.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-09-2021, 03:16 PM

Alter, some FANTASTIC inside out in there. Very Sco of you

Love it.

**lawson-stone** · 03-09-2021, 07:34 PM

This is more of a journal entry... trying to get this TUNE learned. I find the last 4 measures are hard to feel. Maybe it's the backing track, but it's likely my own lack of some basic natural rhythm!

Advice and counsel welcome, especially on how to tackle that last 4 measures. Please don't say "just feel it" I sorta already know that.

Also: Attempted more of a chordal chorus at the end. Didn't go very well.

**wzpgsr** · 03-10-2021, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

This is more of a journal entry... trying to get this TUNE learned. I find the last 4 measures are hard to feel. Maybe it's the backing track, but it's likely my own lack of some basic natural rhythm!

Advice and counsel welcome, especially on how to tackle that last 4 measures. Please don't say "just feel it" I sorta already know that.

Also: Attempted more of a chordal chorus at the end. Didn't go very well.

I hear ya. I’ve been looping that last bit at a slow tempo, listening and trying to connect the chords in musical ways: Fm | F7 | Bb7 | Db7 C7 | Fm. Rinse and repeat.

The chords fly by quickly—nothing wrong with laying into some blues over that Db7-C7. Or a nice sounding pattern with a chord tone or two, first in Db7, then repeated a half-step down.

**djg** · 03-10-2021, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

I hear ya. I’ve been looping that last bit at a slow tempo, listening and trying to connect the chords in musical ways: Fm | F7 | Bb7 | Db7 C7 | Fm. Rinse and repeat.

The chords fly by quickly—nothing wrong with laying into some blues over that Db7-C7. Or a nice sounding pattern with a chord tone or two, first in Db7, then repeated a half-step down.

i'll make a vid if i find the time. the Db7 is basically there to harmonize the b5 in the blues scale. so the B (Cb if you must) is the most important note there. also note that Db7 is non-altered while the C7 is altered so the symmetry thing has to be handled with care. my personal concept is derived from wes and martino. for Db7 i think Bmaj7 (like wes) or Abm7 (like pat).

**TOMMO** · 03-10-2021, 03:58 AM

Sounds good, lawson. Like being said above: if you play F blues with a b5 over those chords you can't go wrong - it'll sound great.

**rpjazzguitar** · 03-10-2021, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by TOMMO

Multiquoting: click on the lower right icon to multiquote a post and the last post you want to quote click on "reply with quote"

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

This is more of a journal entry... trying to get this TUNE learned. I find the last 4 measures are hard to feel. Maybe it's the backing track, but it's likely my own lack of some basic natural rhythm!

Advice and counsel welcome, especially on how to tackle that last 4 measures. Please don't say "just feel it" I sorta already know that.

Also: Attempted more of a chordal chorus at the end. Didn't go very well.

One way to do it is play F blues throughout that section. The ear will hear the F blues as making sense. The ear will also hear the actual changes underneath. I think bitonality will be created, where the listener tracks both at once. It will sound good.

Another approach would be to slow it way down and try to hit the important notes, that is,the ones that change from one chord to the next.

F7 to Bb7 ... you can hit A-->Ab, Maybe Eb-->D.

Then, it goes to G7. So, you're going from Bb D F Ab to G B D F. So,you can drop the Ab to G and raise the Bb to B.

For the G7, the main thing is lowering the B to Bb.

So, your line might go A Ab G Gb F. Or A Ab B Bb Ab. Or A Ab G G (for both chords) F
Once you can hear the guide tones, then you can embellish them.

The second approach is a lot more complicated. That doesn't make it better. My choice in my clip was just to play on Fmin and let the comping "do the work".

**christianm77** · 03-10-2021, 04:46 AM

Barry Harris strategy

Db7 C7 Fm

Play

Gm7b5 C7 Fm

**kris** · 03-10-2021, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Barry Harris strategy

Db7 C7 Fm

Play

Gm7b5 C7 Fm

I do not know B.Harris strategy but I think:
Db7 C7 Fm is taken from G7b5 C7 Fm
Db7 looks like substitute for G7b5
...anyway both strategies work

**Alter** · 03-10-2021, 06:04 AM

I kind of see 4 basic parts and movements in this song, that I enjoy practicing separately also.

First 6 bars tonic F-7

Bars 7-8 moving from tonic to target dominant C7

Bars 9-12 tonic F-7 again.

Bars 13-14 are about targeting the Bb7 (classic 4 chord on blues)

And the last two bars are a movement back to the tonic (using some variation of subdom-dom-tonic or just dom-tonic sounds).

It took really learning when the first C7 and when the Bb7 arrive to feel comfortable with the tune.

About the last two bars, I really enjoy how Grant Green and Wes handle this movement where they usually mix a bit of lines and a bit of blues or scalar material (Green often just plays some variation of F harmonic minor lick). So one great approach is to transcribe some licks of them.

**djg** · 03-10-2021, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Barry Harris strategy

Db7 C7 Fm

Play

Gm7b5 C7 Fm

yeah, but Db7 C7 Fm is a hard-bop move, similar to tunes like full house etc. we need the blues scale here, which BH is not a big fan of. the beboppers made everything II-V, which imo actually trivializes the progression at hand.

edit: i'm reminded of this. this is pure hardbop, a quite different place from the BH realm.

**grahambop** · 03-10-2021, 06:43 AM

I first learned this tune years ago from Kenny Burrell's solo version on his 'Live at the Village Vanguard' record, so here's my solo take inspired by KB.

**TOMMO** · 03-10-2021, 06:45 AM

Don't rack your brains about too much theory regarding Db7 -> C7 -> Fm. It's a classic cadence in minor blues - the most famous probably being "Thrill Is Gone". A blues player would bend the 4 a half step into a b5 for VI7 and release to the 4 over V7.

**TOMMO** · 03-10-2021, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

I first learned this tune years ago from Kenny Burrell's solo version on his 'Live at the Village Vanguard' record, so here's my solo take inspired by KB.

Wonderful, graham - love it!
I was thinking about doing another clip doing exactly that: playing without a backing track but ditched the idea because my playing probably wouldn't have been much different from my first attempt.

**djg** · 03-10-2021, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

I first learned this tune years ago from Kenny Burrell's solo version on his 'Live at the Village Vanguard' record, so here's my solo take inspired by KB.

man, that is such a good record. i used to play the arrangement of "love you madly" with a trio.

**grahambop** · 03-10-2021, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by djg

man, that is such a good record. i used to play the arrangement of "love you madly" with a trio.

yes, and they released 2 records from the same night, I’ve got them both!

JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 8) - Work Song-0167e9b0-8eb2-4c5a-a292-004603d9dff8-jpeg

**djg** · 03-10-2021, 07:30 AM

wow. i never realized that.

**TOMMO** · 03-10-2021, 08:03 AM

Both Village Vanguard live albums plus one from '83 at the Village Gate - great stuff!

**DonEsteban** · 03-10-2021, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Alter

I kind of see 4 basic parts and movements in this song, that I enjoy practicing separately also.

First 6 bars tonic F-7
Bars 7-8 moving from tonic to target dominant C7
Bars 9-12 tonic F-7 again.
Bars 13-14 are about targeting the Bb7 (classic 4 chord on blues)
And the last two bars are a movement back to the tonic (using some variation of subdom-dom-tonic or just dom-tonic sounds).

Your post made me check back the "original" recordings by Cannonball.

The first 12 bars seem obvious, just like you write.

Then, on the studio version I have (Them Dirty Blues) they play the chords you wrote before:

| F7 | Bb7 | Db7 C7 | Fm7 |

But if you check this live recording from Youtube - some footage from an Oscar Brown Jr. TV show (Jazz Scene 1962) - if my ears are don't fool me, there is no F7 to Bb7 anywhere. They seem to play:

| Db7 | C7 | Db7 C7 | Fm7 |

So there are at least 2 different versions by the Adderleys themself out there.

This is the video:

**djg** · 03-10-2021, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by DonEsteban

Your post made me check back the "original" recordings by Cannonball.

The first 12 bars seem obvious, just like you write.

Then, on the studio version I have (Them Dirty Blues) they play the chords you wrote before:

| F7 | Bb7 | Db7 C7 | Fm7 |

But if you check this live recording from Youtube - some footage from an Oscar Brown Jr. TV show (Jazz Scene 1962) - if my ears are don't fool me, there is no F7 to Bb7 anywhere. They seem to play:

| Db7 | C7 | Db7 C7 | Fm7 |

So there are at least 2 different versions by the Adderleys themself out there.

This is the video:

i hear the F7 to Bb7 loud and clear. the solos acknowledge that too.

**TOMMO** · 03-10-2021, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by djg

i hear the F7 to Bb7 loud and clear. the solos acknowledge that too.

Yes.

**DonEsteban** · 03-10-2021, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by djg

i hear the F7 to Bb7 loud and clear. the solos acknowledge that too.

Yes, I agree, don't know where my ears where this morning.. Also I didn't check the solos just the head...

**lawson-stone** · 03-10-2021, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

I first learned this tune years ago from Kenny Burrell's solo version on his 'Live at the Village Vanguard' record, so here's my solo take inspired by KB.

That's just wonderful. Love the energy and as always, I love the lines!

**lawson-stone** · 03-10-2021, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by djg

i'll make a vid if i find the time. the Db7 is basically there to harmonize the b5 in the blues scale. so the B (Cb if you must) is the most important note there. also note that Db7 is non-altered while the C7 is altered so the symmetry thing has to be handled with care. my personal concept is derived from wes and martino. for Db7 i think Bmaj7 (like wes) or Abm7 (like pat).

The lead sheet I'm using, from the Hal Leonard 2nd edition Real Book, has a G7 instead of Db7, which of course I under stand as a tritone.

**djg** · 03-10-2021, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

The lead sheet I'm using, from the Hal Leonard 2nd edition Real Book, has a G7 instead of Db7, which of course I under stand as a tritone.

JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 8) - Work Song-cubepng-png

**kris** · 03-10-2021, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by DonEsteban

Your post made me check back the "original" recordings by Cannonball.

The first 12 bars seem obvious, just like you write.

Then, on the studio version I have (Them Dirty Blues) they play the chords you wrote before:

| F7 | Bb7 | Db7 C7 | Fm7 |

But if you check this live recording from Youtube - some footage from an Oscar Brown Jr. TV show (Jazz Scene 1962) - if my ears are don't fool me, there is no F7 to Bb7 anywhere. They seem to play:

| Db7 | C7 | Db7 C7 | Fm7 |

So there are at least 2 different versions by the Adderleys themself out there.

This is the video:

solos:
Fm7 IDb7 C 7IFm7 I Db7C7IFm7 I Db7 C7I Gm7I C7 I
Fm7 I Db7 C7I Fm7 I Db7 C7IF7 I Bb7I Db7 C7I Fm7 II

**djg** · 03-10-2021, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by kris

solos:
Fm7 IDb7 C 7IFm7 I Db7C7IFm7 I Db7 C7I Gm7I C7 I
Fm7 I Db7 C7I Fm7 I Db7 C7IF7 I Bb7I Db7 C7I Fm7 II

they dont play it that strict.

sometimes they play Fm7 to C7, sometimes Fm7 to Bb7. sometimes the milestones idea, Fm Gm Ab Gm. i hear it all at various points in that live recording

**kris** · 03-10-2021, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

I first learned this tune years ago from Kenny Burrell's solo version on his 'Live at the Village Vanguard' record, so here's my solo take inspired by KB.

You chose the most difficult options for this piece.
Keeping time until the end is a really big challenge.
I hear minimal time hesitation but I know that playing like this without backing is very difficult.
Best
Kris

**mr. beaumont** · 03-10-2021, 10:11 AM

The big takeaway of course, is that it's a non 12 bar blues...there's i, there's IV, and there's V. Target accordingly.

**kris** · 03-10-2021, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by djg

they dont play it that strict.

sometimes they play Fm7 to C7, sometimes Fm7 to Bb7. sometimes the milestones idea, Fm Gm Ab Gm. i hear it all at various points in that live recording

You are right.When the piano start solo they play what I wrote...I think...

**mr. beaumont** · 03-10-2021, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

I first learned this tune years ago from Kenny Burrell's solo version on his 'Live at the Village Vanguard' record, so here's my solo take inspired by KB.

So tough to do a tune like this in this style, and you pull it off! Sounds great. If your is the last version we hear this week, what a great capper.

Hope everybody had fun with this tune. I just picked this week's...its a doozy

**grahambop** · 03-10-2021, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by kris

You chose the most difficult options for this piece.
Keeping time until the end is a really big challenge.
I hear minimal time hesitation but I know that playing like this without backing is very difficult.
Best
Kris

thanks, yes I nearly came unstuck a few times but I think I managed to hold on to the form in my head, somehow!

**grahambop** · 03-10-2021, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

So tough to do a tune like this in this style, and you pull it off! Sounds great. If your is the last version we hear this week, what a great capper.

Hope everybody had fun with this tune. I just picked this week's...its a doozy

Thanks Jeff, I’ve been practising a lot of solo guitar stuff this past year, that probably helped.

**PickingMyEars** · 03-10-2021, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

This is more of a journal entry... trying to get this TUNE learned. I find the last 4 measures are hard to feel. Maybe it's the backing track, but it's likely my own lack of some basic natural rhythm!

Advice and counsel welcome, especially on how to tackle that last 4 measures. Please don't say "just feel it" I sorta already know that.

Also: Attempted more of a chordal chorus at the end. Didn't go very well.

Very laid back. Maybe it was the cowboy hat

The chordal chorus sounded good as well. I mean... I can't do that chordal stuff to save my life, but I do love comping for others. Another thing to practice

For that last bit, I think it's easiest to look at all the parts that stay the same. Target the notes that change. That A natural in the F7 is a key note, because--at least the way I hear it--it falls out of the Fm tonality. Oddly enough, Wes sure plays the heck outta that major third...

Db7 is "outside the key"... but the key note there is the B natural (b5 of the key). I am a fan of thinking key based and then layering in the harmony to catch that harmonic movement. B natural ain't that "outside" for F minor and neither is Db (the b6th). I practice isolating those sounds against the key--here and in any other tune I practice. I can access things faster with my ears than with my brain when I improvise... I think that is common with a lot of jazz musicians--but they do it WAY better than I

Oh... and we need one more take. We are all missing key source material for our adventures into Hardbop. Hopefully I don't get stricken down if I post the missing ingredient. As Cannonball says, "I dun mean Bach CHOOORALLLLS, you know what I mean...?"

If my work doesn't get ahead of me... you know, "Nobody knows the work I do around here..."--they really don't at my job, but that's gotta be a common refrain for many of us.

Anyway, if I can--I wanna try quoting some of the source material for all this

**christianm77** · 03-10-2021, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by djg

yeah, but Db7 C7 Fm is a hard-bop move, similar to tunes like full house etc. we need the blues scale here, which BH is not a big fan of. the beboppers made everything II-V, which imo actually trivializes the progression at hand.

edit: i'm reminded of this. this is pure hardbop, a quite different place from the BH realm.

what like this you mean?

**christianm77** · 03-10-2021, 02:42 PM

Anyway I have no beef with bVI7. Just suggesting possibilities. bVI7 has been a common chord in the minor key for a few hundred years. It’s good to learn to deal with it.

(Although playing B-Bb and not B-C on Db7 Fm is a definite Blues thing. Classical would go up.)

**christianm77** · 03-10-2021, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

So tough to do a tune like this in this style, and you pull it off! Sounds great. If your is the last version we hear this week, what a great capper.

Hope everybody had fun with this tune. I just picked this week's...its a doozy

Just wish I had more time to actually play atm. There’s a lot of stuff going on right now. Lots music related, all good, but not much time to actually sit down and play.