The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Anyone working through Mike Stern's book: Altered Scale Soloing?-936025682-jpeg

    Anyone working through this book?

    I just got it in the post today. I can't think of anyone further away from my usual style of playing, but I still have great memories of the Mike Stern Band in Edinburgh a few years back. It's a cliche, but he really did blow me away. And he also appears to be one of the nicest guys on the planet. So, being really bored by my own playing, I thought it would be fun and instructive to step inside Mike's mind for a while, see how he does things.

    He starts with the altered (melodic minor) scale, which I've been long familiar with, but his fingerings are very different from mine, and I find that interesting. That's it. I haven't got very far at all.

    The chapters are:

    1. The Altered Scale (Melodic Minor)
    2. The Mixolydian b2b6 scale (Harmonic Minor)
    3. The Symmetrical Dininished Scale
    4. The Whole Tone Scale
    5. Bb Blues Performance

    As I said, I know all these scales, but it's the view of them by an outstanding jazz-guitar giant that holds the interest for me.

    Mike plays all the exercises in downloadable sound files.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Okay, it's just me and Mike! Chromazone, here we come!

  4. #3

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    Interesting list.

    I started to ruminate about it and came up with this, for some reason.

    Chord name translations in the key of C

    1. The Altered Scale (Melodic Minor). G7#11b13b9#9
    2. The Mixolydian b2b6 scale (Harmonic Minor) G7b9b13
    3. The Symmetrical Dininished Scale G13#11b9#9
    4.The Whole Tone Scale G7#11 b13
    5. Bb Blues Performance (I don't know what this is)

    Thinking of them as scales has the advantage of making each one sound distinctive. If you just think, "I'll alter 5th and 9ths on the fly" you can miss the individual sounds. But, OTOH, I think it's a good idea to be able to hear and play the individual alterations at will, without thinking of the scales.

    What about a chord that, when played over the G7 comping makes the required sound (bearing in mind that the comping may need to be R 3 b7 only for this to work).

    For G alt, Db Eb Ab Bb are the alterations. Does it help to think of that as Bbm7sus?

    G7b9b13 the alterations are Eb and Ab. Does it help to think Abm or Abmadd9?

    Next up sym. dim. Alterations are Db Ab Bb. Arguably, include E. Bbm7b5?

    WT alterations are #11 b13 (aka both alterations of the 5th). Db and Eb. Not sure what chord overlay gives that.

  5. #4

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    So, mostly we are thinking b5 #5 b9 #9.

    Mike writes about how he encourages students to think from the root, so instead of thinking Abm, he prefers thinking G Dominant.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    So, mostly we are thinking b5 #5 b9 #9.

    Mike writes about how he encourages students to think from the root, so instead of thinking Abm, he prefers thinking G Dominant.
    He's right, I think. But, you have to be able to do it in 12 keys plus a couple of enharmonic keys. So, sooner or later it will be G#7 or C#7 and you need to identify the altered fifths and ninths instantly.

    Arguably, it may be easier to think "minor triad a half step up" than memorize all the alterations in 12 keys.

  7. #6

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    I just got a copy of the book yesterday myself.

    I was expecting the 'think from the root of the chord/scale" thing.
    That, and the "play along each string" approach.
    But I was also a little thrown by Mike's fingerings which seem sometimes positional
    and other times a bit random.

    I feel we're going to have to wait for Mike to do a comprehensive book, I guess it's not
    really his thing.

    Still I will give it a shot as I like Mike.

    I don't have much time, feeling the pressure of life passing swiftly by.

    So, it's roll up my sleeves and get on with it.
    I'll try to keep you posted on my progress and look forward to your further thoughts Rob.

  8. #7

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    When you watch Mike play, his left hand is very fluid, and fairly constantly on the move, which can lead to his idiosyncratic fingering. The scale diagram on page 12 was really odd to me at first, but after playing with it for an hour or so it has a nice flow to it, especially when I put in a couple of semitone slides.

    But then his example in 3rds, page 13, departs from it. I'm okay with all of this. He's a player, not a "put your finger here" kind of teacher. I'm just letting him guide me a little, and then spin off in my own direction. I soon had the G Alt scale in 3rds all over the fretboard, it was great fun.

    Keep at it, Moonray! I'm no young lion either...we do what we can, and hopefully enjoy the journey.

  9. #8

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    Rob,

    Wondering how you and Mike are getting along. I was very interested when you first posted this and would have joined in if I were not two months deep into a Joe Pass deep dive.

    How goes it?

    Chris

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

  10. #9

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    Hi Chris,

    Slow progress. I've been woodshedding the altered scale in 3rds then 4ths, with other intervals to follow. I'm in no hurry. A page could last a week or two. I now have more interesting things to play with over a V7 chord, which is always worthwhile, and I do so over a V7 vamp or a 251 progression, major and minor. I can imagine the book taking me a couple of years to get through, if I hang in there long enough.

    Cheers,

    Rob

  11. #10

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    Sounds like fun, Rob. And if you integrate a touch of Mike's magic into your playing in two years I would consider it time well spent.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

  12. #11

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    Ah, Magic Mike's Special Touch costs extra...a LOT extra...more than money can buy.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Ah, Magic Mike's Special Touch costs extra...a LOT extra...more than money can buy.
    Anyone working through Mike Stern's book: Altered Scale Soloing?Well said.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

  14. #13

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    So, I actually just had a zoom lesson with Mike Stern yesterday. I wasn't thinking about the book (I'm generally not a book guy), but did ask him for help with adding more altered dominant and outside ideas to my playing as the focus of the lesson. He (unsurprisingly) suggested I buy his book. He took me through the things mentioned here -- playing the scale in 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, and 7ths, playing the scales on 1 string -- also some ideas for voicing harmonized major scales. He also suggested one of the Joe Pass books.

    One thing that I found pretty interesting is that he definitely plays the stuff in his book; it's definitely not just for the sake of having/selling a book. And he plays these scales unbelievably fast and clean without any thought or stumbling. It's just boom! Two octaves of Galt7 scale in intervals, all alternate picked at tempo, like that. He's exactly the friendly smiling guy you see in videos/performances, but he's also quite together as a teacher and very direct about correcting mistakes etc. Not at all a BS session trying to pass as a "master class", but a real lesson. I went ahead and ordered both because, based on how he uses this material himself, I think it'll be useful and will help in remembering the sequence and details.
    Last edited by John A.; 04-21-2021 at 02:07 PM.

  15. #14

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    I wonder what the situation is with Mike's fingers ?...He had an accident a few years ago and he was sticking the pick with glue to his finger.
    I talked to him about it in Warsaw.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    I wonder what the situation is with Mike's fingers ?...He had an accident a few years ago and he was sticking the pick with glue to his finger.
    I talked to him about it in Warsaw.
    His left hand is fine. His right hand still has issues, and from what I can see he's still placing it in his right hand with his left (I couldn't tell whether he's using glue and didn't ask). His actual picking seems to be pretty much back to normal. Watching him blaze through scales is pretty amazing.

  17. #16

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    Cool John, I've been working on Mike's book for the last 2 weeks. Very nice and well organized!
    I've always liked how Mike uses diminished material.
    I was also thinking of taking a lesson with him soon.
    You've just convinced me!
    What is the Joe Pass book he talks about?

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronstuff
    Cool John, I've been working on Mike's book for the last 2 weeks. Very nice and well organized!
    I've always liked how Mike uses diminished material.
    I was also thinking of taking a lesson with him soon.
    You've just convinced me!
    What is the Joe Pass book he talks about?
    It's "joe Pass on Guitar".

  19. #18

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    Just purchased. A few fresh ideas for $19.99 is a bargain. Always enjoy listening to Mike Stern play AND talk.

  20. #19

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    I had Mike's album Odds or Evens when I first met my wife. She didn't like it then and she still doesn't like it now but I think that the album is killer.

    My 8 year old can spontaneously sing one of the heads so I must have been playing it a lot lately

    Anyway just got the book. The single string work is fine, now onto the intervals.

    I'm hoping to apply these concepts to fingerstyle guitar firstly in a conscious way then hopefully it'll come naturally ?

    Peace

  21. #20
    DaShigsta Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    So, I actually just had a zoom lesson with Mike Stern yesterday.
    That's great !

    Did he ever give you the Banacos single string chord tone exercises ? If not, ask for these.
    I did a workshop with him and Liebman back in the day and Mike passed these sheets out
    which kept me busy for a looooong time.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaShigsta
    That's great !

    Did he ever give you the Banacos single string chord tone exercises ? If not, ask for these.
    I did a workshop with him and Liebman back in the day and Mike passed these sheets out
    which kept me busy for a looooong time.
    He didn't give me a chord tone exercise (or mention Banacos), but he did have me play altered scales on single strings. Not sure when/if I'll do another lesson - he gave me a lot to work on, and it'll be a while before I've made enough progress to come back.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaShigsta
    That's great !

    Did he ever give you the Banacos single string chord tone exercises ? If not, ask for these.
    I did a workshop with him and Liebman back in the day and Mike passed these sheets out
    which kept me busy for a looooong time.
    Would that be like, play the chord tones of a standard, staying on one string per chorus, or something?

  24. #23

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    Are you guys playing Mike's examples verbatim or are you changing keys and making up your own runs to use in your playing?

    Mike does say to take a cellular approach and use each lick straightaway in your playing.

  25. #24
    DaShigsta Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Would that be like, play the chord tones of a standard, staying on one string per chorus, or something?
    No... PM sent.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Would that be like, play the chord tones of a standard, staying on one string per chorus, or something?
    John Abercrombie showed exercises how to play solos on one and two strings .
    Very creative practice.