The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Okie, here it is. The first take, and I did try a few. But the ones I thought was better sounded kinda contrived at the same time. Cant record too many on the same day I guess.


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  3. #27

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    Nice one Hep!

    Bluesy approach just work great on this tune. No two ways about it.

  4. #28

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    I hear ya...Shorter's stuff can be heavy.

    But I have heard this tune called at a session, and my original intent was to focus on music that was a little more modern than a lot of the stuff folks talk about around here. And I do think this tune is accessible.

    I'll be honest, I was a bit shocked people didn't know this song or Recorda Me or Beatrice...So I think these jams are good for opening people's ears to some new to them stuff.

  5. #29

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    I knew Recordame because it's in the original Real Book. Often called at jams and gigs for that reason -- at the level I was playing at for quite some time. I recall hearing recordings of it too.

    Beatrice isn't in that book and is newer to me. But, I play with a pianist who calls it.

    I don't recall ever having heard Night Dreamer. TBH, I'm only beginning to appreciate Wayne Shorter's music. I recall trying to get into it years ago and moving on.

    Thanks to all for the feedback and the discussion about how to approach the tune.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I hear ya...Shorter's stuff can be heavy.

    But I have heard this tune called at a session, and my original intent was to focus on music that was a little more modern than a lot of the stuff folks talk about around here. And I do think this tune is accessible.

    I'll be honest, I was a bit shocked people didn't know this song or Recorda Me or Beatrice...So I think these jams are good for opening people's ears to some new to them stuff.
    It's very accessible. I've heard all of them at some point but I never played them. And you definitely don't know 'em till you try playing 'em.

    I also think it's an error to over-simplify Shorter's stuff too. Not if you want to do them justice.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    Ok Jeff,
    I take it a bit like throwing it into deep water.
    This is just my subjective feeling and don't worry ... :-)
    Best
    kris
    Sink or swim! (as they say)

    Ragman, I liken Shorter's music to abstract art. People say, "I could do this." And they could. But they didn't

  8. #32

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    Hi guys,
    I have to toss a volley from the peanut gallery, just to say these posts are GREAT !
    This one in particular, if someone handed me this lead sheet I may have said " I'll sit this one out". Seeing you guys break this down is extremely helpfull !

    You're a bunch of very good players and I had to tell you that you may be doing more good than you know.

    Cheers,
    Mike

  9. #33

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    Giving some more thought to the first two bars.

    This is from the RB chart.

    The lowest note in the chord voicings are as follows

    Gmaj7 - G to F# (up a maj 7) in the bass. Lowest note in the treble clef chord is G. Scale, to my ear, G Ionian or G lydian.

    Fm7 - G down to Bb. That makes the overall chord Abmaj7/G going to Bbsus13. Bb mixo, but let me call it Ebmajor for a moment.

    This is interesting because the chord symbol is Fm7. The notes on the staff spell out Fm9/G and Fm9/Bb.

    Ebmaj7 - Eb to F in the bass (up a 9th) with a Gm7 spelled out in the treble. So, the resulting chord is Ebmaj9. More Ebmajor.

    Then D7#5#9, with the bass going from F# to D. The treble clef is F# Bb C F. That looks like Fsusb9/F# (which comes out of the Ebmelmin scale in the mini-theoretical lobe of my brain). Ebmaj can work, if you lower the G to Gb, which is Ebmelmin. An argument could be made for Ab13/D.

    So, I end up with Gmajor, Ebmajor and Ebmel min.

    But, knowing all that isn't all that helpful. The chords are moving too fast for me to think about individual scale choices and, for reasons which are frequently debated, the whole notion of individual scale choices is, arguably, a dead end street heading in the wrong direction.

    But, knowing that three of the chords (not counting the Gmaj7) are all focused around an Eb scale, give or take a note, is helpful. All I have to do to avoid egregious clams is to think Gmajor. Then, for the next three chords, think Ebmajor and, when I get to the D7#5#9 remember to lower the G to Gb, which I can handle by ear.

    When I recorded my clip, I hadn't thought it through that far. I think I realized that, if I started with a Gmajor triad, I could raise it to an Abmaj triad and sound like I knew what I was doing. I also realized that the same triad would give me #11 7 and b9 against D7. And, I played with those things in mind.

    Upon further reflection, the same triad up a whole step gives Bb D F -- which are the top three notes in the chord spelled out in the chart.
    And, then move it back down two frets to play Ab major triad against D7#5#9 and that will work.

    With that much, I've got an idea for a little structure (same voicing of a triad in different harmonic contexts) and it's easy to play. I know the first one is over a G sort of tonal center and the others are over Eb something or other.

    That's enough to avoid egregious clams while trying to make melody.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
    Great tune... And great take to bring us into round 6, Mr. B

    A lot really crappy backing tracks if you want to solo over it.

    This one comes close to the groove on the album:



    Trick with a modern waltz like this or anything Wes is that 4 feel against 2 measures of 3/4

    ONE and two AND three and ONE two AND three and

    Try it. You often hear this in the drums. Wes was very to this as well. Peter Farrell hipped me to this in a video on how Wes feels 3/4 and 6/8. Peter has some great videos on feel and groove
    This one is another of the very nice backing tracks produced by Hal Leonard to go with their revision of the Real Books. All of them hew pretty close to some well-known recording of the tunes.

  11. #35

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    And heeeerrreeeee's Johnny ....



    Shorter plays G minor pentatonic riffs on this almost entirely. I'm happy to follow that lead, and also try to make it almost all little melodic cells and motifs. The part I find most tricky is hearing the Eb-/Ab7 change. Fun tune, but definitely a challenge to make it work quarantine style.

    John

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    This is the Comins GCS-1, ME80 (adding reverb and nothing else) and Little Jazz. IRealpro backing track played, not quite loud enough, thru a KC150.

    A few words about process. I'm curious about how others approach a tune and I figured, I'll go first.

    I don't recall hearing or playing this tune. So, I listened to what I think is the original version on youtube and I got the RealBook chart. I played the chords a few times (the piano voicings in the chart turned out to be playable, with some stretching, on guitar). I tried scatting a solo, but didn't come up with much. So, I took a look at the chords.

    The Gmaj7 Fm7 Ebmaj7 Dalt, sounded bluesy to me, but that Gmaj7 (rather than Gm there) keeps it from being Hit The Road Jack. It occured to me to think about it as all I V. The idea there was that the Gmaj7 is the tonic and all the others are subs for Dalt. I considered Fm7. F Ab C Eb, all within Dalt. Then Eb G Bb D -- the G isn't in Dalt but I'm generally more willing to adjust a note or two by ear than to learn a new scale.

    I ended up thinking this progression is G tonal center then Ab tonal center. And, what you hear is based on the idea that all I needed to do was play on G and then go up a half step. That freed me up a bit to focus on trying to make a melody.

    Next up is a ii V in Db. I did that by ear, but, thinking about it, since I was in Ab, the issue is lowering the G to Gb. That gives the b3 on the ii and the b7 on the V.

    My ear couldn't really make much sense of the E13sus and F13sus. The first one is E A B D C#. A tonal center sounded ok. The next chord is another "half step up" change and I didn't think of a clever way to play it. It occurred to me that the tune is about half step changes.

    Then back to the original 2 bar sequence (with an error in the Irealpro chart which I couldn't figure out how to fix, so I left it -- it's not very audible.

    I'm not happy with what I recorded but I had to admit to myself that I can't really play it much better. I'm working on being more precise with the sound of the instrument, the timing of the notes and how clearly I articulate the notes. All of this is a work in progress.

    I dunno, I think you're being a bit hard on yourself. This came out quite well. The rhythm and phrasing are tight, I like the way you vary it between shorter and longer figures, lines and cells.

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 02-19-2021 at 10:07 PM.

  13. #37

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    Here I go! I LOVE Wayne Shorter's music and several of my original tunes reflect that! I had listened to Night Dreamer, but never played it... His tunes have such character and mood, I find they encourage improvisors to go beyond their usual devices.
    This was recorded at a theater rehearsal studio with a bass player, and the Drum Genius app.

    Last edited by Ronstuff; 02-19-2021 at 11:14 PM.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Time for a waltz...a short but not so easy one.

    Attachment 79357



    This one was very tough for me. This is not a "the correct note is only one fret away" tune.
    Great touch and time-feel. So cool and laid back... I'm Jealous!!!!!!!

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    This is the Comins GCS-1, ME80 (adding reverb and nothing else) and Little Jazz. IRealpro backing track played, not quite loud enough, thru a KC150.

    A few words about process. I'm curious about how others approach a tune and I figured, I'll go first.

    I don't recall hearing or playing this tune. So, I listened to what I think is the original version on youtube and I got the RealBook chart. I played the chords a few times (the piano voicings in the chart turned out to be playable, with some stretching, on guitar). I tried scatting a solo, but didn't come up with much. So, I took a look at the chords.

    The Gmaj7 Fm7 Ebmaj7 Dalt, sounded bluesy to me, but that Gmaj7 (rather than Gm there) keeps it from being Hit The Road Jack. It occured to me to think about it as all I V. The idea there was that the Gmaj7 is the tonic and all the others are subs for Dalt. I considered Fm7. F Ab C Eb, all within Dalt. Then Eb G Bb D -- the G isn't in Dalt but I'm generally more willing to adjust a note or two by ear than to learn a new scale.

    I ended up thinking this progression is G tonal center then Ab tonal center. And, what you hear is based on the idea that all I needed to do was play on G and then go up a half step. That freed me up a bit to focus on trying to make a melody.

    Next up is a ii V in Db. I did that by ear, but, thinking about it, since I was in Ab, the issue is lowering the G to Gb. That gives the b3 on the ii and the b7 on the V.

    My ear couldn't really make much sense of the E13sus and F13sus. The first one is E A B D C#. A tonal center sounded ok. The next chord is another "half step up" change and I didn't think of a clever way to play it. It occurred to me that the tune is about half step changes.

    Then back to the original 2 bar sequence (with an error in the Irealpro chart which I couldn't figure out how to fix, so I left it -- it's not very audible.

    I'm not happy with what I recorded but I had to admit to myself that I can't really play it much better. I'm working on being more precise with the sound of the instrument, the timing of the notes and how clearly I articulate the notes. All of this is a work in progress.


    Yeah! Some really great lines in there!

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Nice one Hep!

    Bluesy approach just work great on this tune. No two ways about it.
    Thanks, yea, I figured for this tune either that or sound modern dreamy which is def not my bag haha.

  17. #41

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    A lot of theory talk, which helps to re conceptualize the tune for sure. Gave me new things to try out and mix into that stew

    That said, this is hard bop at work by a genius of the genre. I'd love to just chat with Wayne Shorter, even if his chats become epics that Homer would be jealous of if he were still walking this mortal plain.

    Blues. Modal. Complex. Yes.

    But also, DRIVING. Art Blakey. Elvin, Elvin, ELVIN! The rhythm is a huge part of the hard bop idiom, in my mind. Maybe it's cause I have the same birth date as Max Roach, but man... what a difference great groove, rhythm, and time feel make. Melody and harmony start the story, but rhythm and feel sell the store--you know what I'm saying?

    This tune is a great laboratory to work on phrasing. Build dynamics. Dig in. Make it groove while making it dance above the groove.

    I love Sonny Stitt, Charlie Parker, and Bud Powell. But hard bop... I know I'm not alone here. Hard bop hits you in your gut while lifting your spirit. Extremely visceral yet inexplicably beautiful.

  18. #42

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    Hard bop is my music. Theres nothing I'd rather listen to.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Thanks, yea, I figured for this tune either that or sound modern dreamy which is def not my bag haha.
    As someone who used to chill with you, and talk your EARS off about ear training back in the day...

    These tunes ARE your jam. Get into the rhythm and groove of these hard bop tunes. If we were playing these at a live session, you would be encouraged to reach back into that Psychobilly bag of tricks and drive the band. Then the band would drive you. Hard bop is all about the interaction... which we miss here unless we play with real people Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I've heard that Hard Bop is closer to Swing than Bebop.

    You can dance to Art Blakey and Elvin. As beautiful as Bebop is, it's hard to dance to--but there is still a dance in that music as well. I say this as I continue to build my Rhythm Changes master playlist. 227 songs strong. A little over 20 hours worth. A lot of bop and swing in that playlist...

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
    A lot of theory talk, which helps to re conceptualize the tune for sure. Gave me new things to try out and mix into that stew

    That said, this is hard bop at work by a genius of the genre. I'd love to just chat with Wayne Shorter, even if his chats become epics that Homer would be jealous of if he were still walking this mortal plain.

    Blues. Modal. Complex. Yes.

    But also, DRIVING. Art Blakey. Elvin, Elvin, ELVIN! The rhythm is a huge part of the hard bop idiom, in my mind. Maybe it's cause I have the same birth date as Max Roach, but man... what a difference great groove, rhythm, and time feel make. Melody and harmony start the story, but rhythm and feel sell the store--you know what I'm saying?

    This tune is a great laboratory to work on phrasing. Build dynamics. Dig in. Make it groove while making it dance above the groove.

    I love Sonny Stitt, Charlie Parker, and Bud Powell. But hard bop... I know I'm not alone here. Hard bop hits you in your gut while lifting your spirit. Extremely visceral yet inexplicably beautiful.
    The bluesy side of hard bop is what gets me the most, that Blakey back eat, Bobby Timmons, Lee Morgan, Wes. Call "Moanin'" at a jam and people start dancing, and shouting.

    John

  21. #45

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    Very fine contributions from John and ronstuff, I enjoyed them both. Nice mixture of blues and modern sounds in your solo, John. Very relaxed playing in yours, ronstuff.


    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    The bluesy side of hard bop is what gets me the most
    John
    I'm with you there.

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

    The A section is G blues. You gotta watch that third a little...I kinda feel the "third" in that section of the tune lives between m3 and M3, so to speak.
    since i'm not contributing i'll keep it short.

    to me the tune is an 8 bar blues. i count in 6/4. one turnaround is one bar. blues in G usually has Abm7 Db7 in bar 4 (see west coast blues), this one has Ebm7 Ab7. bar 5 to 8 are missing, it's straight to bar 9, the Bm and Cm replacing the IV and V chord and it's back to tonic. it's wayne's version of "all blues".
    Last edited by djg; 02-20-2021 at 08:58 AM.

  23. #47

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    Ron, man sounds great...drumgenius with a real bassist makes for a great rhythm section. I like how you break out of the blues approach a lot of us are taking a bit, you sound hip, modern.

    John I gotta admit, I was worried, because it seemed like you were rushing on the head, getting excited for what was coming, I guess! But then you settle in nicely during the solo. I really, really loved some of your faster bits over the sus chords...thats the "build tension" point in the form and you sure did. How did you think about them??

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
    As someone who used to chill with you, and talk your EARS off about ear training back in the day...

    These tunes ARE your jam. Get into the rhythm and groove of these hard bop tunes. If we were playing these at a live session, you would be encouraged to reach back into that Psychobilly bag of tricks and drive the band. Then the band would drive you. Hard bop is all about the interaction... which we miss here unless we play with real people Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I've heard that Hard Bop is closer to Swing than Bebop.

    You can dance to Art Blakey and Elvin. As beautiful as Bebop is, it's hard to dance to--but there is still a dance in that music as well. I say this as I continue to build my Rhythm Changes master playlist. 227 songs strong. A little over 20 hours worth. A lot of bop and swing in that playlist...
    I dig hard bop, Horace Silver compositions are my favorite. To me a big appeal of this style- catchy heads, usually. I do like bebop more as a language than actual music. Sorry to say, bebop heads are mostly scholar material for me. Hard bop is of course bebop in its core, but plus blues, plus better thought out arrangements, better recordings too. I think it's a natural evolution.

    But this Wayne Shorter's one is a bit of modal jazz too, am I wrong?

    Btw, special request for future jams, Horace Silver? (Nica's Dream!!!)

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Ron, man sounds great...drumgenius with a real bassist makes for a great rhythm section. I like how you break out of the blues approach a lot of us are taking a bit, you sound hip, modern.

    John I gotta admit, I was worried, because it seemed like you were rushing on the head, getting excited for what was coming, I guess! But then you settle in nicely during the solo. I really, really loved some of your faster bits over the sus chords...thats the "build tension" point in the form and you sure did. How did you think about them??
    I did rush the head a little, especially the last 4 bars. I haven't got that part completely burned into muscle memory/feel. Also, I had spent a good bit of time trying different ways to record playing through an amp, none of which sounded any good. So I went back to doing everything "in the box". At that point I was kind of sick of playing the head and didn't give it proper care, but I feel like I need it to set up a solo.

    For my first solo chorus I was pretty much trying to channel what Shorter does - pentatonic licks over the vamp, something transitional on the Ebmin Ab7 change, pedal point on the 7sus chords, turnaround. On the sus chords he does these false fingering licks and I had it in mind to try to play something kind of like that. The actual notes weren't planned out, but the shape of it was.

    The later choruses were less specific. For those I was basically trying motifs moving them around as I heard them, trying to be conscious of varying fast and slow bits and play phrases rather than just a stream of notes. I wasn't thinking much about the harmony.

    John

  26. #50

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    yea cool tune. It's interesting all these tune are like from when I was a kid. I played them in late 60's and 70's.
    ( back when I has some chops) . Anyway... Shorter composes in Blocks of sound and then used basic expanded Function.

    By that I mean, we all know understand the Tonic and Dominant thing right, V I and all the versions of. When we get into Modal and expanded Functional movement.... (sorry trying to keep it simple). Anyway Modal Function is almost always Subdominant and Tonic. And what you get is more choices of using Relative relationships with modal function.

    Try just playing E-pentatonic and Cmi dorian over the two bar chord pattern.

    Gma7 F-7 / Ebma7 D7#9. becomes...
    E-7, Pent. to / C-7 dorian

    Which is also the B section. I know this isn't the place but, understanding modal functional devices and then adding Blue notes and MM is a large part of the jazz language for the last 50 60 years. I understand you can still spell changes and use major functional organization, arpeggios.... with embellishments....but if you want to get out of the vanilla framework, there are possible approaches.