-
Okie, here it is. The first take, and I did try a few. But the ones I thought was better sounded kinda contrived at the same time. Cant record too many on the same day I guess.
-
02-19-2021 11:44 AM
-
Nice one Hep!
Bluesy approach just work great on this tune. No two ways about it.
-
I hear ya...Shorter's stuff can be heavy.
But I have heard this tune called at a session, and my original intent was to focus on music that was a little more modern than a lot of the stuff folks talk about around here. And I do think this tune is accessible.
I'll be honest, I was a bit shocked people didn't know this song or Recorda Me or Beatrice...So I think these jams are good for opening people's ears to some new to them stuff.
-
I knew Recordame because it's in the original Real Book. Often called at jams and gigs for that reason -- at the level I was playing at for quite some time. I recall hearing recordings of it too.
Beatrice isn't in that book and is newer to me. But, I play with a pianist who calls it.
I don't recall ever having heard Night Dreamer. TBH, I'm only beginning to appreciate Wayne Shorter's music. I recall trying to get into it years ago and moving on.
Thanks to all for the feedback and the discussion about how to approach the tune.
-
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I also think it's an error to over-simplify Shorter's stuff too. Not if you want to do them justice.
-
Originally Posted by kris
Ragman, I liken Shorter's music to abstract art. People say, "I could do this." And they could. But they didn't
-
Hi guys,
I have to toss a volley from the peanut gallery, just to say these posts are GREAT !
This one in particular, if someone handed me this lead sheet I may have said " I'll sit this one out". Seeing you guys break this down is extremely helpfull !
You're a bunch of very good players and I had to tell you that you may be doing more good than you know.
Cheers,
Mike
-
Giving some more thought to the first two bars.
This is from the RB chart.
The lowest note in the chord voicings are as follows
Gmaj7 - G to F# (up a maj 7) in the bass. Lowest note in the treble clef chord is G. Scale, to my ear, G Ionian or G lydian.
Fm7 - G down to Bb. That makes the overall chord Abmaj7/G going to Bbsus13. Bb mixo, but let me call it Ebmajor for a moment.
This is interesting because the chord symbol is Fm7. The notes on the staff spell out Fm9/G and Fm9/Bb.
Ebmaj7 - Eb to F in the bass (up a 9th) with a Gm7 spelled out in the treble. So, the resulting chord is Ebmaj9. More Ebmajor.
Then D7#5#9, with the bass going from F# to D. The treble clef is F# Bb C F. That looks like Fsusb9/F# (which comes out of the Ebmelmin scale in the mini-theoretical lobe of my brain). Ebmaj can work, if you lower the G to Gb, which is Ebmelmin. An argument could be made for Ab13/D.
So, I end up with Gmajor, Ebmajor and Ebmel min.
But, knowing all that isn't all that helpful. The chords are moving too fast for me to think about individual scale choices and, for reasons which are frequently debated, the whole notion of individual scale choices is, arguably, a dead end street heading in the wrong direction.
But, knowing that three of the chords (not counting the Gmaj7) are all focused around an Eb scale, give or take a note, is helpful. All I have to do to avoid egregious clams is to think Gmajor. Then, for the next three chords, think Ebmajor and, when I get to the D7#5#9 remember to lower the G to Gb, which I can handle by ear.
When I recorded my clip, I hadn't thought it through that far. I think I realized that, if I started with a Gmajor triad, I could raise it to an Abmaj triad and sound like I knew what I was doing. I also realized that the same triad would give me #11 7 and b9 against D7. And, I played with those things in mind.
Upon further reflection, the same triad up a whole step gives Bb D F -- which are the top three notes in the chord spelled out in the chart.
And, then move it back down two frets to play Ab major triad against D7#5#9 and that will work.
With that much, I've got an idea for a little structure (same voicing of a triad in different harmonic contexts) and it's easy to play. I know the first one is over a G sort of tonal center and the others are over Eb something or other.
That's enough to avoid egregious clams while trying to make melody.
-
Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
-
And heeeerrreeeee's Johnny ....
Shorter plays G minor pentatonic riffs on this almost entirely. I'm happy to follow that lead, and also try to make it almost all little melodic cells and motifs. The part I find most tricky is hearing the Eb-/Ab7 change. Fun tune, but definitely a challenge to make it work quarantine style.
John
-
Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
JohnLast edited by John A.; 02-19-2021 at 10:07 PM.
-
Here I go! I LOVE Wayne Shorter's music and several of my original tunes reflect that! I had listened to Night Dreamer, but never played it... His tunes have such character and mood, I find they encourage improvisors to go beyond their usual devices.
This was recorded at a theater rehearsal studio with a bass player, and the Drum Genius app.
Last edited by Ronstuff; 02-19-2021 at 11:14 PM.
-
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
-
Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Yeah! Some really great lines in there!
-
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
-
A lot of theory talk, which helps to re conceptualize the tune for sure. Gave me new things to try out and mix into that stew
That said, this is hard bop at work by a genius of the genre. I'd love to just chat with Wayne Shorter, even if his chats become epics that Homer would be jealous of if he were still walking this mortal plain.
Blues. Modal. Complex. Yes.
But also, DRIVING. Art Blakey. Elvin, Elvin, ELVIN! The rhythm is a huge part of the hard bop idiom, in my mind. Maybe it's cause I have the same birth date as Max Roach, but man... what a difference great groove, rhythm, and time feel make. Melody and harmony start the story, but rhythm and feel sell the store--you know what I'm saying?
This tune is a great laboratory to work on phrasing. Build dynamics. Dig in. Make it groove while making it dance above the groove.
I love Sonny Stitt, Charlie Parker, and Bud Powell. But hard bop... I know I'm not alone here. Hard bop hits you in your gut while lifting your spirit. Extremely visceral yet inexplicably beautiful.
-
Hard bop is my music. Theres nothing I'd rather listen to.
-
Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
These tunes ARE your jam. Get into the rhythm and groove of these hard bop tunes. If we were playing these at a live session, you would be encouraged to reach back into that Psychobilly bag of tricks and drive the band. Then the band would drive you. Hard bop is all about the interaction... which we miss here unless we play with real people Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I've heard that Hard Bop is closer to Swing than Bebop.
You can dance to Art Blakey and Elvin. As beautiful as Bebop is, it's hard to dance to--but there is still a dance in that music as well. I say this as I continue to build my Rhythm Changes master playlist. 227 songs strong. A little over 20 hours worth. A lot of bop and swing in that playlist...
-
Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
John
-
Very fine contributions from John and ronstuff, I enjoyed them both. Nice mixture of blues and modern sounds in your solo, John. Very relaxed playing in yours, ronstuff.
Originally Posted by John A.
-
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
to me the tune is an 8 bar blues. i count in 6/4. one turnaround is one bar. blues in G usually has Abm7 Db7 in bar 4 (see west coast blues), this one has Ebm7 Ab7. bar 5 to 8 are missing, it's straight to bar 9, the Bm and Cm replacing the IV and V chord and it's back to tonic. it's wayne's version of "all blues".Last edited by djg; 02-20-2021 at 08:58 AM.
-
Ron, man sounds great...drumgenius with a real bassist makes for a great rhythm section. I like how you break out of the blues approach a lot of us are taking a bit, you sound hip, modern.
John I gotta admit, I was worried, because it seemed like you were rushing on the head, getting excited for what was coming, I guess! But then you settle in nicely during the solo. I really, really loved some of your faster bits over the sus chords...thats the "build tension" point in the form and you sure did. How did you think about them??
-
Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
But this Wayne Shorter's one is a bit of modal jazz too, am I wrong?
Btw, special request for future jams, Horace Silver? (Nica's Dream!!!)
-
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
For my first solo chorus I was pretty much trying to channel what Shorter does - pentatonic licks over the vamp, something transitional on the Ebmin Ab7 change, pedal point on the 7sus chords, turnaround. On the sus chords he does these false fingering licks and I had it in mind to try to play something kind of like that. The actual notes weren't planned out, but the shape of it was.
The later choruses were less specific. For those I was basically trying motifs moving them around as I heard them, trying to be conscious of varying fast and slow bits and play phrases rather than just a stream of notes. I wasn't thinking much about the harmony.
John
-
yea cool tune. It's interesting all these tune are like from when I was a kid. I played them in late 60's and 70's.
( back when I has some chops) . Anyway... Shorter composes in Blocks of sound and then used basic expanded Function.
By that I mean, we all know understand the Tonic and Dominant thing right, V I and all the versions of. When we get into Modal and expanded Functional movement.... (sorry trying to keep it simple). Anyway Modal Function is almost always Subdominant and Tonic. And what you get is more choices of using Relative relationships with modal function.
Try just playing E-pentatonic and Cmi dorian over the two bar chord pattern.
Gma7 F-7 / Ebma7 D7#9. becomes...
E-7, Pent. to / C-7 dorian
Which is also the B section. I know this isn't the place but, understanding modal functional devices and then adding Blue notes and MM is a large part of the jazz language for the last 50 60 years. I understand you can still spell changes and use major functional organization, arpeggios.... with embellishments....but if you want to get out of the vanilla framework, there are possible approaches.
RIP Nick Gravenites
Today, 05:48 PM in The Players