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02-25-2021 05:28 AM
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Another way of looking at that A section is that it’s half (well two thirds) of a Giant Steps
GS (in the same key)
G Bb7 Eb F#7 B D7
Night Dreamer
G Bb7 Eb D7
i don’t know if that makes it easier, but it means the tune is at least easier than Giant Steps haha
It also means that this tune might be a good halfway house to aim for before approaching Gs changes.
The difference is you can always play the blues scale on it... can’t do that on Coltrane changes!
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by christianm77
I avoid blues scale - it is too easy for me, although the effect can be impressive at times if you use the blues scale in a balanced way.
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There is another intersting idea taken from well known spanish progresion:
gm F/ Eb D.... can be Gmaj7 Fm/Ebmaj7D7
Very creative thinking...
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I'm glad that you changed your mind, Lawson and gave that tune a try. Turned out to be a fine one to boot!
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Seeing all this controversy, I thought I'd better have a go! I just simplify this tune to 4 chords: G(m), Ab7, Bm, Cm. Actually the hardest bit was playing the melody, trying to get the rhythms correct on that middle bit.
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Wayne uses the pentatonic, so *shrug*
I don’t see why you have to learn Giant Steps first. Learn ND first, and then complete the giant steps cycle later.
put a modified version of the ND progression in G/Eb and Eb/B and you’ve broken the back of Giant Steps.
D7 G Bb7 Eb
Bb7 Eb F#7 B
everything else is easy (2 5 1s) after that
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Well there you go
Note that Wayne has Bb on the G chord in the melody as well. So that’s how he heard it. And then there’s the solo.
but I’m sure theorists know how to play his music better than he does. The chord scale police would have arrested Wayne long ago.
BTW that backing track is a bit much. Is it an Aebersold?
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Yeah that’s what I mean by Chaconne. But it’s the same thing as the Andalusian cadence to use a fancy name. Or the descending tetrachord often seen in Baroque music.
Also ‘Hit the Road Jack’
Its very cool
Giant steps/26-2 etc extends the bassline into a full whole tone scale
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Its good practice to play with a piano player who feels compelled to play ALL THE NOTES. Plenty of those at jams.
TBF it’s hard to accompany a solo that isn’t there, even the for best in the business. If I was cutting a backing track record I’d get them to accompany a pre recorded solo on cans and cut it out
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The other thing that perhaps changes things is how low in the ‘mix’ the piano is compared to the horns on those Blue Note albums*, so the pianists can really crash around and it sounds great. In fact they kind of need to... I find it tough with this backing track though.
*yes I’m aware it was basically one mic, live in the room, but you know what I mean, acoustic piano some way from the mic.
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grahambop: excellent!
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Thanks Jeff. I kept thinking about how Wayne plays those wailing notes, plus the backing track is quite forceful (I do not mind that, it’s like playing with McCoy Tyner bashing away next to you!), all that just made me feel like digging in harder. I also added a touch of overdrive with a plugin, but it’s probably too subtle to notice.
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The first 4 chords is a kind of turnaround.
Gmaj7 Bb7/Ebmaj7 D7
turnaround Gmaj7 Bb7/Ebmaj7 Abmaj or Gmaj7 Bb7/Ebmaj7 Ab7
Blues scale/pentatonicks works nice over turnaronds .Look a 2 last bars of every blues tune.
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Okay so now you have me wanting to learn the melody. It makes sense and sounds great the way you play it! That was a really helpful solo in focusing on the 4 chord centers you noted.
So... I'm really glad I worked on this tune after all. Vindicating the principle of trusting the judgement of my musical peers and tackling something I'm not initially attracted to.
Your clip here cements that!
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The backing is about the only decent one on youtube, it’s from a channel called ‘M2’, I think someone said they make the Hal Crook tracks too. I don’t mind the loud piano, probably made me play with more oomph!
All this made me go and listen to more Wayne stuff and I noticed how much he returns to pieces of the melody in a lot of his solos, a good approach to take.
(edit: I see Lawson said it was a Hal Leonard track.)
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Very intersting version of Bobby Watson ...29th Street Saxophone Quartet:
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Thanks Lawson. Actually I didn’t really like this tune much at first, I wasn’t going to play it, but all the discussion made me tackle the challenge, and I grew to like it more. But I did feel I had to play the melody because it creates a mood and helped me get into the solo.
By the way I thought your solo was very good, nothing wrong with it at all!
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Originally Posted by christianm77
I love robo-jazz backing from BB/real tracks/ though I have almost all Aebersolds playalongs.
BB is a fantastic tool-you can organize jazz backgrounds in a very creative way.
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That's true. I have met him, since he lives just 60 miles from my home. He performed once here in Lexington, Ky. and I went to hear him and spoke to him a bit about the backing tracks, which at that time were a life-saver (pre-Band-in-a-box!) and my only recourse for realistic practice. He told me that the key is to have a soloist playing the tune and improvising, and that typically he did that for the recordings, though sometimes they might have someone else do it.
My only complaint with the Aebersold tracks is that sometimes the piano really plays very close to the melody, and if you are trying to play the tune, you bump in the piano a lot... which maybe is realistic after all...
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I am happy that LS start to love music of W.Shorter.
Best
Kris
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About Aebersolds playalongs-sometimes I cut piano and play with bass and drums.
It is very easy because of stereo separation.
why?
If you practise chord melody style the piano clashes with the guitar chords.
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Some of the Aebersolds speed up quite a bit as they go, but maybe that’s good practice for real-world situations!
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Nice take over ND.
Best
kris
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Originally Posted by djg
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Originally Posted by kris
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As we're waiting for other tunes, I thought, now the pressure's off, I'd revisit this one. Not hard this time. In fact, quite nice :-)
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Very nice, ragman!
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Blues sounds. Bound to be popular :-)
Floating pickup problems
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