Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Posts 101 to 150 of 250
  1. #101

    User Info Menu

    Whoa, also just found this. Joe on his favorite ES175 with a great ensemble (Pisano et. al.) really enjoying Nica's Dream.



    And here's the acoustic track:


  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

    User Info Menu

    I'll have to check it out. I really don't listen to much Joe, especially his later albums. The idea of all acoustic guitar sounds cool.

  4. #103

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I'll have to check it out. I really don't listen to much Joe, especially his later albums. The idea of all acoustic guitar sounds cool.
    Jeff-You are very good lider of the virtual jam.
    this is my $2

  5. #104

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    My thought to post these jams before the weekend is working out I wanted to give people a reason to participate early--and keep it fresh.

    I'm ready for Nica, but I'll hold off til Thursday. I can tell you that in my opinion, Nica is TOUGH. Gonna be a while before I feel like hitting that red button and capturing my playing
    I'm grateful that we have a little extra time to get familiar with the tune. I found different versions regarding the changes - is there some kind of "official" version?

  6. #105

    User Info Menu

    I believe this was the first recording?

    JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 6) - Night Dreamer-81hyggfwdxl-_sl1500_-jpg
    But the version on Horace-scope would be equally definitive.

  7. #106

    User Info Menu













    That's a start. That's just horns. For guitar, I like Kenny Burrell and Wes Montgomery.
    Last edited by PickingMyEars; 02-22-2021 at 02:57 PM.

  8. #107

    User Info Menu

    Quite good.


  9. #108

    User Info Menu

    Some versions do latin all the way through. Some do swing in the middle. Which do you fancy, Mr. Jeff?

  10. #109

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Some versions do latin all the way through. Some do swing in the middle. Which do you fancy, Mr. Jeff?
    Oh I think either is fine. I do love the old "Latin A, swing B" formula, so that's the route I'll take I think.

  11. #110

    User Info Menu

    Okee dokee

  12. #111

    User Info Menu

    Love me some Donald Byrd and Hank Mobley!!!

  13. #112

    User Info Menu

    While I love Wes Montgomery's version, anything with Brother Jack McDuff is gonna be funky:



    I am getting more and more into Kenny Burrell. I wrote him off before, but this guy was on just about everyone's album when they wanted a guitar. Him and Grant Green.

    Harold Vick on the sax from what I've found. Vick... man, totally underrated saxophonist. His stuff on Blue Note was limited but gold.

  14. #113

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
    While I love Wes Montgomery's version, anything with Brother Jack McDuff is gonna be funky:



    I am getting more and more into Kenny Burrell. I wrote him off before, but this guy was on just about everyone's album when they wanted a guitar. Him and Grant Green.

    Harold Vick on the sax from what I've found. Vick... man, totally underrated saxophonist. His stuff on Blue Note was limited but gold.
    I really liked hearing the guitar behind the organ solo.

  15. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    the mistake was to assume 'ear training' only relates to the audiation of pitch.

    EDIT: actually, no the problem, is more this. There's a divide.

    Audiation = the aural imagination in action. Hearing the music
    Ear training = the categorisation of sounds (most often pitches) by ear

    The first thing is actually WAY more important. Ear training - the ability to dictate notes to paper, is a reductionist activity ('I hear C#!', 'I hear eighth, quarter, eighth', 'I hear a sax section in four way close') which is a useful skill for a professional musician, but you have to hear it first.

    Audiation on the other hand is a holistic thing. You imagine the phrase with all its nuance. Rhythm is part of that. It is the specific trait that makes someone a musician.

    Gross rhythm can be what you might call 'syntactic' - for example, I can write down a Parker solo as a bunch of eight notes and so on, but what is going on with feel, accentuation, beat placement etc is a lot deeper.

    Which of course is the real value of learning solos, not simply writing them down as an assignment for class... And why I would always prioritise deep listening over ear training. Tristano understood this implicitly, for example.

    The side of it that people think is important - the playing of notes on the instrument, writing them down etc - is easily achievable if you have clear enough audiation, and enough time to practice. It's an easily quantifiable practice activity.

    Also, I hate the way many ear training approaches (not Banacos necessarily) focus on individual pitches, not phrases and other gestalts.

    And in jazz, I would say rhythmic audition is first in the order of importance. Usually pitches are pretty easy to work out once the rhythm is understood, as many jazz devices (bop scales, enclosure lines etc etc) are pitched manifestations of rhythmic devices.
    I guess the question then is how do you become a better audiator? I think people get all caught up in the Barry Harris system, but maybe the system is really more about audiation in the context of Bebop. He gives you some stuff to work with and then at the workshops you have to hear and repeat the phrases he generates in real time.

  16. #115

    User Info Menu

    We are fortunate to be able to see Wes in action on Nica’s Dream:


  17. #116

    User Info Menu

    Just in case anyone doesn’t know who ‘Nica’ was (she was a Brit for starters):

    Pannonica de Koenigswarter - Wikipedia

  18. #117

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Just in case anyone doesn’t know who ‘Nica’ was (she was a Brit for starters):

    Pannonica de Koenigswarter - Wikipedia
    Bloody hell.

    You're very quiet musically, Graham

  19. #118

    User Info Menu

    how many tunes were written about her?

    Pannonica -- Monk

    Nica's Tempo -- Gigi Gryce

    Nica's Dream -- Horace Silver

    Graham, I hope you are well. Would love to hear you post some of your musical goodness to Mr. B's little jam session we got here.

  20. #119

    User Info Menu

    Thanks, I’m ok, just been a bit busy with various things recently. I might have a go at Nica’s Dream though, it’s a great tune.

  21. #120

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
    While I love Wes Montgomery's version, anything with Brother Jack McDuff is gonna be funky:



    I am getting more and more into Kenny Burrell. I wrote him off before, but this guy was on just about everyone's album when they wanted a guitar. Him and Grant Green.

    Harold Vick on the sax from what I've found. Vick... man, totally underrated saxophonist. His stuff on Blue Note was limited but gold.
    wow, nice! This and Wes' one are my favs. I def dig more uptempo, energetic takes on this tune, it just comes to life better.

    Brother Jack McDuff is amazing in general, what would you call his style, like Soul Jazz or something? He's not quite a hard bop player, or is he?

  22. #121

    User Info Menu

    Nica's Dream it is not new for JGFS.It was presented 10 years ago.
    Nica's Dream for Jazz Guitar Forum Standards Forum thread by REG.


  23. #122

    User Info Menu

    I already know Nica's Dream, so from a selfish perspective wouldn't mind learning something new.

  24. #123

    User Info Menu


  25. #124

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I already know Nica's Dream, so from a selfish perspective wouldn't mind learning something new.
    +1 Christianm77

  26. #125

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    Reg you are GREAT player!!!!!!!!!

  27. #126

    User Info Menu

    Y'all are gonna burn out on Nica before we even play it.

    Re: learning something new, hey its a jam session...sometimes you know the tune.

  28. #127

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Y'all are gonna burn out on Nica before we even play it.

    Re: learning something new, hey its a jam session...sometimes you know the tune.
    sometimes?
    In fact, in a real jam, the musicians participating should know the piece well.

  29. #128

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    sometimes?
    In fact, in a real jam, the musicians participating should know the piece well.
    At a good jam, yes

    Of course in the real deal, its also cool to sit out when you don't know the tune. Here, nah. Take a chance.

  30. #129

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    At a good jam, yes

    Of course in the real deal, its also cool to sit out when you don't know the tune. Here, nah. Take a chance.
    As I see it, it will be a good jam because most known to Nica's Dream.

  31. #130

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    sometimes?
    In fact, in a real jam, the musicians participating should know the piece well.
    Ha, in fact sometimes you don't know the piece well not even on a jam, but on a gig too! That's why God gave us ears, hopefully them navigate us well out of trouble

  32. #131

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Ha, in fact sometimes you don't know the piece well not even on a jam, but on a gig too! That's why God gave us ears, hopefully them navigate us well out of trouble
    Indeed...and really, the best way to not sink in those situations is to know a bunch of tunes...the more tunes you know, the better chance you have making it through one you don't.

  33. #132

    User Info Menu

    You're talking about Nica's Dream because nobody here, including me, can play Night Dreamer. The only version worth talking about is the Shorter original and even then there's a lot of bravura playing covering up a multitude of sins. Professional band, good players, catchy rhythm, pentatonics, lots of flash and polish... but there's nothing on You Tube or Spotify that even comes close. No one else can really make it mean anything, including the professionals.

    It's not a rock blues, it's supposed to be hard bop. Fact is, it's disconnected and counter-intuitive. The brain's trying to find logical and musical coherence where there isn't any. Personally, I felt stupid trying to make sense of it. Wayne Shorter was really a bit unhinged and I guess his stuff echoed that.

    But Nica's Dream, nice latin/swing tune. Melodious, pleasant, and does just what you want a good tune to do. It may have been written after 1940, etc, but it's as good as any of those kinds of tune, or vice versa. Just a good Latin dance tune, or sounds like it. Thank god! We can play it!

    So we're mightily relieved, if truth be told, and running like hell away from the other one. No one understands it because it's crazy.

    Go ahead, tell me I'm a bad person, I can take it :-)

  34. #133

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Indeed...and really, the best way to not sink in those situations is to know a bunch of tunes...the more tunes you know, the better chance you have making it through one you don't.
    +1

  35. #134

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    You're talking about Nica's Dream because nobody here, including me, can play Night Dreamer. The only version worth talking about is the Shorter original and even then there's a lot of bravura playing covering up a multitude of sins. Professional band, good players, catchy rhythm, pentatonics, lots of flash and polish... but there's nothing on You Tube or Spotify that even comes close. No one else can really make it mean anything, including the professionals.

    It's not a rock blues, it's supposed to be hard bop. Fact is, it's disconnected and counter-intuitive. The brain's trying to find logical and musical coherence where there isn't any. Personally, I felt stupid trying to make sense of it. Wayne Shorter was really a bit unhinged and I guess his stuff echoed that.

    But Nica's Dream, nice latin/swing tune. Melodious, pleasant, and does just what you want a good tune to do. It may have been written after 1940, etc, but it's as good as any of those kinds of tune, or vice versa. Just a good Latin dance tune, or sounds like it. Thank god! We can play it!

    So we're mightily relieved, if truth be told, and running like hell away from the other one. No one understands it because it's crazy.

    Go ahead, tell me I'm a bad person, I can take it :-)
    I'm relieved that someone else had the same feeling. I know Wayne Shorter is supposed to be a genius and all, but honestly, Night Dreamer is probably one possible answer to the question "Why did people stop listening to jazz?"

  36. #135

    User Info Menu

    Night Dreamer is a great tune written by great W.Shorter!

  37. #136

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Night Dreamer is probably one possible answer to the question "Why did people stop listening to jazz?"
    if night dreamer with elvin jones, lee morgan, and mccoy tyner made people stop listening to jazz, maybe they didn't like it very much in the first place.

  38. #137

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    Night Dreamer is a great tune written by great W.Shorter!
    After the applause you can see that nobody wants to hear it.

  39. #138

    User Info Menu

    Wow, I don't know what to say...

    To me, Night Dreamer-- the whole album-- is an important work in jazz history, an early example of the type of music that would influence jazz for the next 50-60 years.

    I honestly thought it was a record like Kind of Blue, or Maiden Voyage-- one every jazz fan owned and loved.

    I guess I gotta get out more!

  40. #139

    User Info Menu

    I guess Rags and I are the heretics in the group!

    But sometimes it's better to be a heretic than an Inquisitor.

  41. #140

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by djg
    if night dreamer with elvin jones, lee morgan, and mccoy tyner made people stop listening to jazz, maybe they didn't like it very much in the first place.
    Agreed, that's one of the better ones. Still a lot of mad crazy pentatonic bashing though :-)

  42. #141

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Wow, I don't know what to say...

    To me, Night Dreamer-- the whole album-- is an important work in jazz history, an early example of the type of music that would influence jazz for the next 50-60 years.

    I honestly thought it was a record like Kind of Blue, or Maiden Voyage-- one every jazz fan owned and loved.

    I guess I gotta get out more!
    Must admit I tend to think of Speak No Evil as Wayne Shorter’s more influential album, some very memorable tunes on that one.

  43. #142

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Wow, I don't know what to say...

    To me, Night Dreamer-- the whole album-- is an important work in jazz history, an early example of the type of music that would influence jazz for the next 50-60 years.

    I honestly thought it was a record like Kind of Blue, or Maiden Voyage-- one every jazz fan owned and loved.

    I guess I gotta get out more!
    Everybody should get out more :-)

    No, you shouldn't take this personally, I'd never do that. It's a challenging tune, which I'd say was good for us. In its way :-)

  44. #143

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Must admit I tend to think of Speak No Evil as Wayne Shorter’s more influential album, some very memorable tunes on that one.
    Definitely...but I treat the whole stretch of Night Dreamer, Speak, Juju, even Adam's Apple and the All Seeing Eye as totally essential.

  45. #144

    User Info Menu

    OK, so you go to a jam session, and somebody calls "Night Dreamer" or some other not-obvious-how-to-play-it and/or outside(ish) tune. First, let's understand that this is a real-world phenomenon that happens. What do you do? Here are some options

    1. Complain about the tune, express disbelief that anyone actually likes it or can play, and try to prevent anyone else from playing it
    2. Say it's not your kind of tune, sit out, and say you'll play the next one
    3. Brazenly claim you know, and then proceed to spew seafood.
    4. Say that you don't know it, and it's unfamiliar ground to you, but will give it a shot
    5. Go to a different jam.

    Let's just say all have their plusses and minuses. I've seen all in action, to varying effects Number 4 is my go-to, but I'll sometimes go with 2. The problem with 2 is you may not get up again and/or people will keep calling tunes you hate.

    John

  46. #145

    User Info Menu

    Gentlemen, writing very strange things about Night Dreamer, I do not know why they provoke the playing musicians.Perhaps this is the result of a lack of factual criticism.

  47. #146

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    OK, so you go to a jam session, and somebody calls "Night Dreamer" or some other not-obvious-how-to-play-it and/or outside(ish) tune. First, let's understand that this is a real-world phenomenon that happens. What do you do? Here are some options

    1. Complain about the tune, express disbelief that anyone actually likes it or can play, and try to prevent anyone else from playing it
    2. Say it's not your kind of tune, sit out, and say you'll play the next one
    3. Brazenly claim you know, and then proceed to spew seafood.
    4. Say that you don't know it, and it's unfamiliar ground to you, but will give it a shot
    5. Go to a different jam.

    Let's just say all have their plusses and minuses. I've seen all in action, to varying effects Number 4 is my go-to, but I'll sometimes go with 2. The problem with 2 is you may not get up again and/or people will keep calling tunes you hate.

    John
    It'd be a bit of a jagoff tune to call if you didn't know the musicians/whether or not they could play it, really.

  48. #147

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    OK, so you go to a jam session, and somebody calls "Night Dreamer" or some other not-obvious-how-to-play-it and/or outside(ish) tune. First, let's understand that this is a real-world phenomenon that happens. What do you do? Here are some options

    1. Complain about the tune, express disbelief that anyone actually likes it or can play, and try to prevent anyone else from playing it
    2. Say it's not your kind of tune, sit out, and say you'll play the next one
    3. Brazenly claim you know, and then proceed to spew seafood.
    4. Say that you don't know it, and it's unfamiliar ground to you, but will give it a shot
    5. Go to a different jam.

    Let's just say all have their plusses and minuses. I've seen all in action, to varying effects Number 4 is my go-to, but I'll sometimes go with 2. The problem with 2 is you may not get up again and/or people will keep calling tunes you hate.

    John
    You left out: or you play it!

  49. #148

    User Info Menu

    As a matter of fact I like the complete album as a whole. And the others. As Jeff said, it's pretty essential listening if that's your bag.

  50. #149

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    It'd be a bit of a jagoff tune to call if you didn't know the musicians/whether or not they could play it, really.
    it's a great troll tune at sessions. make sure to be the last soloist and just wail the blues after everyone sounded miserable trying to make the changes.

  51. #150

    User Info Menu

    I love Wayne Shorter's compositions. I love Horace Silver's compositions. I love Benny Golson's compositions.

    I also love standards. Satin Doll is a beautiful tune as is Body and Soul.

    I am not a fan of Joe Pass's playing. Comping, yes. Single line stuff... doesn't do it for me. I've avoided certain Oscar Peterson albums because of Joe Pass's playing... I know, I sound horrible. I prefer Herb Ellis. I also dislike Pat Metheny's playing, but we aren't going there again I do like it when he plays straight ahead bebop acoustically though. Grant Green, love him. Wes, love him. Jimmy Raney, love him. Billy Bean, wish there was more of him to listen to--love his stuff! Billy Butler and Bill Jennings... wish I discovered them sooner for myself. LOVE THEM

    Everyone is entitled to their own likes and dislikes. Makes jazz interesting.

    As Mr. B knows, I also love old school hip hop--especially A Tribe Called Quest. I hope my likes all show up in my playing. One of my jazz heroes once told me that he could hear more about a musician in the first measure of a melody or solo than he could from a whole essay of explanation.

    For me, that means more playing and less essaying

    One day I'll follow my own advice
    Last edited by PickingMyEars; 02-23-2021 at 07:06 PM.