The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Not stewed goat or something, then. You were lucky
    Yak pizza was,naturally, on the menu

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I don't know if this is a weird question or not.

    When you listen to your own playing on these recordings, do you sound the way you want to?

    Or, stated another way, are you producing the sounds in your mind?

    Speaking only for myself, my answer is "partially". The tone isn't exactly what I want to hear. I imagine more varied harmonic content than I know how to produce. I struggle to be as rhythmically varied as I'd like. On the positive side, I can often feel the emotion I'm trying to express. The good part: it helps me focus on what I need to work on.
    i think that’s a great and also really complicated question.

  4. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Here's my contribution, warts and all:



    All comments welcome - thanks!
    Sounds good. Good phrasing, good sense of building on an idea. Towards the end, it seems like you ran out of steam a bit, but I think we're all having that problem. When the form and harmony are so static, absent a live ensemble it's really hard to keep it going.

    John

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Sounds good. Good phrasing, good sense of building on an idea. Towards the end, it seems like you ran out of steam a bit, but I think we're all having that problem. When the form and harmony are so static, absent a live ensemble it's really hard to keep it going.

    John
    Thanks, John. I think that towards the end I was a bit afraid of losing the form which to me is not surprising considering that there are 8 bars of one chord and then another 16 bars of the same chord without a turnaround...

    Also @ kris: thanks for listening and commenting.

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Thanks, John. I think that towards the end I was a bit afraid of losing the form which to me is not surprising considering that there are 8 bars of one chord and then another 16 bars of the same chord without a turnaround...

    Also @ kris: thanks for listening and commenting.
    Yup. IME, it's rarely called at jams because it tends to fall apart. 24 consecutive bars with no changes to cue the form tends to be a trainwreck.

    John

  7. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Yup. IME, it's rarely called at jams because it tends to fall apart. 24 consecutive bars with no changes to cue the form tends to be a trainwreck.

    John
    I can't tell you how relieved I am to hear others of more experience than me say this.

  8. #82

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    With tunes like this, players will often mark the top of the form in one way or another.

    A good drummer knows where you are in the form and will cue it with a fill that lets everybody know. Good drummers seem to accept this responsibility as part of the basic job description -- and it can be enormously helpful.

    Sometimes the bassist and chord instrument players will look at each other just before the chord change and raise an eyebrow.

    In a big band you may see players make a downward flick of the hand each time a rehearsal letter is encountered.

    One of my teachers once said, "everybody gets lost sometimes, the issue is how well you do in getting back on".

    I think tunes with odd numbers of bars, dropped or added beats (e.g. a bar of 3 or 5 in an otherwise 4/4 tune), and free floating harmony tend to be hardest. Oftentimes, the aforementioned signals are less likely, maybe because everybody is preoccupied with staying on the form.

  9. #83

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    I almost messed the form up on my soundcloud clip, the backing track kept me on it.

    Honestly, once you learn your basic scales, it may be more fruitful to just listen the recordings of different musicians playing the form. Dexter Gordon, Miles Davis, Grant Green, Coltrane all play great over this modal form. Listen and sing, then play on the old' guitar box. Analyze last. That gets it into your playing faster IMO.

    Tommo, your solo started off really strong. Solid phrases. Laid back time feel. I think confidence plays a huge role in all this--does for me

  10. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Yup. IME, it's rarely called at jams because it tends to fall apart. 24 consecutive bars with no changes to cue the form tends to be a trainwreck.
    Precisely, John, which is no doubt why I halved it.

    But, to prove I'm not afraid of it, here's a 16/8 version with enhanced bass just for you :-)



    By the way, these are the headphones I use. So you too can have that unique Ragman listening experience!

    Logitech H150 Stereo Headset with Noise-Cancelling Mic

  11. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickingMyEars

    Tommo, your solo started off really strong. Solid phrases. Laid back time feel. I think confidence plays a huge role in all this--does for me
    Thanks!

  12. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Precisely, John, which is no doubt why I halved it.

    But, to prove I'm not afraid of it, here's a 16/8 version with enhanced bass just for you :-)



    By the way, these are the headphones I use. So you too can have that unique Ragman listening experience!

    Logitech H150 Stereo Headset with Noise-Cancelling Mic
    The "bass" is a lot louder on this one, FWIW.

    John

  13. #87

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    I don't much like this tune. It's mainly because I run out of ideas over one chord for lots of measures. Still, I found myself enjoying it when I finally broke out the backing tracks. This is the end of the head (for transition) and 2 choruses. I felt okay until the last bit, and like many others, I sort of lost track of the form. Partly the track actually moves into the "head" style of comping before the out-chorus actually starts. That threw me off.

    If I were at a jam session and had to play this, pretty sure I'd just take one chorus. Better for folks to think I shoulda played two than shoulda stopped before I got lost!


  14. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Sounds good. Good phrasing, good sense of building on an idea. Towards the end, it seems like you ran out of steam a bit, but I think we're all having that problem. When the form and harmony are so static, absent a live ensemble it's really hard to keep it going.

    John
    Nice job! I especially like that each note has an intentional quality.

  15. #89

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    By the way, listen to Jimmy Cobb signal the chord changes...


  16. #90

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    I put it in my last post, but deleted it out cause it was too long.

    Learning to listen in phrases really helps.

    Like learning to hear what 2 measures of time sounds like or 4 measures of time. Get a metronome that can click REAL slow. Have the metronome click once every 8 beats. That's 2 measures of 4/4. Then go slower still, one click every 16 beats. Thats 4 measures of 4/4. Helped me improve my phrasing like night and day!

    Any good jazz rhythm section knows how to setup a phrase for a soloist. A pianist might do an octave pedal jab in the bass register every 2 to 4 measures. Errol Garner had a trademark of doing a skip beat on the "and" of 3 at the end of a 2 measure phrase when he played his trademark 4-to-the-floor.

    A drummer might do a hit or roll on the snare.

    A bass player might do a triplet pickup phrase.

    The band gives cues all the time. We just have to learn to hear them
    Last edited by PickingMyEars; 02-01-2021 at 07:15 PM.

  17. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    The "bass" is a lot louder on this one, FWIW.

    John
    You have surmised correctly. All I did was turn it up.

    I don't have a bass guitar so I play it on the acoustic into Audacity. You can then alter the pitch down 12 semitones and, voila, a bass sound. But it can get boomy if you're not careful which is why I tend to keep it fairly low.

  18. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    By the way, listen to Jimmy Cobb signal the chord changes...
    Ex-actly. Which is why I think, at jams, some person not playing should sit there counting the bars and, when time comes, wave their hands about or something. People would be so happy and only the moaners would complain they never saw it :-)

  19. #93

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    I actually think the form is pretty easy if you think about phrases.

    Form...its EVERYTHING.

  20. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I actually think the form is pretty easy if you think about phrases.

    Form...its EVERYTHING.
    If you think, full stop. Not that I know this from personal experience (yeah, right) but one's attention can drift, then you're lost in 24 bars of wilderness.

    John

  21. #95

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    Most of what I recorded tonight sounds like I was about 13 minutes into a wicked Playing in the Band from 1973. I’ll try again tomorrow.

  22. #96

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    It's very quiet, isn't it? I had an idea which might make the bars problem easier.

    I didn't use this trick over my previous version but, as this is basically a 32 bar tune, I thought of playing something I already knew over it. I took Summertime because it's a very simple minor 8 bar melody and then imitated the rhythm - or thereabouts - over the So What form. It does work, I never missed that Ebm once. As it's played sort of half-time it's not so difficult.

    Maybe a more complex melody might produce better results, I don't know, but it does keep you focussed. And then the secret is to disguise it sufficiently :-)


  23. #97

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    It is out-Summertime over static chord.
    If you attend a real jam session, anything can happen.
    A good rhythm section can help you, but they're just living people and anyone can make a mistake.
    You have to listen to each other and be sure where you are and what is playing ..
    A virtual jam with a backing track is not just an exercise.
    Last edited by kris; 02-04-2021 at 05:28 AM.

  24. #98

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    Here goes. I spent a few days trying to fight off old rock and roll habits that continue to haunt me. These were my favorite two consecutive choruses from tonight’s attempt.

    Last edited by wzpgsr; 02-04-2021 at 01:46 AM.

  25. #99

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    My suggestions - thinking about the 'So What' AABA 32 bars:
    AA-story / d Dorian 16 bars
    B-question / eb Dorian 8 bars
    A-answer / d Dorian 8 bars
    Maybe this will help with the phrasing of this modal tune which is 'So What'.
    Best
    Kris

  26. #100

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    I'd say Miles himself was doing phrasing. If you speed up the YouTube transcription you can hear it. It's not Summertime but there's obviously some shadow of a tune there. And he only had to do two choruses before another player took over.

    Summertime puts the flourish on the last line of the song but Miles was doing the flourish over the Ebm which might have been more effective.

    Or, of course, one can write one's own idea, again not too hard.