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Thanks John. I keep thinking how Jim Hall can pick two notes from a chord and just play them "just so" and it's great. ON these tricky tunes I think I want to try that.
Originally Posted by John A.
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01-23-2021 07:08 PM
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Yeah, that strikes me as the way to go on this tune. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
John
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I like Doug Raneys version
https://www.amazon.com/Beatrice/dp/B002R9JHKGmo
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There's the weathered adage of "you gotta just put yourself out there"
I discovered an adage of my own that I like better, "clean that waxy ego out of your ears and you'll hear better."
Humble yourself to hear your strengths as well as areas you'd like to grow. I am a prime example of self criticism run amok. That said, I only started making REAL progress in my playing when I started identified what I LIKED in my playing. That helped me build on my strengths and move from "my playing SUCKS" to "I need to work on the clarity of my rhythms" and "I need to be more intentional with how I outline the changes and create melodies."
I'll stop there. I want to post my playing more than my car salesman wisdom. I'm a teacher by trade, so it sometimes happens unconsciously. Apologies in advance (there I go again).
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Well, I got the opportunity to get together with a bass player today and still had the tune in my head. So here's another version! I didn't intend to post again and certainly don't want to be intrusive, but the timing was there... Recorded into a Zoom multitrack with my beloved 1960 Ampeg Mercury amp. Drums courtesy of the Drum Genius app.
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Here's one version: Beatrice Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Sounds great. I particularly love the tone on the chord stabs. Originally Posted by Ronstuff
What guitar? Any processing?
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Thanks! The guitar is a 1976 Guild X-175. I used an old Boss analog Delay(Dm2) at a very subtle setting. Used the reverb in the zoom recorder. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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I feel like I can get a good sound for single notes out of a solid or semi, but chords sound best on an archtop, I think. Your setup and playing sound awesome. Originally Posted by Ronstuff
And, I'm also a fan of the old Ampegs. My first amp, which I still use, was a '64 Ampeg Reverberocket, bought new when I was 14. Mostly, though I use a Little Jazz because it sound surprisingly similar to that old Ampeg.
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I found interesting version of Stan Getz.
why?...he use in Beatrice form Dmaj7 in 12 bar instead of Dm7...bar 11 and 12 looks like em11 A7/ Dmaj7.
Best
Kris
Last edited by kris; 01-24-2021 at 04:33 AM.
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Very fine playing all around!
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There is my short take/exercise about minor pentatonic over Beatrice.
I've worked hard on minor pentatonics last time so for me is quite easy.This is one of my minor penta thinking....anway chord changes are from Stan Getz version/em11 A7to Dmaj7/.
Best
Kris
There is a link:
BoxLast edited by kris; 01-24-2021 at 05:14 PM.
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Alright - I'm in...
Did some listening and practicing in the last two or three days to get an ear for the tune. Video clip is the actual first take, though. Turned out better than I anticipated, I was expecting a total trainwreck. Three choruses over BiaB backing track:
Any comments including criticism are welcome: if you think I suck then don't hesitate to tell me....
Last edited by TOMMO; 01-24-2021 at 12:01 PM.
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You suck!
Happy?
No really, I enjoyed your take TOMMO!!!
You played ideas that had a clear beginning and end. I like how you "built" the end of your 1st chorus into the top of the 2nd chorus.
Playing fast only works when you have something to say and can complete a "sentence." Look at Parker, look at 'trane. I'll take slow and lyrical over fast and bs any day. A true musician knows how to mix fast and slow to create tension build and release within a story. I don't have the chops to do that yet, but here's to dreaming!
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Ragman: that image fits your playing perfectly (or vice versa): very moody!
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It's cold here :-)
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One of the best guitar versions:
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Nicely done, and kudos for taking the plunge. Originally Posted by TOMMO
Alright - I'm in...
Did some listening and practicing in the last two or three days to get an ear for the tune. Video clip is the actual first take, though. Turned out better than I anticipated, I was expecting a total trainwreck. Three choruses over BiaB backing track:
Any comments including criticism are welcome: if you think I suck then don't hesitate to tell me....
John
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Had some time today to do this with a different sound and approach, trying to bring in a more sax-like legato-ish/fusion-y feel. First complete take. I screwed around for a while trying different sounds, and sort out various gremlins, though, so it's not literally my first pass through the tune.
Guitar: D'Angelico EX-DC
Amp: Garageband "Indie Scorcher" model (I think this is meant to be something in the Matchless vein) + the "Grit" distortion pedal model (meant to be a Rat pedal, I think)
Recording setup: GarageBand/Presonus AudioBox USB
Video Setup: The camera on my MacBook Air, captured with the Quicktime Player app. The computer records with a variable frame rate, which won't sync correctly with an audio track. So I pass the video through Handbrake (open source video processing software) to convert it to fixed frame rate, then import this plus the GB mixdown into iMovie, sync the two, trim, and add fade-in/out. This is why I often do just audio and/or do lousy sounding stuff on my phone because this is a PITA. The alternative would be to just play through an amp with the backing track playing through a speaker, and capture all that directly in QT or my phone, but I didn't want to make that much noise (and the PITA approach usually sounds better).
John
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Here goes. I did a few choruses and picked the one with the least flubs. Cool tune—never heard it before.
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Not much of a jazz-fusion guitar fan here but I enjoyed your approach nonetheless, John!
And thanks to everyone who took time to listen to my clip and comment.
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Well, at the risk of looking like a prima donna, and with apologies to those who liked them, I've decided all my previous versions of this tune are rubbish so I've deleted them.
Here's a nice simple frill-free version which will have to do. Roll on Friday :-)
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Hello John, Originally Posted by John A.
Some nice lines with distortion efect....but in my opinion for this kind of backing track/with walking bass/ is too much distortion.
Some great jazz guitarist use or used distorion playing modern jazz only as a color to clean sound/look at early John Scofield/.
If you find backing track of Beatrice in fusion style or funky style your distorted sound will fit much better.
...anyway nice feel.
Best
Kris
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In the interest of getting it done quickly and more-or-less spontaneously I used what I had. If I ever decide to do a more serious recording of this tune, I'll put together a more fitting backing arrangement. Originally Posted by kris
John
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Nice to hear and see (most of you) playing. Too bad my home-studio is wrecked, because I would have contributed.
This is really a spendid original by Sam Rivers. His Blue Note albums in the 60's-70's are really all great, both "outside" in very lyrical as stated by one of you above. There's a great version that was cut by Doug Raney with the great Bernt Rosengren on tenor sax. I remember working the hell out of Doug's solo 35 years ago...What an immense player he was. I miss him so much.
Be safe and take care.
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This is to long, but maybe it will be interesting to a few. I decided to play the melody and then try to use the melody for jumping off. Whenever I felt lost, I dropped back into the melody (well, most of the time). I tried to get my ideas from the tune itself. Obviously my own jazz vocabulary limits me, and trying still to just make the changes creates issues too. But I found this a useful experiment. Most won't want to listen to the whole thing--it's almost 4 minutes--but perhaps a few of the more beginner players such as myself will find some ideas and maybe try it yourself. I learned more from doing this than my actual playing probably shows.
If you find here any sign of hope for my playing, I'd love to know! And if you have some helpful advice, I'm all ears.
At least the L5ces is pretty!
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Tone is to die for and I like the way you approach creating melody. Lots of good lines. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Nitpicks only: seemed as if some phrases swung harder than others. That happens to me (regularly) when my mind wanders away from feeling the swing.
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Thanks and yes, I agree on the critique. There were too many choruses and I did indeed lose concentration or whatever a few times. But that guitar just sings. Sometimes I think if I could just not make any mistakes, play simple and clean, that L5ces will do the rest. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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I think it's great that you're straying a bit from your comfort zone and trying to improvise and experiment rather than transcribe and/or play something set, and I hear progress in what you're doing. I think the actual notes are fine in terms of hitting the harmony. It seems to me like you have more of handle on it in this version than in the other one, and the idea of using pieces of the melody as building blocks and bread crumbs works well. The one thing I did notice is that you're behind the beat quite a bit, but by differing amounts. Try tapping the beat along with your video and I think you'll hear what I mean. A lot of your notes fall a hair after the beat without feeling like that's on purpose (or on the head are noticeably late on chord changes). It's a problem we all have, especially with new material. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
John
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Beatrice is a one of most popular jazz tunes on Youtube.I found a lot of different versions of this tune.
As I see it is not so easy to play/improvise/ about it-not easy for non advanced players.
I found about 20 prof versions of Beatrice on youtube.Now I will start to analyse solos.It is a lot of work.
Best
Kris
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Wow, so much stuff here....that's wonderful.
I wanted to make sure to comment on a few people's takes who I had never commented on their stuff before...
wzpgsr, really enjoyed that. A really nice example of how to play slower lines that are rhythmically interesting and not overtly trying to swing and sounding corny in the process. That's deceptively hard.
Ronstuff, I've really enjoyed both of your posts, great tone, tasteful playing, totally in pocket. My kind of playing.
This has been a very enjoyable 2 weeks. Already looking forward to this week's jam.
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'October 29, 2012
The recent passing of saxophonist and composer Sam Rivers on December 26, 2011 was followed by an outpouring of critical praise: for his brilliant work as a leader and sideman, for the loft studio and performance space he operated in the 1970s, and more. But above all, Rivers is remembered for “Beatrice,” a deeply felt ballad inspired by his wife. First recorded on his visionary debut as a leader, 1964’s Fuchsia Swing Song, “Beatrice” bridges the gap between hard bop and free jazz, with a fluid structure that Rivers floats over to create the illusion of formlessness.
Part chord changes, mostly mood, it has since become a jazz standard and a staple of tenor saxophone repertoire in particular, covered by too long a list of players for this space. Similar to John Coltrane’s “Naima” for its muse, “Beatrice” is the product of one of the pivotal love stories of the post-bop era. After 56 years together, Rivers outlived his wife by seven years, and one listen to the song goes a long way toward explaining the longevity of their love.
Beatrice managed operations for Rivbea Productions, their company together, and was a fixture at Studio Rivbea, the Bond Street performance space that served as an incubator for then-underground jazz luminaries including Anthony Braxton, Hamiet Bluiett, and Henry Threadgill. The growing popularity of Studio Rivbea, coupled with his forward-thinking compositions, made Rivers a leading figure and spiritual guide for the ’70s jazz loft scene.
Though Sam Rivers continued pushing the boundaries of the avant-garde for the rest of his career, “Beatrice” stands out in the indomitable saxophonist’s oeuvre, a promise of the shape of jazz to come, a minimalist deconstruction of jazz convention, and a pure expression of love. Playing the tune is a bit like windsurfing; a balancing act that demands attention to its varying waves, but carries those who have internalized the free-flowing aesthetic and know which direction they want to take it.
Rivers wrote “Beatrice” as part of his daily composition ritual, when he thought of his wife as the ideas started percolating. Tony Williams, who Rivers met as a young teenager, had come over for their regular jam session, and Ron Carter stopped by as well. Rivers started playing the tune for them, and it quickly crystallized. Little did he know he was immortalizing his wife. Williams and Carter eventually served as the rhythm section on the original recording, abetted by pianist Jaki Byard, whose sumptuous block chords set the mood. It begins with a rubato piano intro typical of a ballad, but as the tempo picks up, Rivers never sacrifices the wistfulness and emotional charge of some slower standards, even as he maintains the propulsive force of a mid-tempo arrangement.
Rivers’s tone on tenor was the textural equivalent of a water bed, well-suited to his simple statement of the melody before he attacks the solo with smooth phrasing and double-time gliding phrases that never seem too overbearing even as his approach gets more aggressive. This sits in stark contrast to the rhythm section’s behind-the-beat accompaniment, a tension that’s released as Rivers tapers the end of his final chorus.
Ron Carter reappeared on Joe Henderson’s rendition of “Beatrice,” recorded live at the Village Vanguard in 1985 and released as The State of the Tenor, Vols. 1 & 2. Here, Carter abandons his more reserved earlier style, as heard on the Rivers version, in favor of a brash bass line that puts him front and center. Recorded in a trio setting, with drummer Al Foster, Carter assumes comping duties, playing chords throughout much of the performance. Henderson has a more feral sound than Rivers, and is given to a full exploration of the horn up to the peaks of its range. Channeling Rivers’s tone poem, he seems to practice a more rough-hewn brand of love given to trills and bleats, with Foster and Carter varying the dynamics along with him, but when it comes to the melody, not even Henderson is willing to abjure the written line.
Alto saxophonist Greg Osby is the nominal leader of the Blue Note New Directions project, though the saxophone line is conspicuously absent from this group’s version of “Beatrice,” released on New Directions in 2000. Instead, the band opts for a vibraphone-piano duet between Stefon Harris and Jason Moran. The two possess an instant chemistry, and arpeggiate their way through a loose version of the song, with shifting tempos and liberal use of the vibraphone pedal. The group slows down the original, and dispenses with drums altogether, developing a trance-like mood—more characteristic of Brian Eno than jazz—that bookends the piece and conjures yet another variation on the love theme that nevertheless rings true. Where the melody begins and the collective improvisation takes over is orchestrated seamlessly, unlike the more tightly woven Henderson and Rivers tracks.
Robert Glasper takes “Beatrice” in yet another direction on his sophomore release for Blue Note, the 2001 trio disc In My Element. He sets it to a bright tempo and a 7/4 meter. The odd time signature gives the impression of always hurtling into the next measure, perhaps to convey the butterflies in the stomach that even a man married as long as Sam Rivers was can still feel in the presence of his wife. As with much of Glasper’s work, he incorporates a funk and Latin influence, facilitated by drummer Damion Reid and bassist Vicente Archer, especially during the tune’s outro. Despite these seemingly complex alterations to the original, the emotive power of “Beatrice” remains undeniable, proving that it’s the rare tune that can be played at almost any tempo without sacrificing its head-over-heels heaviness, or perhaps its essential lightness.'
http://www.bluenote.com/spotlight/be...ale-of-a-tune/
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Ragman, nice article.
It is without a doubt a wonderful tune. As Kris points out, deceptively difficult, but also, in my opinion, accessible. You could just take the chords at face value, and the lovely melody, and play off those and be quite content...or you can explore the several "harmonic environments" the song sets up and revel in quite a bit more space.
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Exactly. Apart from playing standard bebop over it, you can do almost anything you like with it. There's a lot of lydian/dorian stuff. Also minor subs... or you can just float along happily as read.
In fact, it's really hard to contain it in a couple of choruses. It's just not that kind of a tune :-)
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Thank you for giving that very long clip such a close listen, and thank you also for your encouraging words and advice. I agree that the time is frequently "behind" and no, it's not because I'm trying to be laid back and hip! You rightly see it as an error. What's going on is that I'm losing my place, missing a chord change, etc. and it throws me off. Mainly it's hesitation. I don't have a lot of confidence when improvising, and this tune is for some reason inspiring me to give it a shot. Maybe it's the lovely melody which kind of asks for variations? Originally Posted by John A.
Anyway, you've given me a lesson on my clip that I will take to heart and think about as I continue exploring this tune. Thank you again for that.
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Thank you for this thread. It's wonderful to hear all your takes on this lovely tune, thanks for sharing them. Beatrice is one of my favorites and I'd been playing it on and off in live jam sessions for some time, though not lately. At the moment I'm unable to play or record anything, so I hope it's OK to share a past recording.
The other players are people who showed up for a weekly jam session that night last Fall, and I was trying out a PRS Studio through the house amp, a Roland JC-120. I enjoy playing the changes and agree it's crucial to internalize them, but I still usually find myself meandering after a couple choruses. Thanks for listening.
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I noticed a couple of people sharing versions by their favorite artists. Here's a gem of a recording from the early 80s, with Chet Baker and Bill Frisell. I've seen transcripts of Baker's solo on the net.
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I thought I'd do something with a backing track for that, you know, dynamic sound. Probably the last one but who can tell. Just getting round it, basically, nothing fancy. That's the good thing about this tune and also the bad thing - it doesn't matter :-)
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This is really cool, had never heard this! Originally Posted by JazzPadd
Really enjoyed your take as well.
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Just because it was mentioned in that awesome article ragman posted (thank you!), here is Robert Glasper's version:
Glasper was the only "modern" musician that I could really get into during my college days. Still love his playing. He's taking jazz forward by taking cues from popular hip hop & R&B song form whilst paying homage to the past. Plus, he's one cool mother... watch your mouth!
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My favorite most modern solo of Beatrice.
Brad Mehldau:
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WHAAAT?!? I've been typing about jazz for years to develop my expertise and... hang on. Hmmm. Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
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Thanks, and glad you enjoyed both! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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These first two weeks have been good for my soul, people. I hope everyone continues to participate.
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I heard Glasper at the Blue Note pre-Covid. He did a month residency there, playing in different configurations on different nights. On the night I heard him, he was playing piano trio plus laptop computer. The fourth player was on laptop, triggering spoken word and various sounds. It was spellbinding and I thought I was witnessing the future of jazz. On reflection, I'd say, one path forward. He advances the music without resorting to the sort of outside, sometimes atonal style that is another path jazz has taken. Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
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So I just posted this because I found a fun quote to use in the solo chorus, and came up with a couple ways to do the final 4 measures. Since I started working on this tune, I've had an "ear-worm" that I finally figured out and realized it could work in a solo. Since all the great players liked to quote things, here is mine!
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Lawson -
It's very nice but you're probably overworking it now. What you should do is forget it for, say, a week, wait till you're relaxed, then just sit down and bang something out. You'd be amazed. The brain's had time to absorb all the bits and pieces and it'll deliver.
I've noticed a thing with well-known players, the ones we all know, that what they play never sounds forced. You never become conscious of them thinking 'Oh, I'll stick that lick in now'. It just flows out because it's sufficiently internalised. Probably after years of playing the same kind of music, I shouldn't wonder.
Just a thought.
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I thought I'd take my own advice and see what happened... When I first did this (then unknown) tune I found it became rather 'formless', which it apparently does for most people; it's one of its charms. At one point I kept it going for about 20 minutes till I was sick to death of it and even then didn't feel satisfied. It was awful - in an addictive sort of way. Which you probably found too re. your 'ear-worm'.
Anyway, I just did this, as it came out, bearing in mind I haven't thought about it for some time now. I've noticed a couple of things. Before, I kept making the F-Gb-F sound like flamenco and I didn't want that. I tried to avoid it but couldn't, for some reason. You'll notice that I haven't done it this time. Well, perhaps a little. The subconscious strikes.
Then there was the ii-V-i in the middle. Before, I was avoiding using the D harmonic minor because I thought it sounded a bit sweet and didn't fit with the feel of the rest of it. But this time I just used it and it's fine. The mind is strange.
Then, before, I could never play an Fm at the end, I kept going back to an F major because it 'felt right'. Now it wasn't a problem. No force, it just came out naturally. Again, the internalisation process given a chance.
Your music is much, much better than mine. Your ideas are musical, melodic, and pleasant to listen to. I think I'm too basic, maybe boring, but at least I can play it without worry, too much cognition, and get a reasonable result. No prizes, but it gets by.
There you are, all my secret confessions! Not usually aired in public. So here it is, for what it's worth.
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Very nice take with jazz feel.Beautifull sounding jazz box. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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