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This weeks jam will be "Whisper Not," by Benny Golson.
The goal here is to improvise. Take a chorus or 3. Play with a track, or not. Don't overthink it. Everybody's cool here, and if they're not, we kick their ass out.
If you want comments and criticism on your playing, say so in your post. If someone doesn't ask for critique, don't critique their playing.
Keep it fresh. Don't spend all week working out a perfect chord melody. No need to play the melody at all. Let's just say its a given that knowing the melody is important.
Let's talk shop on the tune as we go. Talk about approaches, whatever. Ask players questions.
I'll start us off this week, ill try and post a new tune every Thursday night (yeah, I put Friday's date, it is Friday already in Belgium)
Have fun with this and keep it loose. All levels welcome. Make fun of a beginner and I'll harass you on every post you make here for the rest of your sad, pathetic life.
Here's one bluesy chorus on whisper not. Comments and criticism always welcome.
Who's in? Who's next? Post below!
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01-14-2021 09:01 PM
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Jeff, I'm not sure I get the project entirely. Is it just improvisation and no melody?
This tune, technically, has several parts/repetitions and there are stops/hits, a shout chorus, tags and a tag end... it's not that approachable, really, it's quite complex!
How do you envisage it done? Or is it all up to us?
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Nice bluesy version Jeff. Great tune, I’ve probably dabbled with it occasionally but not tackled it properly, might have a go at it.
The way I see it, it’s one of those tunes that looks quite busy on the chart, but really it’s just based around Cm, Gm and Dm (and the bridge is Gm). It only looks more complicated because Benny Golson puts minor ii-Vs in front of all of them (and 2 coming out of the bridge to get back to Cm).
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I don’t think you need to make it that complicated, we’re not trying to reproduce Benny Golson’s arrangements or something. You can just improvise over the changes as below. (I will probably play the melody as well because I like it so much!)
Originally Posted by ragman1
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Edit: I mixed you up with grahambop and posted the relevant stuff from lawson's original thread, but since you where a big part of that thread, it is irrelevant here. Originally Posted by ragman1
Instead I will post this classic
Don't overthink it, just play a chorus or two and take it from there
Last edited by Lobomov; 01-15-2021 at 09:44 AM.
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Very nice playing and a fine sounding Tele there, Jeff!
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Completely up to you, but I envision this as the kind of the opposite of the practical standards thread. No arranging, no deep dive, just a virtual "jam session," a tune gets called, everybody takes a chorus or two. Mind you, all of that stuff from the practical standards thread is important-- this isn't intended to compete with that or replace it. It's just to offer a different way of looking at a tune, one that jazz players need to be able to do. Originally Posted by ragman1
Melody doesn't have to be played, but you surely could. But the key is keep it simple, keep it brief, keep it about the improvisation, don't worry about tags, arrangements, etc. Just play the song like it'd be played at a jam with people you never met before.
Re: this tune and grahambop's analysis-- pretty much exactly how I thought of it here. Just played on some of the V's too. And yes, the melody gives a LOT of info about what's going on in this tune. I can't believe I hadn't played it before last night!
And thanks for the nice comments folks, hopefully a lot of people will take a chance on this and jump in. I look forward to listening.
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Nice playing and feel, "Mr B" -- I like it!
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Thanks. Well, I've done it while you've been posting.... Played the melody because I think it helps 'cement' the feel and done some improv. The tag ending is too fast for my thumb so I've simplified it and faded out. Hope that's all okay. It is what it is :-)
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That's funny, that's just what I didJust put your lips together and blow
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Graham -
I just saw it as a lot of repetitive minor ii-V's. Not very bluesy in the end, though.
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Not a bad first impression, I'd say. And don't sweat the tag, even Benny didn't always play it. Originally Posted by ragman1
The melody really does establish the feel on this one. If I keep the melody in mind it prevents me from running a bunch of ii-V's, which I think is good.
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Jeff -
Good advice. I used harm m's the first time then deserted them the second. Agree about the tag, can't see the point. I think the start/stops at the beginning are probably important although I think they drop them for the solos.If I keep the melody in mind it prevents me from running a bunch of ii-V's, which I think is good.
I have to say I'm having trouble hearing bluesy on the chords, don't know why. You did rather well there :-)
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Thanks--my issue is turning the blues off! Originally Posted by ragman1
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Yeah! I love your initiative. Today I checked the chords on iReal Pro looked like a Dorian C, Locrian A and a fake Phrygian D then used as V to the Dorian G. I listened to Anita O’Day, Al Jarreau, and Art Blakey. I hope to have time to transcribe the melody tomorrow to find if my chord perception is ok. And to really get to know the melody. I hope more people pick up on this, it’s a great song a bit Dizzy like and Dizzy is one of my favourites. So bear with me another week and I’ll do my very first jazz improvisation on guitar.
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I do not understand ...is it a jam?
Everyone has a different background.
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I liked it a lot, and it gets better as I get more familiar with the sound of the progression. I think the primal version also has a very bluesy approach. Great guitar sound too, reminded me of JJ Cale. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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You can use whatever backing you like (or none if you prefer), there’s no rule about it. Originally Posted by kris
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Yeah, literally just "take a solo on the tune." I like the 1 or 2 chorus rule. The idea here is to hear a bunch of different players approach a tune, and then ask questions and talk about ideas you like... Originally Posted by kris
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So glad you're getting in! Originally Posted by Eck
You can make this tune really simple, just 3 blues scales, Cm, Gm, Dm. Lots of good sounds in just that, no modes needed.
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There is my 2 choruses solo over Whisper Not.
Hope you like it.
Coments welcome
Box
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Love the nylon string. Beautiful lines and recording. Rock solid bassist as well. Originally Posted by kris
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Wow, that was great! I wouldn't want to have to follow you at a real jam. I would be keeping my guitar in it's case. Do you have any insights to share regarding your approach? Originally Posted by kris
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Great. In time, backing not too loud, all the right notes + bluesy bits. You make it look easy :-)
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Sounds great rp, nice relaxed feel.
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back at ya, Mr B. I liked your lines, time and chops. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Ragman: Nice job! Time feel is especially good. Tone works great. Nice melodic lines. Well done! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 01-17-2021 at 05:21 AM.
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Excellent, rp - enjoyed it!
(everybody else's contributions so far as well)
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Hi, Originally Posted by alpop
Thanks for a nice coment.
Do not worry...do not afraid me at jam...;-)
I try to play melodicaly with good feel...this is very important for me.
Most important thing for jazz musicians is playing live...ofcourse today is very difficult and sometimes imposible.
So before pandemic time I played a lot of gigs and I had a lot of jams-so what I play today is a result of quite big expierience.
I try to play long lines and do not want to play licks/what I practise everyday/.I try to play what I hear and what I feel.It is very hard work to be jazz improvisor.Ofcourse I have a big colection of jazz CDs//piano,sax,guitars etc/.
I practise everyday/4-5 h a day/ on different guitars/hollow,Tele,Strat,nylon strings etc/.
This take I play fingers/right hand/ but on anothers guitars I use also picking technique-I work on relaxing right hand a lot.
Jazzingly
Kris
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I appreciate your response explaining where you are coming from. Focused hard work over time + listening + live performing = artistic achievement Originally Posted by kris
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Nice Playing! Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
This solo can be more "jazzy" without vibrato articulation on some notes.
Cool,clean notes ...reason why I like hard tension strings/13-14/...:-)
...Anyway nice feel.
Jazzingly
kris
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Currently learning the tune - melody and chord progression. Not sure if I will feel comfortable enough to contribute but it's a great tune to learn anyways - so thanks, Jeff!
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I really enjoyed learning this tune. Here is one chorus of soloing. I'm not proud of all my decisions, but in the spirit of the thread, I'm sending it out anyway! Criticisms and suggestions are welcome.
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Nice! I liked the lines! I'm guessing you're already implementing my usual suggestion - scat sing to the chords and, when you sing something you like, put it on the guitar. Originally Posted by alpop
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Sounds great! Originally Posted by alpop
I really don't have much to critique as far as one chorus goes...I guess I'd just say if you were to take more than one, stray further from the space the melody takes up with your lines...but for a one chorus pass, this is exactly my kind of playing.
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Sound is great... but in my opinion play more straight 8ths notes...I hear to much triple notes feel in your solo. Originally Posted by alpop
Maybe this help
Jazzingly
kris
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Nice playing everybody!
Here is my effort. Backing Hal Leonard Real Book Volume 2.
@Kris: was your backing MrSunnybass?
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Now I played the first part on piano and really just two run downs on a minor chord and really to me the Locrian A chord is a Cm/A. The D7b9 feels a bit like when you go from C to F and insert an E7 in between. Nice to see how a I-vi-ii-V works if you start on a minor chord, the vi and ii get a flat 5 and the V a flat 9. Then a clever sort of turnaround.
That’s too me a way to interpret the progression in the way that I hear it.
Singing it in my head but no time to even record the chords yet. I may sing it wrong too with so little checking.
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Nice playing with a nice feel.Real jazz guitar sound! Originally Posted by hohoho
MrSunnybass -yes.There are o lot his bass comping on youtube.
Jazzingly
Kris
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You have discovered one of the two ways boppers handled m7b5 chords. Which is that m7b5 chords aren’t actually a thing, all m7b5 chords can be sensibly handled as minor chords a minor third higher. (The other way is to relate then to dominant chords a major third lower.) Originally Posted by Eck
Basically if you think you have to learn separate language for a m7b5 chord you don’t. I daresay you know a lot more dorian and melodic minor stuff than locrian.
Also we have that m3 relationship as well - you can go Cm Ebm on Am7b5 D7
This sort of descending bass progression makes that relationship plain.
As Joe Pass said there are only major, minor and dominant chords. The trick is to see through their disguises.Last edited by christianm77; 01-18-2021 at 08:56 AM.
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Thanks to all for the encouragement and taking the time to listen, and comment.
rpj: I have done that scat thing in the past. My current method for getting new ideas into my playing is to steal a phrase that I like and then play it in different keys, adapt it to different chord qualities, add pickup notes (enclosures), change the timing, etc. Choose a different idea everyday, move on, and hope to see some of that pop up in my playing.
mr.b: Thanks for getting this up and running! Next tune I may try two choruses and stray a bit further.
kris: Much appreciate your comment on feel. A little too bouncy, bouncy? I have never been cool.... I will give that some serious consideration.
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I haven’t had the chance to listen yet but this is a common problem with learners. Originally Posted by alpop
Advice:
- Never try to swing;
- keep your playing smooth and even.
- practice saying the ‘ands’ at a tempo to get feeling of the upbeats.
- practice your scales accenting the ‘ands’ (but again don’t try to swing.)
That usually sorts people’s swing feel out fairly quickly
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From that last line I would think the eb is the note to which a solo in that section relates. (But then I saw a video where within a major setting the IV went minor and all soloist fell on that m3 of the iv (or the m6 of the tone c) like a tonne of bricks whereas I would get on the 2 of the tonic for a nice diminished feel. So maybe my conclusion is overly obvious to the experienced) Originally Posted by christianm77
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Hohoho, sounding good! Originally Posted by hohoho
I like your snappy tone too...strat?
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Jeff -
Sorry, how often will you be changing the tune? Not that I'm wanting it gone :-)
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Participation seems pretty good. I think weekly, with of course the understanding that not everybody is going to be able to do every one. Originally Posted by ragman1
I want to get to where other folks can call tunes, too, not just me.
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hohoho -
Nice!
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I want them to be a surprise, ones that I don't know and wouldn't have thought of myself. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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There’s a lot to be said for not always outlining the changes in the most obvious way possible. Standards melodies are often more diatonic than you’d think.... Originally Posted by Eck
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