The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlemos
    Hi JohnW400

    Please see my response to "fep". When you have had the chance to read the article, I would really appreciate your feedback. The article is at:

    Jazz Guitar Improvisation Using Pentatonic Chord Scales

    Thank you very much for your response. Best wishes,

    Ron
    Ron,

    I had a chance to look over your articles today. It's a different approach than most jazz players and you 've done a lot of work on it.

    Your method makes it easy for the rock blues player to crossover. That's a good thing but it I can just picture going to a Guitar Center now and some little kid will be spewing off pentatonic riffs to Giant Steps thinking that that's all there is. Banging his head away like Coltrane had played with Metallica

    But If it opens them up to more things then that's good.


    However I would not think of this method as the do-all or a complete guide. Missing are the more outside uses of the pentatonic like D major pentatonic against C for a Lydian sound, or Db against a C for that 7b9 sus4 sound. (Never mind the possibilites from the minor version or kumoi scale)



    Regarding making new pentatonics by dropping notes from the modes, well, I just think they're an arppegio and are better left that way

    You can see in the my example above that following the arppegio formulas will get you more pentatonics than you could find by dropping notes out of just about any of the common 7 note scales. I think they're also easier to think of theory wise. All you do is add some kind of 2,4 or 6 to the basic 1357 formula.

    Good luck with your book

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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW400
    Your method makes it easy for the rock blues player to crossover. That's a good thing but it I can just picture going to a Guitar Center now and some little kid will be spewing off pentatonic riffs to Giant Steps thinking that that's all there is. Banging his head away like Coltrane had played with Metallica
    I think that may be one of the signs of the coming Apocalypse. Let me know if you see it come to pass.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    I think that may be one of the signs of the coming Apocalypse. Let me know if you see it come to pass.
    Hey Ron...your materials way cool...and I'm sure it helps a ton of players get some early gratification... all good but at some point if your going to play jazz ...I think you need to get the basics. And for an analogy; would be like learning to paint, without all the colors. What you believe you just painted is really... Well I hope you get my point, I'm not trying to criticize and apologize now if taken in that manor. I just fear and somewhat agree with BigDaddy and not just in music. Optimistically Reg

  5. #29

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    Hi all, A Vic Juris video was posted a bit back about pentatonic scales.I can understand why some people seem not to like the idea of instant jazz.But perhaps the people using these ideas dont want to learn all the theory and lock themselves away for the next decade practising.It all depends on what an individual wants out of there own music, and to what standard they want to be at.I would have thought that Dr lemos is just trying to open things up a little and perhaps even the most talented out there may be given a new idea or two and that can never be a bad thing.
    To be honest you would still have to be able to play the guitar to take full advantage of the system,even more so to play over Giant Steps.
    Cheers Tom

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    And for an analogy; would be like learning to paint, without all the colors. What you believe you just painted is really...
    Well, Picasso had a Blue Period, why can't I had a blues period? (Couldn't resist!)

  7. #31

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    Hi Everybody,

    Great comments today from BigDaddyLoveHandles, oilywrag, Reg, and JohnW400.

    I have a bit of bad news. On my website, I have posted an article (and mp3 files) that I did for JUST JAZZ GUITAR (February 2009) entitled, "Shredding Giant Steps With The Basic Pentatonic Scale".

    Jazz Guitar Improvisation Using Pentatonic Chord Scales

    In this article I show how to solo over "Giant Steps" using only the the basic shape of the pentatonic scale that we all first learned.

    The
    Apocalypse may be closer than we think!

    Thanks once again to all.

    Ron


  8. #32

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    To complete the portents for the "End of Days", you must get several piercings then play this on a pointy guitar at GuitarCenter. The Rapture is nigh, comrades!

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlemos


    In this article I show how to solo over "Giant Steps" using only the the basic shape of the pentatonic scale that we all first learned.


    Ron, this is a very valuable step applying pentatonics to Giant Steps and the like. A next step most valuable step, I think, is to play over the changes using those same pentatonic scales, but find forms that allow you to stay in just one or two positions at a time. For me this helped find melodies that do not sound like they are completely made up of moving constant structure patterns -- which tend to create a mechanical affect. Also try playing just on one string (yes with pentatonics). No small challenge for me, but it seems to help greatly with the melodic side of improvisation. Course these two ideas are likely to already be familiar. I am just sharing the fun -- letting concepts re-circulate a bit more.

    Might even help postpone the Apocalypse!

    By the way, my personal taste leads me to want "avoid" notes in my playing -- whether or not I use pentatonics -- even for "inside" playing (as embelishments). That does not mean I do not appreciate the value of the method you have presented. Thanks again for sharing it.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkorm
    Ron, this is a very valuable step applying pentatonics to Giant Steps and the like. A next step most valuable step, I think, is to play over the changes using those same pentatonic scales, but find forms that allow you to stay in just one or two positions at a time. For me this helped find melodies that do not sound like they are completely made up of moving constant structure patterns -- which tend to create a mechanical affect. Also try playing just on one string (yes with pentatonics). No small challenge for me, but it seems to help greatly with the melodic side of improvisation. Course these two ideas are likely to already be familiar. I am just sharing the fun -- letting concepts re-circulate a bit more.

    Might even help postpone the Apocalypse!

    By the way, my personal taste leads me to want "avoid" notes in my playing -- whether or not I use pentatonics -- even for "inside" playing (as embelishments). That does not mean I do not appreciate the value of the method you have presented. Thanks again for sharing it.
    Hello gkorm,

    You are exactly right in terms of the "next steps" you have suggested. Doing the exercise in one/two positions, using the other 4 shapes of the basic pentatonic scale, would be a great exercise. In the article, I only propose the first step. In my book, I have an entire chapter devoted to improvising over "Giant Steps" (concept in article came after the book). In the book, I do more of what you are describing. I use different pentatonic scales and pentatonic scale shapes to show how they work in the Giant Steps chord progression (also demonstrated with sound files of the examples).

    You are obviously an advanced player. I really value feedback from guitarists such as yourself on the concepts that I have developed. Many advanced players automatically reject any concept they have not encountered before. Thank you for your open mind and giving my stuff a chance. Ron

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlemos
    Hello gkorm,

    You are exactly right in terms of the "next steps" you have suggested. Doing the exercise in one/two positions, using the other 4 shapes of the basic pentatonic scale, would be a great exercise. In the article, I only propose the first step. In my book, I have an entire chapter devoted to improvising over "Giant Steps" (concept in article came after the book). In the book, I do more of what you are describing. I use different pentatonic scales and pentatonic scale shapes to show how they work in the Giant Steps chord progression (also demonstrated with sound files of the examples).

    You are obviously an advanced player. I really value feedback from guitarists such as yourself on the concepts that I have developed. Many advanced players automatically reject any concept they have not encountered before. Thank you for your open mind and giving my stuff a chance. Ron
    Hi Ron, You are welcome. Good luck with the book! I think it would be cool to keep track of what players come up with using your ideas -- assuming you invite your readers to stay in touch. Hope it bears plenty of tasty musical fruit.

    George

  12. #36

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    Ron,
    I had a chance to go over the diminished lesson in JJG. Your approach is very interesting. When applied in your examples the penta scale "fits" while avoiding the perpetual diminished cliches we all hear. Your explanation that there are TWO diminished scales for a given root got my attention. I have always considered only the WH scale as a dim. Just when you think you've got it down here comes the curve ball.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzbender
    Ron,
    I had a chance to go over the diminished lesson in JJG. Your approach is very interesting. When applied in your examples the penta scale "fits" while avoiding the perpetual diminished cliches we all hear. Your explanation that there are TWO diminished scales for a given root got my attention. I have always considered only the WH scale as a dim. Just when you think you've got it down here comes the curve ball.
    Hello, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to provide feedback. Even more importantly (to me), you started off your post stating that you actually read the article. This is important to me because I got murdered in another user group (google jazz guitar forum) by people who started off with, "Even though I have not read your article, I hate it/you because.....". I appreciate this group because people seem to be able to keep an open mind to different views and approaches.

    Anyway, I am glad you found article interesting. The theory is great (and included in the article), but my approach focuses on using concepts in playing actual tunes that you want to play. This may have been a "curve ball" for you but in my opinion you've hit it out of the park!

    Best wishes, and thank you once again for your interest.

    Ron

  14. #38

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    Hi Ron,

    I just bought your book and am in the process of reading my way through it and listening to the sound files on the accompanying CD just to get my head around all of this before I actually start practicing it on the guitar.

    I have made it to page 92 (again mainly just reading and listening - i have limited my playing thus far to just sampling the pentatonic chord scales up to Locrian) - and would like to disabuse everyone of the notion that this is "instant jazz".

    In my opinion, you are to be congratulated for putting this system together and packaging it in a high quality format. There is a TON of valuable information in this book and it will take me many a weeknight and weekend to make my way through it all. I, like many who came over to jazz from the rock world, am familiar with the minor pentatonic scale and I am also familiar with the modes of the major scale. Combining a pentatonic and modal approach to create this hybrid system is really an accomplishment, and in the few years I have been struggling to learn how to play jazz, I have not encountered anything that resembles this approach (and I have a LOT of books).

    Again, this approach is not instant jazz. All these scales need to be learned and digested, and then their application in different situations needs to be learned and digested (i.e. the material in Section 2).

    One of the concepts that reading your book and listening to the sound files has really driven home to me is the importance of seasoning one's modal based solos with major and minor blues - it really makes a huge difference in the overall sound and feel of a solo. I now understand why my improvisation over standards sounds like bad smooth jazz and not like what I want it to sound like - I have consciously left out blues and pentatonics in an effort to concentrate on modal and diatonic scalar lines and arpeggios - probably something that most people on this forum already know, but it took your book to drive it home for me.

    Also, thanks for being on the forum. No doubt your presence here and input will make learning from this book a more enjoyable and enlightening journey.

    Best-

  15. #39

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    Hi bob32069,

    Thank you so much for supporting my book and taking the time to provide feedback. I am so happy to get similiar responses from virtually everyonge that has actually looked at my material. You are right on target that it is not "instant jazz". I am showing a total system of playing that works on any song or chord progression, yet it can be used no matter what level of playing you are at. As you know, I have over 200 examples recorded on the accompanying CD. Not one is a recording of a scale. Every single example is an actual melody or lick that uses the material in each chapter.

    If you have not done so already, make sure to check out my YouTube video on the Dorian Pentatonic Scale from Chaper 3 where I show how to use it on the verses to "Misty":

    YouTube - Kanaal van rlemos

    Also, I demonstrate the Mixolydian Pentatonic Scale from Chapter 6 on the bridge to the "Rhythm Changes" chord progression:

    YouTube - Kanaal van rlemos

    These videos were done to complement the book and to show that even if you just "run" the scales, they will still sound good in an actual song. What I believe makes my book and videos different is that I show how YOU can use the material, as opposed to showing that I can.

    Anyway, please keep in touch. What I am really looking forward to hearing is how you incorporated my approach into songs you are working on.

    Best wishes and thank you so much once again.

    Ron