The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I've thoroughly enjoyed perusing this forum - so many thought-provoking ideas, links, and perspectives.

    Thought I'd toss an observation out here re: improvisation and see if I'm just confusing matters, in which case please set me straight...

    What I've learned from Chris Parker's "What I've Learned from Barry Harris" includes the idea that one can REDUCE the number of chord changes when improvising over a standard set of changes. E.g., a ii/V can be thought of as just a single longer V. This makes thinking about a ii/V/I a simple(r) matter of thinking about a longer V, resolving into the I.

    OTOH, Fareed Haque's excellent Truefire materials include his "substitution" principles, which seem generally to EXPAND the number of changes when improvising over a set of changes. E.g., for improv purposes, a ii/V can be thought of as a somewhat faster moving VI/ii/tritone/I... put differently, you can introduce additional tensions within the basic changes. There are other examples, but in no case do you reduce the number of chords involved ... either swap out/maintain the count or further increase them.

    To be clear, I've gained so much in terms of musical knowledge and confidence by exploring both of these approaches (with special heartfelt thanks to Chris Parker/YouTube and Professor Haque), I'm certainly not looking to initiate a right vs. wrong debate here.

    But I am wondering whether I'm simply missing a larger point here?

    In fairness, Haque notes that his additional chord insertions ("substitutions") might be most useful when facing a s-l-o-w moving set of changes, thereby introducing more harmonic content where it otherwise might be lacking in the tune. Harris's approach (per Mr. Parker) is about simplifying things without mention as to whether it's a fast tempo that demands it; it's explicitly intended to help the musician reduce thoughts about chord changes where musically possible.

    Okay, is there something else going on here that might help me bridge the divergence between Haque's invitation to add even more chord changes and Harris's encouragement to eliminate some of the ones that are already there?

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  3. #2

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    They are pointing out two ways of approaching something -- why not try/do both? [and then find a third way?!]

    Like you said, it's not "right/wrong."

  4. #3

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    Well, there is tempo and there is harmonic rhythm. I'm not certain but it sounds like you may be confusing the two. In other words "short II-Vs" as opposed to "long II-Vs".

    Short II-Vs refers to two beats per chord in a single measure. Long refers to one measure per chord.


    So, when playing a short II-V the burden of conveying two harmonies in the melodic line can be unnecessarily... burdensome - especially at a brisk tempo. The II chord was added to such measures by jazzers to create more harmonic movement and forward motion in the music. The composer only listed the V chord in other words. Another consideration is that the II chord has tones 2-4-6-8, which are the 5th-7th-9th-11th of the Dominant V chord, so depending on the order in which the notes are played you may have something, especially if you drop the 11th. In other words, a Dom9 arpeggio has the same notes as the II triad, so covers both chords.

  5. #4

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    As poster marcwhy states above it is unknown just what theories will provide you with your own "eureka" moment so by all means investigate all, but I can answer a bit for Dr. Harris by way of Chris Parks' tutelage.

    Truncating a ii- / V , as Barry Harris professes, is to see that the ii- (lets say D- related to G7) is already a part of G7.
    That is to say an arpeggio on the 5th of G7 gives you the ii-. So all things are there already in the V chord.

    From there you would interpolate that all arpeggios on each of the important intervals of G7 ie. the root, fifth and seventh will serve. That gives you G7, D- and F major over G7. (Try an F major arpeggio over a D-7 / G7 track!)

    Add to this all the permutations that BH's creative "etudes" give you on scales and arpeggios associated with G7 and all the measure time can be filled without having to consider separately the related minor chord.

    That isn't to say it's disregarded, it's just a part of the whole (smaller) picture.

  6. #5

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    Another thing is, look at some transcriptions of your favorite players or transcribe yourself. Instead of looking at some II-Vs that are constructed for educational purposes, look at what the players actually did/do.

    Charie Parker might play 3-5-7-9 over the II chord and then something predictable over the 5 chord. You could look at the those notes as a superimposed IVMaj7 over the II, or as 7-9-11-13 of the V chord if you choose to.

    So one question might be, who's "conception" do you want to most closely align with? Charlie Parker or John Coltrane? Dexter Gordon or Michael Brecker? Charlie Christian or Wes Montgomery? Wes Montgomery or Peter Bernstein? etc. you get the idea.

  7. #6
    It works both ways. Harris also uses different substitute changes to melodically improvise over simpler changes. Most of what I've seen is on the blues. Chris has some of these in the TILFBH vids.

    Jazz is a tessellation.

  8. #7

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    If I'm not mistaken, while BH does think of a ii-V as just a V there are a ton of "substitutions". For example, each V incorporates three important triads built on the root, fifth, and flat seventh. Then you have "siblings", which include the tritone, the dominant on the minor third, and a dominant on the major sixth. So, if my math holds, you have a choice of twelve different triads and four different scales to play over a ii-V. Honestly, that has never seemed simplified to me, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around BH material.

  9. #8

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    By the way, his name is Chris Parks, and the YouTube videos are ‘Things I’ve Learned From Barry Harris’. What a terrific series it is!

    What Barry’s wonderful method shows you is many OPTIONS for what you can play. it’s up to you how many you think of at any time. If you are confused, reduce the number of option you think of.

    It’s my opinion that people often practice improvising at too fast tempos. By practicing improv SLOW, you can give your ear time to think ahead AND hear more. I try to get students to do this. After a period of time, they often see much better results. The OP may want to try that.

  10. #9

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    Yeah, there are at least a couple of ways to think about this:

    1. An analytical approach up front. Understand it before you practice it.

    OR

    2:
    • Get down to business nailing 15-20 of the best sounding II-V patterns that appeal to you, with a good deal of them stolen directly from great players solos. Practice them around the circle of fifths and descending by major 2nd etc. (Imitate).
    • Then return to more in-depth studies looking to further build II-V skills. (Assimilate)


    After all, they take a while to get down and you'll need more than one fingering for them.

  11. #10

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    Ok I don’t know Fareed’s approach but by the sound of it it’s what I would think of as quite traditional for jazz guitar...

    So we may think of additional or substitute chords on a progression. For example we might play

    Fmaj7 Db7 | Em7

    instead of Dm7 G7 | Cmaj7

    So this is a harmony based system; albeit one based on a number of practical rules of thumb (that can later be contextualised with theory if required). I think this is very guitaristic. We think chordally, shapes. We can add in scales and so on as structures around chords. So I think this is accessible for a guitarist newcomer, and what I think I end up teaching the most. It's also a tight fit for a 'CAGED' approach to mapping the fretboard.

    The more time you have on a chord, the more subs you can explore.

    So Barry’s approach is to fold all of the options into scales; generally dominant (mixolydian) and ‘important’ minor (minor 6-dim, similar to melodic minor) and generate harmony as a by product of melody. So instead of thinking Fmaj7 we instead think ‘the chord of the 7th on G7’ (chord is Barry shorthand for a four note grouping in thirds.) In this way we have all the options although the chord progression we actually think about can be very simple; three chords for a blues or rhythm changes 'A'....

    So, Barry's classes are him specifying recipes through the scale to make up lines. Often very rapid fire! I would say in Barry's system the language and melody is very much foregrounded and the harmony is often emergent from that.

    This is very piano to me - scales make more sense on the piano immediately than they do on guitar. I would actually advise working on Barry’s stuff at piano, if even a little bit, as well as on guitar. (I’m no kind of pianist btw.)

    This may remind you a little of chord scale theory; and it's not unlike CST in some respects. I would say the main difference is that CST's fundamental tenet is that 'scales and chords are two sides of the same coin' ; so for every chord there is a scale and vice versa, and we relate one to the other and seeks to place pitch choices at least mostly in a vertical context against the chord of the moment.

    In contrast Barry downplays the importance of understanding everything in favour of making music, and improvisation scalar ideas can often 'clash' with the chords they are placed over - as is the case with real world jazz lines by the masters.

    For instance, the 'chord of the seventh' of the tritone sub - Db7 in this case - will be a Bmaj7 on G7. (Barry notes the F# against the G7 in his DVD.)

    In practice there ends up being a lot of overlap; and in some ways its different routes up the mountain.

    However, as a chord sub guy initially, I found the chord approach unsatisfying with respect to Bird and Bud's lines and Barry Harris's approach matched that language better; which is no surprise really given that's what Barry was obsessed by. The chord approach on the other hand lines up well with many of the greats of straightahead jazz guitar such as Charlie Christian, Herb Ellis, Wes, Joe Pass, George Benson and so on.

    So, in general a common theme with all experienced improvisers is that they all 'chunk harmony' and simplify things only to reintroduce complexity. So, for instance, most pros will 'chunk' ii-V together, reading, hearing and improvising.
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-20-2020 at 08:38 AM.

  12. #11

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    Furthermore I would say Chris is great at clearly presenting the material that Barry teaches (one reason I stopped doing this myself is because he is so much better at it), but you need to check out the way Barry teaches it, because that's often overlooked. The speed thing is key; you are aiming to hear fast and improvise in real time, so Barry workshops everything at upwards of 200bpm.

    The Howard Rees produced Barry DVD's aim to replicate this experience.

    Barry is also doing live stream teaching, but I find the pace a lot more relaxed as he has to go through all the players one by one on Zoom instead of just getting everyone to play tutti unison. (But the unison thing allows players to join in as much or as little as they want without embarrassment.)

    In class it can feel like its all whooshing over you head at first. That's OK - you are going to get entirely roasted first session and this is a Good Thing. Even if you can hear one line of it, and learn that, it's honest. It's also the best training if you can hang on in there. Steal what you can, and work on what you need to. (I remember having to go home the first time and practice my scales for a year before his next visit, just so I could do the scale outlines at his tempo!) Eventually you will be able to keep up better and better.

    You can also try listening to and playing back phrases at tempo from recordings. Dexter Gordon is a good one to start this with as he phrases in very clear 8th notes; resist the temptation to slow down recordings (and don't necessarily aim for perfection) if you are interested in working on this type of hearing.

  13. #12

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    I couldn't add anything to Christian's well thought-out post but let me ask you a question:

    Are you talking about comping or soloing?

    When comping, you may add any number of substitutions to add colour. When soloing, it may be easier to conceptually group together some chords as "one long V".

    Historically, Bebop and all the modern jazz that evolved from it came from substituting chords; but then the material they started out with was comparatively unsophisticated - like, "Whispering" starts with two bars of the same chord; "Groovin' High" has three or four chords in the same two bars. Beboppers came to substitute the chords in the accompaniment to match the extensions they were playing in their solos - at least, that what Dizzy Gillespie says in his autobiography. OTOH Dizzy came up with the melody notes by studying the chords at the piano.

    Finally, here are some great ii-V exercises: https://jasonlyonjazz.wordpress.com/...ion-exercises/

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    I couldn't add anything to Christian's well thought-out post but let me ask you a question:

    Are you talking about comping or soloing?

    When comping, you may add any number of substitutions to add colour. When soloing, it may be easier to conceptually group together some chords as "one long V".

    Historically, Bebop and all the modern jazz that evolved from it came from substituting chords; but then the material they started out with was comparatively unsophisticated - like, "Whispering" starts with two bars of the same chord; "Groovin' High" has three or four chords in the same two bars. Beboppers came to substitute the chords in the accompaniment to match the extensions they were playing in their solos - at least, that what Dizzy Gillespie says in his autobiography. OTOH Dizzy came up with the melody notes by studying the chords at the piano.

    Finally, here are some great ii-V exercises: Bebop Part I – Perpetual Motion Exercises | Jason Lyon on Music
    I'm talking about soloing. BUT - you would certainly get some benefit out of chucking together bits of chordal voice leading as II-V's for example. I mean, just go listen to Wes for that right?

    According to Barry, Parker would solo on Whisperin' - the rhythm section comps Groovin' High, if that makes any sense. So Eb D7 on Eb Am7 D7.

    The melody of that tune is like the ur-II V lick! Transposed exactly over each one. Like a guitar player would do haha.

    Barry doesn't talk about extensions all that much. He'd rather you called a note a 2 or a 4 than a 9 or 11. It all comes out of the scales for him. Obviously, you could also understand some bop lines as extended chords. I think this may have been more common with guitar players, maybe Dizzy saw it that way more.

    The ii-V thing aside, most bop comping (Monk and Bud) voicings are pretty straightforward and represents a development of stride piano - 10ths, 6ths, shell voicings using 1, 3, 6 maybe 7 on dominant chords, b5s for colour.

    Of course Barry has his own thing for chords based on his eight note scale derived from block chord approaches, but I'll often hear him play a simple 7th or shell in the left hand.

    Comping becomes a bit more complex in the 60s and we get into the chord/scale thing and pianist playing hands together more.

  15. #14

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    My question was actually aimed at the OP but thank you for the elaboration.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    My question was actually aimed at the OP but thank you for the elaboration.
    Haha yeah I realised that after I posted it.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petimar
    By the way, his name is Chris Parks, and the YouTube videos are ‘Things I’ve Learned From Barry Harris’. What a terrific series it is! ...

    It’s my opinion that people often practice improvising at too fast tempos. By practicing improv SLOW, you can give your ear time to think ahead AND hear more. I try to get students to do this. After a period of time, they often see much better results. The OP may want to try that.
    Thank you for the correction. And yes, it is a terrific series. I've taken copious notes of each episode and refer to them regularly for practice ideas and reminders. As such I should honor Chris with his proper surname - Mr. Parks!

    And I'm a big believer in practicing everything in life slowly enough to allow thoughtful integration to seep in. Doing anything faster than one's current skill level permits simply teaches one how to do something poorly.

    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    My question was actually aimed at the OP but thank you for the elaboration.
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Haha yeah I realised that after I posted it.
    [smirk] Okay then, as the OP, I'll answer your question concisely: "Yes."

    Like most of us, I'm working on chord passages (comping/walking bass styles) and I'm also working on solo lines. ;-)

    And so the distinction you draw (between when it's hip to add more chordal textures vs when it's useful to simplify things) seems spot on.

    Many thanks to all who've replied thus far and shared helpful ideas. Continuing to learn as I go.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWatt
    Thank you for the correction. And yes, it is a terrific series. I've taken copious notes of each episode and refer to them regularly for practice ideas and reminders. As such I should honor Chris with his proper surname - Mr. Parks!

    And I'm a big believer in practicing everything in life slowly enough to allow thoughtful integration to seep in. Doing anything faster than one's current skill level permits simply teaches one how to do something poorly.
    Well you will probably think I’m nuts, but I’ve come to appreciate the value of nurturing fluency and flexibility in teaching music over mere accuracy.

    Actually of all levels, even beginners.

    Everything Barry does is for a reason as contradictory to other teachers or counterintuitive it might seem at first.

    It’s actually ok to sacrifice a little perfection and accuracy sometimes in order to get the student used to music as it actually is, and that’s often that you feel put on the spot; you don’t always have the chance to practice everything you do slowly, and playing at tempo is a profoundly different psychology than going over something slow.

    Also, hearing fast helps you play fast. Audiation of lines at tempo is just as important as working out every pitch exactly, especially in a music as rhythmic as bop. Once you are reasonably confident at playing lines by ear, and have reasonable technique, I think it’s important to resist the temptation to slow down recordings unless you absolutely have to; in the days of 78s slowing down the record also dropped the pitch so this was only used on particularly fast double time passages and so on. Barry also learned by sitting behind the piano player at gigs and watching their hands. If you want to be a sharp musician you need to practice being sharp.

    (Musicologist Paul Berliner calls this type of real time ear learning ‘shadowing’ and points out that the masters could play a millisecond behind you and play what you play almost AS you play it. If you want to understand more about Barry’s approach I suggest checking out the relevant chapters of his book Thinking in Jazz.)

    So Barry’s teaching simulates the bandstand to some extent. As Pasquale Grasso puts it, if you don’t practice at 320 bpm, you aren’t going to be able to play at 320 bpm.

    Others may disagree, but I don’t recommend Barry Harris for starting jazz improvisers and I find his teaching doesn’t work unless players already have a strong command of the instrument; so I would suggest as preparatory work making sure you can run scale outlines for common bebop standards at bop tempos (200 at least). I imagine Chris will probably have a video on this, can’t remember if I’ve seen one.

    If you want to practice SLOW though; I would advise checking out the Lennie Tristano discipline of improvising in 8th notes at 60-80bpm. In its own way it’s just as hard!

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    but you need to check out the way Barry teaches it, because that's often overlooked. The speed thing is key; you are aiming to hear fast and improvise in real time, so Barry workshops everything at upwards of 200bpm.
    This is incorrect and not helpful to the OP.

    While Dr. Harris is quick to point out that "we play in eighth notes" this is a measure of delineation not a tempo demand.

    I would even go so far as to say that he would prefer something pretty @ 50 bpm then something model @ 200 bpm.

    Speed is a distraction not a "key" or we would all be following Eddie to the grave.

  20. #19

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    For example


    make sure you play in different positions and octaves.

    Just this kept me going for some time, but I am quite dull at music.

  21. #20

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    @christianm77 Fair enough. I certainly respect your point of view.

    But diffrn't strokes...

    It's evident to me that any ability I enjoy in playing other instruments (piano, organ+footwork, various other stringed instruments, woodwinds and drums) has benefited immensely from an initial slow/deliberate pace. Once a reasonably accurate technique is established as a foundation, I then pick up the pace. Mind first. Hands second.

    I've found the other way 'round (speed first, hoping my mind catches up) has reliably produced sloppy crap from which recovery takes extra effort to undo, if ever possible.

    On a separate but related note, I've practiced tai chi daily for decades. The slower the better. And yes, the slower the harder.

    Cheers.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWatt
    @christianm77 Fair enough. I certainly respect your point of view.

    But diffrn't strokes...

    It's evident to me that any ability I enjoy in playing other instruments (piano, organ+footwork, various other stringed instruments, woodwinds and drums) has benefited immensely from an initial slow/deliberate pace. Once a reasonably accurate technique is established as a foundation, I then pick up the pace. Mind first. Hands second.

    I've found the other way 'round (speed first, hoping my mind catches up) has reliably produced sloppy crap from which recovery takes extra effort to undo, if ever possible.

    On a separate but related note, I've practiced tai chi daily for decades. The slower the better. And yes, the slower the harder.

    Cheers.
    Well it’s not really my opinion on this that matters lol, and why would you give a shit about it?

    Instead I’m trying to my best representation of Barry’s approach based on my experiences in his classes, what he has said and what I have read and heard from his other students. It’s a very specific thing and I think the way he teaches is a big part of what he does. Berliner really covers it best I think, his book is wonderful I can’t recommend enough.

    But then there’s lots of people sort of taking elements of it they like and doing their own thing, and I think that’s cool too. (But I do like Barry’s approach to teaching which is a profoundly different learning model to the typical ones we encounter, and it’s taken me a long time to see its wisdom.)

    If you would prefer slow and meditative approaches to developing improvisation, I honestly think you might get a lot out of this book
    A Jazz Life, a book by John Klopotowski | Jazz Guitar | Warne Marsh

    However, there is also a meditative state to be found in doing things fast. in this case it is mind first in exactly the same way. And that is why you need to have a really strong command of your instrument, scales and so on before starting with Barry.

    If you are somewhat over on one side - fast or slow, it might be good to balance your Yin and Yang a little so to speak with the other thing....

    (Speaking of which I haven’t practiced slow improv for ages...)

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Well it’s not really my opinion on this that matters lol, and why would you give a shit about it? ...
    Because you've taken time to offer thoughtful perspectives based on your considerable experience. That's why.

    And I thank you.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWatt
    Because you've taken time to offer thoughtful perspectives based on your considerable experience. That's why.

    And I thank you.
    Well you are welcome; but when it comes down to it the way Barry teaches is not the way I would teach, even. (I don't think I have any 'method' be it Barry's or my own - I just try and teach the student in front of me.)

    And while 5 years ago I was very much doing the Barry thing, these days I've taken what I felt I needed from him and touch base from time to time. Which is not to say I've 'mastered it' in any way lol.

    Becoming a really good bop player can easily eat up a life, and not everyone wants to reach the pinnacle of that classical language. But I've certainly found Barry's work invaluable for equipping me with a working knowledge of bop vocabulary without resorting to lick based approaches.

    So aside from the specifics what I do think is there is a tendency in our culture to overvalue the 'what' over the 'how'; how the information is communicated is at least as important as what it is. At first I just thought him incredibly old fashioned, a bad teacher even. It took me a while to realise what Barry is actually doing is to some extent replicating the way he learned, and the way he taught of course back in Detroit where he grew up with all those luminaries, many of whom credit his teaching. So I feel I'd be doing his work a violence if I took the 'what' away from the 'how.' But, I am a student educationalist so it's no surprise that these things would interest me in particular....

    Ultimately, Barry is a living legend to whom aspiring jazzers beat a path, surrounded by a circle of devotees; his students are pretty much self selecting. Many people show up to Barry's classes and find them utterly alienating and unhelpful; certainly his model of teaching doesn't look like any modern model of education informed by developments of teaching practice and theory of the past 50 years, or those used to organised and progressive curricula. But there is a very serious method in it; and I don't think everyone gets that. Everything has been thought out.

    Which is not to say that this is the only way of doing things.

  25. #24

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    Haha very good L...

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Yes .... But how did that Tai Chi work out for you in a fight?
    Worked beautifully. Albeit slowly ;-)