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  1. #1

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    I was playing over C Jam Blues by Duke E.
    I didn't understand in what key it was, but c minor pent sounds good and pretty logical. I don't know the original melody, so i have to guess.

    A few question:
    is it in a key? Since c7 and f7 and g7 don't share the same major key (F Bb and C).
    why does c minor pent sound good? this scale doesn't hit all the 'right' notes (the e of c7, the b of g7, i see i use them chromatic))

    I am able to improvise with no trouble over this tune, but i don't seem to understand what it is i am doing. And what am i missing?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    C7, F7 and G7 are just the chords of C blues (I7, IV7, V7). C minor Pentatonic is what every guitar player learns to play over that change when they first pickup the guitar. The notes of the minor pentatonic alternate between being the chord tones and blue notes over the chords.

    Say the minor 3rd (Eb) is the blue 3d over C7, b7 over F7 and b6 (an altered note) over G7alt before it resolves back to tonic.

  4. #3

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    But using the minor pentatonic is really just basic blues rather than jazz, and it's a jazz tune. Better listen to how jazz players play it!


  5. #4

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    i see what you mean. That was precisely my question. What am i missing.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A

    is it in a key?

    Since c7 and f7 and g7 don't share the same major key (F Bb and C).
    why does c minor pent sound good? this scale doesn't hit all the 'right' notes (the e of c7, the b of g7, i see i use them chromatic))

    I am able to improvise with no trouble over this tune, but i don't seem to understand what it is i am doing. And what am i missing?
    It's in C. The key signature is usually taken from the I chord.

    Originally the blues was probably just three major chords - C, F and G. A lot of players still play the major scale over the I chord. But, to incorporate the 'blue' sound made by vocalists, they introduced dominant chords, so C7, F7 and G7.

    They realised you could play the minor pentatonic over all those three chords and it would sound good, very bluesy, but it was a bit basic for playing better tunes. Of course in a ballad you can use the C major scale over all the three major chords but it doesn't sound quite right over the dominant chords.

    So they normally use three mixolydian scales. That's the major scale with the 7th note flattened. So C major becomes C D E F G A Bb C. Likewise with F and G. F mixo would be F G A Bb C D Eb F and G mixo would be G A B C D E F G.

    That's what you're not using. But they also put in bits of the minor pentatonic too so most blues is played with all those scales. Using the mixo scales isn't as difficult as it sounds because one normally uses standard licks to get it to sound right.

    It got a bit more complicated than that because then they found interesting ways to join up the chords, especially going from bar 4 to 5. There you can use diminished or altered scales for a good effect... and so it goes on. Once you get into this kind of playing you'll discover all this.

    You might be interested in this which I did for someone else a while back. The chords are the three dominants on a backing track in E. I started it just using the E major scale, which sounds quite nice, and gradually added blues sounds. But it's not a jazz blues. That usually has a different set of chords. And a different style.


  7. #6

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    Are you sure about e major? C- pent is like eb major.

  8. #7

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    The soundclip is in E, not C. That's why it's called 'E blues'.

    C minor pentatonic and Eb major pentatonic share the same notes.

    Start at the beginning, Marcel. There are lessons everywhere.

  9. #8

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    I think you are mistaken.

  10. #9

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    The A ' blues scale ' also sounds pretty funky over those chords . A C D Eb E G

  11. #10

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    Damn that Ellington clip is superb . Note how most of the soloists either use the major scale or proper blues phraseology , none of them are running chords or chord scales .

  12. #11

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    There's more to musical life than the pentatonic scale but that thing has more lives than a cat.
    One thing you can do is change a single note of the scale for various chords.

    Cm Pentatonic is C Eb F G Bb

    Over the G7 you can slide that Bb up to B, the 3rd of G7.
    Over the F7 you can slide Bb down to A, the 3rd of F7. (Or just slide G or Ab up to A)

    Hardly revelatory, but the concept of changing just one note of minor (or major) pentatonic scale to go along with the changes works well.

    You can also use the dominant pentatonic scale. (It's a mixolydian scale minus the 4th and 6th.) For C7 that would be C D E G Bb. This is very major sounding but you have the flat 7th too. The 9th (or 2nd) is usually emphasized.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pycroft
    Damn that Ellington clip is superb . Note how most of the soloists either use the major scale or proper blues phraseology , none of them are running chords or chord scales .
    Blue notes were killed by Bmelmin and Abaugmaj, warlords of Super Locria.

  14. #13

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    Check this out:


  15. #14

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    Oke, so because the C, G and F are all major chords in the key of C major, i can aproche this with C major.
    I did that and it invites me to play more like traditional jazz.
    Nice. Somebody pointed me towards major pentatonics, wich helps to be more melodic.
    Last edited by Marcel_A; 10-14-2020 at 11:54 AM.