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  1. #1

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    I was making an improvisation . One guy told me that the 0:19 is not correct because is not connected to the next phrase. I still can't see it.
    Maybe its about taste? Do you agree is not a correct chord for that moment of the music?



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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Slow it right down. I mean, right down.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by fingernylon
    I was making an improvisation . One guy told me that the 0:19 is not correct because is not connected to the next phrase. I still can't see it.
    Maybe its about taste? Do you agree is not a correct chord for that moment of the music?


    To me it sounds like it should go to a 7th chord right there and you muffed the change. Is what you played exactly what you intended to play?

  5. #4

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    I dig it. Screw that guy. Critics.


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  6. #5

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    I think you're going on an E descending E, E/D#, E/D THEN C#7 (which is nice), then head back to E, but you briefly revisit C#7. It's all pleasant meanderings. The C#7 is a very nice surprise. It doesn't HAVE to go to an expectant place. Music s all about those little unexpected surprises. I like it. A lot.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Slow it right down. I mean, right down.
    What do u mean? its very slow

  8. #7

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    Hey. Don’t listen to people. Even me now. Just create and share. You have a teacher or someone who you greatly admire who can offer good advice, yeah. Ok. But otherwise people have their own agendas.


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  9. #8

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    If that’s me, not an interpretation of a put down. It’s just I believe creativity should just be that. I know what he did. I stated it. And I think it’s cool. But that’s just me.


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  10. #9
    thanks for listening and the feedback.
    well I mean, i just play by ear, i heard those changes in my head. I m not aware of music theory when im playing, i just play by ear. To me it also sounded fine...i was trying to find why he said it was bad chord...

  11. #10
    my question would be if can you recognize the blue danube theme on the improvisation. I was playing this for lots of guys and i think they couldnt figure out was a blue danube waltz variation. So maybe its just recognizable on my head so this is something i need to fix

  12. #11

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    The thing is, what are you trying to do? are you doing a fast lick with chords in a rhythmic pattern? sounds like that to me, and the point that you were worried about is no less cohesive than the phrase before... to me, it seems showy, and not very clean or lyrical, but good
    (intonation not so much)

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by patshep
    The thing is, what are you trying to do? are you doing a fast lick with chords in a rhythmic pattern? sounds like that to me, and the point that you were worried about is no less cohesive than the phrase before... to me, it seems showy, and not very clean or lyrical, but good
    (intonation not so much)
    iys supposed to be the blue danube waltz main theme. i just complete the chords with phrases related and addind some different passages like that chord sequence i quoted on the description

    but i guess the blue danube is not recognizable...

  14. #13

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    I heard it. I like it!

    just work on polishing it and I think you have something there.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by fingernylon
    One guy told me that the 0:19 is not correct because is not connected to the next phrase. I still can't see it.
    Maybe its about taste? Do you agree is not a correct chord for that moment of the music?
    Sounds fine to me. There's no law that says the harmony in one phrase has to lead into the next. Traditionally the harmony flows within a phrase, ends on a cadence, and the next phrase is a new start, you can modulate to a new key or whatever. If it sounds good to you, go with it. It's good to listen to advice, but feel free to ignore it!

  16. #15

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    That chord is totally fine.

    I'm pretty sure I'd know it was a variation on "Danube" without you telling me...I'm guessing it was one of the "many notes are bad" internet guys looking for a way to rag on you (though I do think you can space the whole thing out a bit more, since you're going rubato)

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by fingernylon
    thanks for listening and the feedback.
    well I mean, i just play by ear, i heard those changes in my head. I m not aware of music theory when im playing, i just play by ear. To me it also sounded fine...i was trying to find why he said it was bad chord...
    That's totally fine. It sounds great. You gotta be careful with no-it-alls on the internet.

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    That's totally fine. It sounds great. You gotta be careful with no-it-alls on the internet.
    yes the problem is that this guy is not a random guy , he really understands about music and has deep studies. he is my teacher and he is not gonna try to put me down, he liked a lot the recording and my phrases but he pointed this out as a mistake that i still cant understand

    may i ask you if you could recognize the blue danube in my improvisation?

  19. #18

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    If something sounds good to you do it no matter what it sounds like to others.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by fingernylon
    yes the problem is that this guy is not a random guy , he really understands about music and has deep studies. he is my teacher and he is not gonna try to put me down, he liked a lot the recording and my phrases but he pointed this out as a mistake that i still cant understand

    may i ask you if you could recognize the blue danube in my improvisation?
    I wonder if this is really just a lack of communication between your teacher and yourself. E.g. did he really use the terms "wrong" or "mistake"? I know my teacher would never use those terms (since they communicate next-to-nothing).

    Instead my teacher would say something like: did you intent to play that chord in bar 7? E.g. when I play a different chord than what is listed on the lead-sheet music he provided me.

    My point being: ask your teacher more questions.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by fingernylon
    yes the problem is that this guy is not a random guy , he really understands about music and has deep studies. he is my teacher and he is not gonna try to put me down, he liked a lot the recording and my phrases but he pointed this out as a mistake that i still cant understand

    may i ask you if you could recognize the blue danube in my improvisation?
    Thant's great. Except that the chord is not wrong.

  22. #21

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    I think it's totally recognizable and quite charming. This is a bit trickier than it seems at first, but the sooner you start working on it the better: don't listen to the critics.

  23. #22

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    It's fully possible that, since, the whole of that improvisation is diatonic to E major, that the sudden introduction of a C#7 is incongruous. This isn't a jazz piece, it's not a Wayne Shorter number, it's not full of interesting jazz sounds. The Blue Danube is a straightforward waltz and the improvisation is virtually classical.

    If this is that teacher's view I can see the point. I also appreciate that, for jazz players, any sound is good. No wrong notes, and so on. It's part of the creed and I'd subscribe to it myself.

    But, as I say, this isn't jazz as such. I don't even think it's meant to be, either. A C#7 can be introduced in E major but it would have to resolve properly, like going, say, to F# minor. And from there through B7 back to E. That could be done skilfully and would probably add to the interest.

    The question I'd ask is whether this was the intention or did the OP just play it inadvertently? I'm not sure he's answered that succinctly yet. I suspect it just came out.

    So, if he's happy with it, I suppose he can disregard the teacher. But it might be better - as he has a teacher - to explain his position to him and see what he says.

  24. #23

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    Incidentally, while we're at it, it's not true that there are no wrong notes. Sounds very good, but there are wrong notes. There are notes, even in a complex jazz piece, that simply clash and just sound definitely 'wrong' to the ear. They're not interesting sounds over a particular harmony, they just sound like unskilled mistakes.

    The idea of no wrong notes is often attributed to Miles Davis but that's basically inaccurate. The actual quote is:

    'There are no wrong notes in jazz: only notes in the wrong places'

    Bill Evans said:

    'There are no wrong notes, only wrong resolutions'

    And good old (Toot) Monk said:

    'I played the wrong, wrong notes'

    Which I think is hilarious :-)

    There's no such thing as a wrong note — Musespeak

  25. #24

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    I've just played this and revised my opinion somewhat about the C#7. It fits but not quite.

    You can fit a C#7 into the arrangement in the second section. In fact, it's quite nice:

    E7 - % - % - %
    A - % - C#7 - F#m
    B7 - % - E - %
    F#m - B7 - E - %

    BUT it clashes with the melody which begins in the C#7 bar with an F# (definitely a wrong note). But if you change it to an F then it fits.

    This is in C. Anyone for a twirl?



    Incidentally, although this idea works up to a point I don't think it's necessary.
    Last edited by ragman1; 10-03-2020 at 01:34 PM.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by fingernylon
    I was making an improvisation . One guy told me that the 0:19 is not correct because is not connected to the next phrase. I still can't see it.
    Maybe its about taste? Do you agree is not a correct chord for that moment of the music?


    "One guy told me that the 0:19 is not correct because is not connected to the next phrase. I still can't see it."
    ...and I think he was right.
    My suggestion is that you have to practise more correct-maybe try play with metronome for example.You have to keep the form of the song in your head.
    After that you can play your own style with rubatos and more free .You wil feel more comfortable about this song.
    May be this help.
    Best
    Kris

  27. #26

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    Timing. You seem to roll great licks, then have a 8th note pauze before you hit the chord. Also maybe your licks may need evening out of the timing. Chords are no issue at all to me. I will never be able to play those licks btw.


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  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    I think it's totally recognizable and quite charming. This is a bit trickier than it seems at first, but the sooner you start working on it the better: don't listen to the critics.
    Uh, in this case his critic was his guitar teacher. Not a good investment to pay someone for lessons and then not listen to them.

    This is why the advise I gave was for him to ask his teacher to provide more info.

  29. #28

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    Ok... your advise is better than mine. I liked what he did and just wanted to encourage him. You're right, he could ask the critic to explain or offer the 'right' alternative. Trusting your own ears isn't bad advice though.

  30. #29

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    I actually really liked it.

  31. #30

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    Don’t see anything wrong with your playing. It is so melodic and chromatically interesting.
    it’s clear you have quite the ear and the chops to match. Great playing. I think your harmonic choices are elaborate and include chromaticism, constant structures and a daft use of the diminished chord.
    And if that’s wrong, I dont wanna be right.

  32. #31
    hi , thanks for the comments, i found one possible solution for that chord sequence and i will post it as soon as possible,
    but i have a question, i made this

    https://vocaroo.com/kvJWYddTwi9

    i was practicing some phrases, but then i started to improvise. i think the music starts from min 0:30
    i dont like that the rythm of the chords is very predictable in the beginning till min 1. But my question is if the music i play in the recording has a structure or not?

  33. #32

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    my question is if the music i play in the recording has a structure or not?
    This is getting absurd! You tell us, you know what you were playing!

    If you really don't know whether it has a structure then it hasn't, obviously. If you were playing a set tune then it has a structure. If you were just noodling around then it doesn't.

    I'd like to hear you play a proper tune with a beginning, middle and end, in a properly rhythmical way. When the melody is over then improvise to your heart's content - but make sure you're following the structure of the tune. That's what jazz players do - but you're not playing jazz. What you're doing is obviously classical.

  34. #33

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    The chord kind of turns Blue Danube into a Blues piece at that point. It is incorrect as it was written that's for sure. Sounds like it's leading somewhere else.

  35. #34

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    Listen to my sound clip in post #24. It's not blues, it's a leading chord into the minor. It's okay providing the melody is adjusted to it. It would be more like blues if it went to a dominant (C#7-F#7-B7-E).

    Which I suppose it could be if one was so inclined. It would probably mean jazzing the entire tune up, though :-)

  36. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by bobby d
    The chord kind of turns Blue Danube into a Blues piece at that point. It is incorrect as it was written that's for sure. Sounds like it's leading somewhere else.
    Well to my ears now sound incorrect and found a better chord. But i dont think to turn some classical music into other genre Is necessary wrong. I believe in freedom for create

  37. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    This is getting absurd! You tell us, you know what you were playing!

    If you really don't know whether it has a structure then it hasn't, obviously. If you were playing a set tune then it has a structure. If you were just noodling around then it doesn't.

    I'd like to hear you play a proper tune with a beginning, middle and end, in a properly rhythmical way. When the melody is over then improvise to your heart's content - but make sure you're following the structure of the tune. That's what jazz players do - but you're not playing jazz. What you're doing is obviously classical.
    Please chill.
    Why absurd? Even an new improvisation can follow a structure or at least some. I Made some impro long Time and people complaint on lack of structure that's why i asked. Cause maybe now it has a More recognizable

  38. #37
    You say i play classical music? I'm which recording the blue danube ir the improvisation?
    If it's the improvisation i dont understand why you say it's classical music lol...

    I think even the first one has some jazz flavour

  39. #38

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    This is jazz. When you understand these harmonies then you can play jazz. What you're doing at the moment isn't jazz. Jazz is difficult and you have to study it.


  40. #39
    So what style or genre Is it in your opinion

  41. #40

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    It's jazz. That's why they're called the European Jazz Trio. They play jazz.

    By the way, I meant to say this before. Blue Danube is a really terrible choice to turn into jazz unless you're as skilled as the EJT. It's endless bars of C and G7. To think of chordal substitutions is pretty difficult. Also it's a waltz which is a lot trickier than 4/4 unless you're used to it.

    If you want to get jazzy, why don't you try a jazz tune like Autumn Leaves or something like that? You couldn't just play one major scale over that, you'd actually have to think a bit :-)

  42. #41
    No i meant what i plaid in both recordings. The first of blue danube and this one
    Vocaroo | Online voice recorder

  43. #42

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    It's not jazz, fingernylon. If you don't see that, too bad.

  44. #43

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    This is jazz on a classic guitar. It's pretty good too.


  45. #44
    yes ok not jazz, but what is it?

  46. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    This is jazz on a classic guitar. It's pretty good too.

    thanks for this, i really liked it. his tone and the ideas,

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by fingernylon
    yes ok not jazz, but what is it?
    It's basically classical, isn't it? It's not folk or blues or some other obvious genre. It's based on the major scale, there is no jazz vocabulary in it, and - to be straightforward about it - it sounds like classical guitar music sounds. It may not be a composed piece and you may be improvising something but that only means you're just playing whatever you want at the time.

    Like I said, if you want to play jazz, play a jazz tune. Then you can rightly say it's jazz. I mean, you obviously have the technique, why not apply it properly?

    Glad you liked the video. I did too.

  48. #47
    I understand your point

    So this Is a versión of sophisticated lady. So you think Is jazz? The theme Is from jazz repertoire but it sounds More like classical because of the melodies and also it doesn't have swing feel right?

  49. #48

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    Well, I can't argue that the song isn't a jazz tune but there's no gypsy band and no swing. What they're doing is called rubato. But Stephane Grappelli used that kind of violin playing a lot and he was definitely a jazz player.

    Violin playing, of course, isn't the same sound as saxophone or guitar. Even when they play bebop it sounds a bit classical!


  50. #49

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    But I found this which I like. Definitely not classical!


  51. #50
    Yes i see and understand your point. So rubato Is itself classical music? I dont understand what you mean by rubato. Other guy also said that what i am doing Is rubato. According to dictionary rubato means to slow down or speed up a tune with expressive functions
    The oleo stuff started great but turned very repetitive so couldn't end lol