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I bought this book last week and started working through some of the ideas and it seems to be a pretty interesting resource. Was wondering if anyone else has used this and their feelings about it.
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01-27-2010 09:57 AM
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I've got it, and it was the supposed textbook for a studio class I was enrolled in last semester, but we never really covered much from it. It has some interesting ideas, but the text itself is in desperate need of an editor. It's hard for me to read because of all the typos, sentence fragments, and overall meandering thought process of the author.
I also remember being a little confused by exactly what it was that I was supposed to be doing after reading a section. Where are the exercises?
Again, just my first impressions - I have only read the first few chapters, and skimmed through most of the rest of it.
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A couple of guys I study with off and on who teach at the university level really recommend this book. I don't have it, but have heard nothing but good things about the content. Interesting to hear about the need for editing.
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I agree the editing is a tad bit sloppy and it can be a little confusing. It's also a little vague on how to apply the ideas. But from what I've gathered so far, the examples are there only to illustrate the concept he's trying to explain in each chapter and not to be practiced. I'm pretty sure he says a few times throughout the book to apply them (the concepts) over changes of tunes you already know. I could be wrong since I haven't gone through the whole thing, but at the end of the day it's an interesting book without the usual play this scale or arp over this change approach.
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I have to say that after spending a few more days applying some of the concepts in this book it's a real a$$kicker. Dropping the quarter note 2 & 4 feel to a half time 1 & 3 pulse has been tricky at first but I already can hear the difference in my own playing and others. I can't recommend this book enough, even if it needs an editor.
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I have over the years read many articles by him....great stuff...
thanks for sharing...
time on our beloved instrument...
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I got the book a few months ago and have been reading on my lunch hour at work and like it. Looking forward to start practicing FM. i think a lot of what he is talking about can be applied to existing practice routine.
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wow now that is confusing !the "one" is the end of the previous bar and not the starting point of the new bar. this is basic forward motion.
Surely the one is the one
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Hi there,
Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar
Thx for the list of names. I'm checking out the Longo stuff, and it appears intriguing.
Pardon my ignorance, but I'm confused as to what would be harmful in knowing what notes go over certain harmonies? I'm not being sarcastic. I just don't get what the opposition is. Are you okay with key-centered approach vs. CST? Btw, I know very little about CST other than the little I've grasped from this forum where people discuss modes.
Thx again
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Hey everybody.
Interesting thread! I bought a copy of "Forward Motion" a while ago and while I love the book, I haven't been abled
to fully understand, let alone incorporate this concepts in my playing.*
I need to take some time in the near future to really try and dig into this.
This thread helped. Thanks everybody!
Also, dortmundjazzguitar, welcome to the forum. From your name I suspect we are "neighbors", no?
(Dortmund and Köln can be considered neighbors in an international forum, I guess
)
Best,
H.
* I have a serious thing for books about music, reading for me is half the fun of the entire endeavor of making music.
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Hmm...interesting discussion. I have not read the respective books cited, but from the direction of the thread, I think I understand something about the "propulsive" nature of forward motion and the importance of rhythmic emphasis over note grouping. I use Sibelius notation software and used to be frustrated when, playing my synth keyboard in real time for note entry, I would find often that Sibelius would notate the "first" note of the next measure as the "last eighth note" of the preceding measure, even when I was trying very hard to play mechanistically 'on the beat' of the metronome.
I think in a way it's a little like explaining how the concept of "swing" is hard to notate. A triplet gets notated as d d d instead of played as d. dd, my odd way here of trying to create notation off a computer keyboard, with d d d indicating a triplet in eighth notes and d. dd as a dotted eighth and two sixteenth notes. It may have something to do with being in the pocket or pushing or slowing the tempo just a bit with rubato. The sense of shuffle type rhythms is entailed as well.
Or have I misinterpreted the discussion?
JayLast edited by targuit; 06-04-2013 at 02:32 AM.
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I have a Skype lesson with him at the end of this month specifically to cover Forward Motion. I am really looking forward to it. He does give Skype lessons on Forward Motion if anyone is interested.
Syllabus | Hal Galper
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I think I just inadvertantly lost my reply to this thread. Very interesting! I'm Rick5's friend who recommended the Longo books. They are great & definitely worth checking out.
I think Glaper & Longo are both trying to alter our perception of rhythm to be more "swing friendly", if you will. For example, thinking "&1&2&3&4" swings harder than "1&2&3&4&" and creates the feeling of forward motion. I think you guys have already pointed this out & I'm just reiterating it a little differently.
Rick, thanks for sending the thread to me. I registered as a member & plan to be here regularly. This is what I miss the most from the "old site".
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I agree 100%, these guys you mentioned are at the cutting edge of jazz education, and I think it's alright because the pendulum has been swinging their way the last few years. These modern methods will likely continue to gain traction and eventually replace the old, outdated Berklee approach developed in the 60's (and hopefully undo a lot of damage along the way). Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar
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I found a lot of good stuff FOR ME in "Forward Motion". I also like Hals YouTube videos.
+1 on the Bert Ligon books as well. "Connecting Chords" was a big eye opener to me. It made me study my transcriptions of Bird and Clifford Brown much closer and get a lot more from them.
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Hal's solo on "Rough House" (cd w/same name) with Sco, Stafford James and Adam Nussbaum transcends any book or video for me. Absolutely smokin'.
Last edited by Eric Rowland; 10-10-2014 at 10:21 PM.
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"An investigation of forward motion as an analytic template by Stephen Brien."
This Masters Thesis might be of interest to some.
An investigation of forward motion as an analytic template
An investigation of forward motion as an analytic template
Hal Galper - Academia.edu
Last edited by GuyBoden; 12-05-2023 at 04:26 PM.
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I have a lot of respect for Hal Galper, but when it comes to "the one" I'm afraid he needs to defer to the undisputed authority on the subject. Originally Posted by pingu
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BS Originally Posted by buduranus2
I have a lot of respect for Hal Galper, but when it comes to "the one" I'm afraid he needs to defer to the undisputed authority on the subject.
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Hal Galper on the Nikhil Hogan Show
and in Conversation with Bob Mover
Those two videos helped me more to understand his concept than the book.
Which he BTW uploaded on academia.edu, so you can download the PDF for free.
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" "one" of the bar is the strongest beat of the bar and as such, is the ultimate resolution beat in the bar. "Resolution" means that something has ended, consequently "one" of the bar is not the first beat of the bar; it is the last beat of the bar." Hal Galper Originally Posted by buduranus2
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Forward Motion is the polite phrase for de-Muzakification. Blues musicians have been ending phrases on the one since forever, perhaps because of the mechanical way pentatonic licks (odd number of five notes) tend to suggest being laid down into the beat... similar to Miles' less mechanical sense of laying down more general licks "end first" or "tail first", stressing the focus on the final resolution at the end of a phrase. One of Blues' singular contributions to Jazz may be resolving phases on the one? Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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This is an example of the logical fallacy "begging the question" in which the conclusion is included as part of the premise. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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From your posts in this thread I get the strong impression that you have not seriously dealt with the matter. Galper's "Forward Motion" concept is no philosophical wanking but comes from the experience amd serious research of a practioner that played in Cannonball's band among others. Originally Posted by buduranus2
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Tbh forward motion is what separates the musical from the non musical. When I’m teaching you can always tell the talented kids because they’ll finish the phrase, not stop at the bar line when you ask them to play bars 4-8, for example …
the good news, is it can be taught.
Anyway, I found the book helpful.
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